Mandatory Mini Camp Practice- 6/14

[mgteich]

so sick of players signing front loaded contracts then being upset at the low salary in the last year. No morals

Yup, the recently invented signing bonus is a real killer.

We have this debate dozens of times every year. Teams must make their decision based on new money required to be paid out, especially obvious for players in the last year of their contract. If Gilmore was awful last year, we would and should cut him if we thought that he wasn't worth the $7M we have to pay him. The bonus money paid 4 years ago is totally irrelevant. Many teams make the mistake of keeping a player too long, and end up with much more dead money than they might have had.

BTW, should the team keep a player for his last year, if he isn't worth the money they have to him? Of course not! But where are the player's rights? Now, we understand. The player tries to get money up front, because he knows that team is under no obligations to keep him.

With top players, the situation is somewhat different. Here, the player thinks that he is worth more than what the team will be paying under the contract for his last year. NOW, everyone is on the side of the team. Surely, it right and just for the team to cut him if they don't like the contract, but should expect the player to play, even if he is worth much more.

But, players have no rights or tools, unless the have negotiated a guaranteed contract. Of course, there will be more and more of these. All a player can do is to threaten to sit out, and then perhaps show up at the last possible moment, before say Game 4.

BOTTOM LINE
I want to see us extend Gilmore.

If not, I want Gilmore to play for his contract amount. I don't see that happening, and I understand why Gilmore will likely not be playing for us under this contract for Game 1. He will likely report before the deadline, so that the year counts, and he is a free agent next year.

The team will simply need to DEAL WITH IT. They have their various choices.

 

[Zuma]

Still June. Thanks for this thread.

 

[rochrist]

and irrational hate towards the man.

There's nothing irrational about not wanting to spend another season watching him killing earthworms and hitting people in the stands with his 'passses'.

 

[jdlboot14]

I'm already pissed at J. Smith. You get paid that much money to come to a new team as the shoe-in co-starter, but you have to play the wussie card and stay away from OTA's until this mandatory one - and you pull your hammy!! Of course you do! Don't you know that all high-paid guys who think they can just show up without offseason work-outs get nagging injuries. I knew one of the big offensive additions this year would be hurt early. I just didn't think it'd start now. Whatever - I hope it's Henry and Asiasi now.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Yeah maybe I'm crazy, but I think at this point losing Gilmore causes far more problems than saving some cap if he slows down solves. Give him a 3 year deal and front load over the first two and make it easy to walk away in the third and hope Bill can find another guy.

I think Bill learned his lesson from 2011 and early 2012 as far as CB's. We went aggressive and got Talib, then Revis, then Butler showed he could be a solid 1 and then we went and gotn Gilmore paid. I don't think Bill is going to leave CB as a question mark position ever again. I think Gilmore stays unless we have an answer at the position. Anyways it was pretty obvious Gilmore wasn't going to play with the money he was making this year.

Agree completely.

Bill can coach up a lot of subpar talent at different positions but at CB this team goes nowhere deep without an elite CB1.

.

 

[jdlboot14]

These numbers should make everybody happy, if that is possible, as Mac Jones is getting just about equal reps.. but then again he should have had more, or so they say..

11v11s
Cam Newton: 5/11
Mac Jones: 6/12
Jarrett Stidham: 6/9
Brian Hoyer: 2/6, INT
7v7s
Cam Newton: 7/9
Mac Jones: 7/8
Jarrett Stidham: 2/6

Meanwhile Jake Bailey had tremendous hang times on his punts..

it's impossible to know yet, and Mac has to beat out a lot more than the other QB's... he has to beat out BB's cemented old-school approach that offensive rookie's barely contribute barring emergency. But, if it's even close between Mac and Cam - I really want Mac to play. There's absolutely nothing to gain by playing Cam for the whole season again. We've seen a lot of rookie QB's playing in year 1 lately, and it's worth getting a start on the 3 year test - if he's going to make it or not. Look at Stid - he's still tagging around, but we have NO IDEA if he's complete garbage or worthwhile backup... because BB was stupid and didn't play him in a worthless year. Cam is NOT a bridge QB, he's a break-glass carryover for an organization worried about its PC image.

 

[patfanken]

Some MMC thoughts

1. I get a big laugh at reporters that give us QB stats in a practice where they are competing against traffic cones.
O
2. On offense all you can take from what the receivers are doing is if they move through their breaks smoothly, are quick/and or fast, and are catching the ball. And here's a clue. NONE of them even make it to a 90 man roster if they don't already have all those skill sets. So until we see them playing against live action in in August we really don't know anything.

4. I would much rather Gilmore showed up for this camp. IMHO he got all but $7MM of his money already and he signed a 5 year contract, not a 4 year one. BUT that being said, this WILL be his last shot at a big money contract, so I can't blame him for taking a shot at it. But here are the decisions that FO need to take into consideration before they give him one.

First and foremost his age. The evidence is just too compelling that shows elite CB's losing their fast balls soon after they reach 30. On the other hand Bill has had some luck with older CB over the years. Also Gilmore is a bigger CB and relies on his size as well as speed and quickness so he might age better than a smaller guy who relied on his quickness and speed lik e a Revis or say JJones.

But here is the thing. Last season when healthy, Gilmore was still an elite CB and I have little doubt he will be the same for THIS year. He is the kind of player that makes life a LOT easier for everyone around him. If he is one the team it will allow them to play predominately man like they have the last few years to great success. Without him they will have to play more zone Playing man allows the team to blitz more. It allows the team to be more flexible in the front 7 to use odd schemes that tend to work well week to week.etc.

So I think the Pats shouldn't cave, but not play hard ball either. Let everyone pretend that he's still rehabbing his quad, and give him another 3-4 MM to get him here for the start of camp and let him test the market next season. Either that or some kind of 3 year extention which is really a 2 year deal and makes cap sense I want him here.

5 It is nice to here that Asisasi looks much more accomplished so far. We didn't invest SO much into Smith and Henry if we didn't plan to use 2 TE's extensively. To do that we need a MINIMUM of 3 quality TE. We NEED a guy like Assiasi not just to make the roster but to be GOOD because just like at RB you need several if you are going to have a good run game, and in a 17 game season the 3rd TE in THIS offense will get plenty of work.

6, Ben Volin and idiotic takes are synonomous Is there any way we could simply delete any tweets or comments by him just so we could lower the combined blood pressure of members.

 

[rochrist]

Some MMC thoughts

1. I get a big laugh at reporters that give us QB stats in a practice where they are competing against traffic cones.

Sure. Which makes Cam airmailing passes 10 feet over the receiver's head all the more damning.

 

[reflexblue]

Jesus Mary and Joseph...

Thats what my mother would say

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Some MMC thoughts

1. I get a big laugh at reporters that give us QB stats in a practice where they are competing against traffic cones.

5 It is nice to here that Asisasi looks much more accomplished so far. We didn't invest SO much into Smith and Henry if we didn't plan to use 2 TE's extensively. To do that we need a MINIMUM of 3 quality TE. We NEED a guy like Assiasi not just to make the roster but to be GOOD because just like at RB you need several if you are going to have a good run game, and in a 17 game season the 3rd TE in THIS offense will get plenty of work.

Cam was 5 for 11 against the traffic cones. Do you still think the stat is meaningless?

If we are going to routinely run a two TE formation we might need four TEs, and maybe one less WR, on the 53.

 

[Boomer B]

Idk if Mac can compete with cam after this pass

 

[VectorPrime]

If you’re overthrowing passes that bad up against no defense then I don’t know what to even say.

 

[mgteich]

So I think the Pats shouldn't cave, but not play hard ball either. Let everyone pretend that he's still rehabbing his quad, and give him another 3-4 MM to get him here for the start of camp and let him test the market next season. Either that or some kind of 3 year extention which is really a 2 year deal and makes cap sense I want him here.

We've been here with other players. Posters want a two year deal at cap friendly numbers, and the player want his last big contract over 4 years, including the current one.

Gilmore is one of the top CB's in the NFL. He won't, and shouldn't be interested in cap friendly short term deals. Maybe we can get him to sign a new 2021 contract for $3M more with a no franchise, and no trade clause. Then he can get his big market contract next year from someone else.

Personally, I would like us to sign a 3 year extension now, at what we would expect him to be signed for in free agency. There can be an effect on the 2021 cap, or not.

The team has choices.

 

[mgteich]

.

5 It is nice to here that Asisasi looks much more accomplished so far. We didn't invest SO much into Smith and Henry if we didn't plan to use 2 TE's extensively. To do that we need a MINIMUM of 3 quality TE. We NEED a guy like Assiasi not just to make the roster but to be GOOD because just like at RB you need several if you are going to have a good run game, and in a 17 game season the 3rd TE in THIS offense will get plenty of work.

Asiasi seems to have cemented a spot already. Of course, a 3rd rounder from last year is normally a lock.

 

[Zuma]

Supposedly there was a drill for throwing high and making the WR go and get it. I dont know if that was a joke or not. I feel like a boomer.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Damn, what’s the scouting report on this guy???? That form/technique & release point is #1 pick worthy! My only question is, why are they still throwing, while up ten in the forth???…

I guess Newton watched to much film on BB throwing last season

 

[Hawaiianpatsfan2]

Extending Gilmore is tricky. Press man CBs fall off quick:

• Revis’ game fell off at 30 & was toast by 31
• Talib went from a probowler at 31 to ineffective at 32/33 (Edelman SB)
• Chris Harris, Jr. was a shell of himself at 31 last year
• Sherman couldn’t cover Watkins at 31 in the SB & spent most of last season on the sidelines

Gilmore & those four are the best CBs of the decade. They probably should give him a pay bump & then let him walk.

don’t forget Patrick P. Pretty much same story

 

[PScottman]

irrational hate

Irrational would be if he was near the top of league in passing TDs, accuracy, QBR, wins, etc getting this type of comment. Rationality indicates underlying corroborating empirical data demonstrating that a player in a certain role (QB) is not particularly skilled in the necessary attributes of said role. He's a great runner and a good teammate. Those can both be true and rational while still saying he is at this point in his career a bottom third NFL QB.

 

[DarrylS]

Some MMC thoughts

1. I get a big laugh at reporters that give us QB stats in a practice where they are competing against traffic cones.

Completely agree, my previous comments had to do with previous conniption fits by Pats Fans Posters when during OTA's Newton had more reps at QB than Jones.. for any rookie, no matter how great they are, this is about learning a new system on the big stage against the backdrop of BB & crew figuring out how good these new guys are and how well they fit this system.

 

[borisman]

Agreed. The time to move Gilmore was last year ….now he’s playing for his next contract which is definitely good for us because he has to play his ass off but we get no compensation when he walks end of year

I have yet to read the rest of this thread so this may have been pointed out already but .....why not?
We have Gilmore, Brown, JC Jackson and Phillips as FA's next year, along with High and McC (Dev aint going anywhere) so they're comp pick eligible. And it's not a given that we'll sign any FA's that will cancel them out, though we do have cap space to add a high paid FA or two.