Malcom Butler has a great attitude.

[TennisBallHead]

It's not a good look to **** around and leverage the **** out of your own players (Wilfork, Mankins, Butler) while paying ridiculous contracts to outside stiffs like Adalius Thomas and Happy Gilmore.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Add in the fact that the outsider is getting more than twice what you are and isn't as good at the job.

Why should anyone put stock into your evaluations than Bill Belichick's? Gilmore's deal shows that he is better at the job. He has had a different defensive coordinator every season and plays for a very undisciplined defense. As for Gilmore getting more than 2x the amount of Butler, that's been covered many times. There are tons of guys around the league outperforming their rookie contracts who could make the same argument. Butler is not a UFA.

 

[PatsBoy12]

It's not a good look to **** around and leverage the **** out of your own players (Wilfork, Mankins, Butler) while paying ridiculous contracts to outside stiffs like Adalius Thomas and Happy Gilmore.

While I do understand and don't entirely disagree with your premise, I just wanted to add that Thomas was magnificent in his first season and contributed very much to a near undefeated season, and we have no idea what Gilmore will look like in NE's system. And conversely, we have no idea what Butler will look like if ever we have to watch him play in another team's uniform. How many examples of this have we seen in the last 17 seasons going both ways?

Gilmore played in a different system, a blitz heavy one, that often left him on an island. And yeah, he got burned a few times and had moments of inconsistency. I said this in a thread the day he was signed. But you know what, he's also a rising star in the league and has far more upside than Butler. Whatever difference in terms of which player is actually better would only be marginal and extremely difficult to quantify beyond the fact that Gilmore is a much more physically gifted player. Butler has been awesome for us and I wish the situation didn't break down the way that it did. What he lacks in size and top end speed, he makes up for in tenacity and incredible ball skills and hands to fight for position and the ball. But Butler also got beat and had bouts with inconsistency. Decker, in multiple games if memory serves, made Butler his b*tch and that's not up for debate, for instance. And while he was extremely competitive in the 2015 opener, Brown's statistics in that game were incredible. It happens. As the saying goes, "The other guys get paid too." Does that make Butler terrible? Of course not. Does it mean he shouldn't get paid? Of course not. But to split hairs now between the two players is ridiculous. Bill shelled out money at a position he seldom does, including when the GREAT Ty Law was here, and the fact that he did it this time says to me that he sees something in Gilmore that the board apparently does not see. It also says to me that he sees something he may not see in Butler; otherwise, he maybe would have issued Butler more than what they offered him earlier in 2016 and we likely wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

While I do understand and don't entirely disagree with your premise, I just wanted to add that Thomas was magnificent in his first season and contributed very much to a near undefeated season, and we have no idea what Gilmore will look like in NE's system. And conversely, we have no idea what Butler will look like if ever we have to watch him play in another team's uniform. How many examples of this have we seen in the last 17 seasons going both ways?

Gilmore played in a different system, a blitz heavy one, that often left him on an island. And yeah, he got burned a few times and had moments of inconsistency. I said this in a thread the day he was signed. But you know what, he's also a rising star in the league and has far more upside than Butler. Whatever difference in terms of which player is actually better would only be marginal and extremely difficult to quantify beyond the fact that Gilmore is a much more physically gifted player. Butler has been awesome for us and I wish the situation didn't break down the way that it did. But Butler also got beat and had bouts with inconsistency. Decker, in multiple games if memory serves, made Butler his b*tch and that's not up for debate, for instance. And while he was extremely competitive in the 2015 opener, Brown's statistics in that game were incredible. It happens. As the saying goes, "The other guys get paid too." Does that make Butler terrible? Of course not. Does it mean he shouldn't get paid? Of course not. But to split hairs now between the two players is ridiculous. Bill shelled out money at a position he seldom does, including when the GREAT Ty Law was here, and the fact that he did it this time says to me that he sees something in Gilmore that the board apparently does not see. It also says to me that he sees something he may not see in Butler; otherwise, he maybe would have issued Butler more than what they offered him earlier in 2016 and we likely wouldn't be having this conversation.

Excellent post. This should end the discussion about the Butler/Gilmore comparisons. The only other point I'll make is this: they are different players even though they play the same position. Gilmore is a much more physical player who can jam at the line of scrimmage. He is more in the Aqib Talib mold. Butler is much smaller and relies on his quickness and change of direction. He is more in the Chris Harris mode.

 

[SteveFromPA]

I have to say I don't understand the comments that basically say "the CBA says that he can get $4 million, therefore that's what he should play for. Period. Stop. End of discussion."

The problem is exactly that it would be the end of the discussion, because he'd gone come 2018. If we really want him long term, what's wrong with paying more this year as part of a long-term deal to ensure that? It wouldn't be $13 million in the first year, but somewhere in between. And some front-load like signing bonus would help make that more palatable to him.

 

[NashuaPats]

At the 15 minute mark in the Quick Slants podcast in the below article, Tom Curran says he's heard that Butler is in agent shopping mode. That could be a step in the right direction for those of us who hope he stays.


Quick Slants Podcast: Is Malcolm Butler looking for a new agent?

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Some of you guys sound like Tomase, he says that fans seem to ignore the word free in restricted free agent, I think he and some posters ignore the word restricted and the fact that there's many players out playing their rookie contracts that know they have to wait for Ufa for the big pay day.

 

[PatsBoy12]

At the 15 minute mark in the Quick Slants podcast in the below article, Tom Curran says he's heard that Butler is in agent shopping mode. That could be a step in the right direction for those of us who hope he stays.


Quick Slants Podcast: Is Malcolm Butler looking for a new agent?

It sounds in his more recent statements and actions that he knows his agent FUBAR'd the situation by reaching entirely too far. He got caught in the crossfire. I truly believe Butler would rather stay in NE (just my hunch, not based on anything I've read or heard), and I think he regrets (as do I) that the situation became the sh*t show that it is currently. This could be his way of trying to salvage things and ultimately staying in the Flying Elvis. Why go somewhere else to get paid if you can get paid where you are and still have a leg up on everyone else in terms of winning? Who else has the greatest of all time QB and Coach?

 

[patfanken]

It's not a good look to **** around and leverage the **** out of your own players (Wilfork, Mankins, Butler) while paying ridiculous contracts to outside stiffs like Adalius Thomas and Happy Gilmore.

The only thing "not a good look" is this statement. If we never gave a "bad look" we'd have 43 players and no cap room

What Bulter is doing about his current situation is perfectly OK. He is free to work out his own deal as long as that team is willing to pay the price.....along with the money.

I think what people are getting tired of is Butler complaining about it, rather than embracing it. Now of course we don't know if Butler is actually complaining about his RFA, but the click baiting media certainly is. And they are going full force on the story like it was one of the great injustices of our history, right up there with the Holicost, the Plague, and Pearl Harber.

NOTHING was done wrong by the Patriots. There was no insult. There was no threat. The reality is he turned down a LOT more money, but less than market, and he's getting paid $4MM this season so he will allowed to freely shop his skills next season. That's it. You don't see Chris Sales threating baseball just because he will make half of what he could make for the next THREE years. Why? Because those are the rules of baseball. Why would he complain. It is what it is.

THAT is what Butler should do. Embrace his status. Prepare for an all pro year. And move on one way or another with a smile on his face. Christ, 4 years ago he was maning the window of a Popeye's. Now he is manning one side of a football field for $4MM, and everything else he can make because of his notariety. He has NOTHING to be pissed about. Unless of course he really isn't pissed, and its just the mediots stirring the pot.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

It's not a good look to **** around and leverage the **** out of your own players (Wilfork, Mankins, Butler) while paying ridiculous contracts to outside stiffs like Adalius Thomas and Happy Gilmore.

 

[FourierSeries]

It's not a good look to **** around and leverage the **** out of your own players (Wilfork, Mankins, Butler) while paying ridiculous contracts to outside stiffs like Adalius Thomas and Happy Gilmore.

You're going to look very silly next season.

 

[Raymond]

Let's say you do a really, really good job at your company, and for good measure, your background was very modest and you had to fight to even get an interview in the first place. Then, the company goes and hires an outside guy with your exact job title and pays him more than what you were asking for. Are you really gonna be like "it's best for the company so I'm happy!"? I sure wouldn't.

So, you never worked in a Union shop. OK then move along because everything you say does not apply.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

BB whom we all trust clearly thinks Gilmore is the more valuable corner than butler. Why can't everyone just accept that?

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

BB whom we all trust clearly thinks Gilmore is the more valuable corner than butler. Why can everyone just accept that?

Because everyone thinks they are very brilliant since they watch this team for three hours every week on television. If I had a dime for every time over the last fifteen years that Belichick has been right despite going against the outside perception...

I think that the Gilmore signing was first and foremost due to this: One in hand is worth two in the bush. Could the Patriots have extended Butler? Maybe; maybe not. It sounds like Butler's expectations as an RFA were pretty far apart from what the Patriots were offering him, and probably his theoretical expectations next year as a UFA were also pretty far off. With Gilmore, they felt the price was worth it and made the deal while they could. It's a dangerous game playing around with #1 cornerbacks, and the Patriots postseason success has often come down to whether or not they have an elite guy out there. Bottom line is, had they not signed Gilmore, it would be very risky knowing that Butler is the only remaining option without a lot of confidence that a deal even gets done.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

BB whom we all trust clearly thinks Gilmore is the more valuable corner than butler. Why can everyone just accept that?

Not necessarily, it just means that what the Pats paid was the going price for Gilmore's services moving forward. Just like BB knew that he wasn't going to match the $10 million a year that Ryan got. Obviously you can say that BB thinks more of Gilmore than Ryan. BUT he you can't say that about Butler, BB knew, that he has control over Butler for another year for 3.9 million. Now 3.9 million seems like a very small amount for a top flight CB, BUT he is still on his rookie deal, he has made a boatload in playoff money (not to mention the free truck) and pay inceptives. Next year Butler's worth is going to be in the 10 million a year neighborhood. You can't compare Butler to Unrestricted Free Agents, because, he is not one.

Where Butler screwed up was last year, coming off a full year as a starter, knowing full well he had another year left on his paltry rookie contract, and then almost assuredly he was going to be hit with the first round tender, Butler should have had his peeps working on an extension. I think the Pats would have given Butler a nice bump in pay over these last two years if they could decrease the amount it would have cost them to keep him after next year. Say the Pats offered Butler a 3 year extension, averaging 8 million a season over the five years of the contract. Butler would have seen a nice signing bonus, that money would already be in his account earning interest. So Instead of making $600,000 last year and then 3.9 million this year, he would have made considerable more, but given up money on the back end of that contract.

But now, that he is one year away from UFA, it makes no sense for the Pats to give him a Gilmorish contract now, when they can control him for two more years at half that money, if they were to use the franchise tag next year.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Because everyone thinks they are very brilliant since they watch this team for three hours every week on television. If I had a dime for every time over the last fifteen years that Belichick has been right despite going against the outside perception...

I think that the Gilmore signing was first and foremost due to this: One in hand is worth two in the bush. Could the Patriots have extended Butler? Maybe; maybe not. It sounds like Butler's expectations as an RFA were pretty far apart from what the Patriots were offering him, and probably his theoretical expectations next year as a UFA were also pretty far off. With Gilmore, they felt the price was worth it and made the deal while they could. It's a dangerous game playing around with #1 cornerbacks, and the Patriots postseason success has often come down to whether or not they have an elite guy out there. Bottom line is, had they not signed Gilmore, it would be very risky knowing that Butler is the only remaining option without a lot of confidence that a deal even gets done.[/QUOT

Great Post. Another thing I'll add. I believe some of these posters develop attachments to these homegrown players and they become blind and bias when it comes to evaluating players outside of New England. Especially the blue chip homegrown New England players. New England Fans love those ones.
Luckily for us, BB doesn't think that way. He believes in doing what's best for the team, not individual loyalty. It works and will continue to work.

 

[varjao]

Let's say you do a really, really good job at your company, and for good measure, your background was very modest and you had to fight to even get an interview in the first place. Then, the company goes and hires an outside guy with your exact job title and pays him more than what you were asking for. Are you really gonna be like "it's best for the company so I'm happy!"? I sure wouldn't.

Certainly not, I understand the situation and I've been through situations like this in the market, in both sides, as the intern who grew up inside the company's culture and as an outsider coming for a more elevated position with guys on the inside already busting their asses.

It's normal, there is nothing unusual, it happens all the time. There's a company I worked that at a certain time there was a strange culture there, people used to resign, go to the market for 6 months to a year or 2, and then come back to assume a better position. It was almost becoming a standard like it is for vets around the league come to the Pats to resurrect their careers. Fortunately I didn't need to do that at the time and could get a few promotions from the inside.

Butler has all the right in the world to be pissed and I certainly would too but I wouldn't externalize that to the media (or in my case starting to gossip between co-workers and creating noise) and would deal with that in closed doors.

I'm not even going into the fact that he was less than an average joe 3 years ago and now is on the verge of making millions and has been already making thousands of dollars, even as a UDFA from year one he's making more than top executives make in a year so he needs to get real and cut the crap. Leaking minimum stuff to the sharks in the media is all they need to create stories.

Some of these metaphors are off the mark and not really applicable. Butler signed an exclusive contract as a nobody who couldn't get a job anywhere except NEP. Thus, the contract he signed quite paltry, but he was happy to have a job. After performing very well quickly, he got a slight pay increase on that contract, and now gets a decent increase in the last year of the deal, though it is still a lot less than he would make if he was free and not under this exclusive contract. In the last year of this contract, he decides he wants a new contract and argues with his employer over it. His employer offers to extend his contract with a decent pay increase but he has to finish out the last year of this contract first. He balks at this and continues to demand being paid "what he's worth" despite still being under contract. He then starts talking to other companies and seeing what they would be willing to pay him. His company starts getting tired of this behavior, so they go out and sign someone else to a new contract who had just finished up their prior contract with their previous employer, and they pay this person what he's worth because he's out on the open market. Butler is now upset about this, and finds it unfair that someone else is getting paid what he wants to do the job he's here to do.

The point is, you sign a contract, and you have to honor the contract. You don't get to decide at the end that you want to get a new contract RIGHT NOW, and then get upset when your employer gets tired of your shenanigans and brings in someone else who DOES get paid. You can say that other person is "an outsider" but every player is an outsider until they're signed here. Butler doesn't "deserve" that money more because he has history here. He's still under the original contract he signed. He doesn't get to demand to be paid market value when he's still under contract. It doesn't work like that, in NE or elsewhere or most other industries.

Exactly, great post, and to make a long story short, how do you think all of this is sitting with Belichick? For me it's not sitting well, I think that bridge is on the ground. Showing bad judgement off the field is not a good thing in this team. Belichick prefers to deal with smart and professional people.

 

[varjao]

Not necessarily, it just means that what the Pats paid was the going price for Gilmore's services moving forward. Just like BB knew that he wasn't going to match the $10 million a year that Ryan got. Obviously you can say that BB thinks more of Gilmore than Ryan. BUT he you can't say that about Butler, BB knew, that he has control over Butler for another year for 3.9 million. Now 3.9 million seems like a very small amount for a top flight CB, BUT he is still on his rookie deal, he has made a boatload in playoff money (not to mention the free truck) and pay inceptives. Next year Butler's worth is going to be in the 10 million a year neighborhood. You can't compare Butler to Unrestricted Free Agents, because, he is not one.

Where Butler screwed up was last year, coming off a full year as a starter, knowing full well he had another year left on his paltry rookie contract, and then almost assuredly he was going to be hit with the first round tender, Butler should have had his peeps working on an extension. I think the Pats would have given Butler a nice bump in pay over these last two years if they could decrease the amount it would have cost them to keep him after next year. Say the Pats offered Butler a 3 year extension, averaging 8 million a season over the five years of the contract. Butler would have seen a nice signing bonus, that money would already be in his account earning interest. So Instead of making $600,000 last year and then 3.9 million this year, he would have made considerable more, but given up money on the back end of that contract.

But now, that he is one year away from UFA, it makes no sense for the Pats to give him a Gilmorish contract now, when they can control him for two more years at half that money, if they were to use the franchise tag next year.

And you can make a case that in the end there's a chance he will make less money than he would in this example you just made because his stock is going down day by day and the Saints seems to be out of this business. Belichick did not cave and the league will low ball him next year. Unless of course, he plays lights out this year.

 

[1960Pats]

I would say "awesome". The backfield looks awesome. Sure, it'd be less imposing, but if DM, Chung, Harmon, and Gilmore are out there with whomever emerges (Rowe, Jones...) we're more than fine.

Awesome and more than fine are different and both are a bit optimistic. We'd be replacing our starting CB's with question marks.

 

[1960Pats]

Why should anyone put stock into your evaluations than Bill Belichick's? Gilmore's deal shows that he is better at the job. He has had a different defensive coordinator every season and plays for a very undisciplined defense. As for Gilmore getting more than 2x the amount of Butler, that's been covered many times. There are tons of guys around the league outperforming their rookie contracts who could make the same argument. Butler is not a UFA.

I wasn't talking about the team's evaluation. We all know whet they're doing is legal and Butler is shopping around.

If Butler needs to understand the difference between his situation and Gilmore's, then so should the fans using salary as a comparison. They can't have it both ways.

Of the 400 or so FA's that I saw with a ranking, Butler graded out at 5th last year and Gilmore 142nd. Butler's fantastic work ethic and outstanding history here gives him the right to be treated with a lot more respect from the fans.

Butler and his agent also have every right to be checking out his options until they sign the offer, which is something that get's treated like blasphemy around here. How quick we forget.