Malcom Butler has a great attitude.

[1960Pats]

Excellent post. This should end the discussion about the Butler/Gilmore comparisons.

That's that then.

 

[JJR4884]

Some of you are ridiculous

NFL players are people too. I'm sure all of you would be super stoked and start working your asses off if your companies brought in an outsider to do the job you were hoping for. And on top of that, gave the new guy a massive raise.

Save your keystrokes if you're going to reply that it wouldn't bother you and you'd still work extra hard. Because you're full of **** if you claim that

Little different scenario. In a lot of companies you spend x amount of time in a roll before getting a promotion or even being eligible. This is where Malcolm Butler is at. He is still under the contract that he agreed to.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Of the 400 or so FA's that I saw with a ranking, Butler graded out at 5th last year and Gilmore 142nd. Butler's fantastic work ethic and outstanding history here gives him the right to be treated with a lot more respect from the fans.

How can you say this with a straight face? Virtually every publication and respectable NFL analyst had Gilmore as a top-10 free agent and the #1 corner on the market. Most people didn't even bother putting Butler on the list, since he was tendered at the first round, and it turns out they were correct in assuming no team would consider giving up that much to sign him, just as they have avoided doing this for every other player with that tender going back 10+ years.

Just acknowledge at least that a ranking of 142 for Gilmore is silly and obviously stupid. He signed one of the biggest contracts in free agency, mind you from the best talent evaluator in NFL history, and you are actually still citing that as evidence. Clearly a publication that ranked Gilmore at 142 should not be taken seriously with any of its rankings.

 

[1960Pats]

BB whom we all trust clearly thinks Gilmore is the more valuable corner than butler. Why can't everyone just accept that?

Because everyone thinks they are very brilliant since they watch this team for three hours every week on television. If I had a dime for every time over the last fifteen years that Belichick has been right despite going against the outside perception...

I think that the Gilmore signing was first and foremost due to this: One in hand is worth two in the bush. Could the Patriots have extended Butler? Maybe; maybe not. It sounds like Butler's expectations as an RFA were pretty far apart from what the Patriots were offering him, and probably his theoretical expectations next year as a UFA were also pretty far off. With Gilmore, they felt the price was worth it and made the deal while they could. It's a dangerous game playing around with #1 cornerbacks, and the Patriots postseason success has often come down to whether or not they have an elite guy out there. Bottom line is, had they not signed Gilmore, it would be very risky knowing that Butler is the only remaining option without a lot of confidence that a deal even gets done.

I thought the reason Gilmore got more was because his situation is different. That was the reason the future NYFL GM's here were using to criticize Butler and his agent. Now it's supposed to be the measuring stick for a player's ability?

How exactly do we know that BB didn't pick up Gilmore to replace Ryan?

 

[Rob0729]

I am beginning to think the ultimate end to this is Butler spends the next two years here (this year on the RFA tender and franchised next year). He will end up making less those two years than if he signed a longer term deal. The question will be what he will make on the open market in 2019.

It is clear the Pats want two #1 CBs if the Richard Sherman rumors are true. I think Butler may be here this season unless someone signs him to an offer and make it so the Pats can't/won't match. I don't think the Pats will trade him at this point.

 

[Rob0729]

How can you say this with a straight face? Virtually every publication and respectable NFL analyst had Gilmore as a top-10 free agent and the #1 corner on the market. Most people didn't even bother putting Butler on the list, since he was tendered at the first round, and it turns out they were correct in assuming no team would consider giving up that much to sign him, just as they have avoided doing this for every other player with that tender going back 10+ years.

Just acknowledge at least that a ranking of 142 for Gilmore is silly and obviously stupid. He signed one of the biggest contracts in free agency, mind you from the best talent evaluator in NFL history, and you are actually still citing that as evidence. Clearly a publication that ranked Gilmore at 142 should not be taken seriously with any of its rankings.

Yeah, the thing is that if Gilmore was an UFA last offseason, he would be a top 3 free agent. He had a down year last year, but that may be because of two reasons - Rob Ryan and the Bills' pass rush was non-existent. In 2015, he was considered much like Butler is now as an emerging star.

 

[JMC00]

In the last year of this contract, he decides he wants a new contract and argues with his employer over it

Wasn't just that. Went to them after 1 season of starting asking for $10m per

 

[Froob]

Keep the beast, he's motivated as ever. He'll ball out this season and hopefully we'll re sign him. If not, oh well hope he goes out with a third ring.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Anyone saying they would not be frustrated is lying.

Sorry you can't see how other people would have a different perspective. Life gives us all choices; I've gotten the short end of the stick sometimes but it doesn't make me bitter or unhappy. I either accept it or embrace it and move on.

Yes, there are people who think and act like me. Stop looking at what might be and just enjoy where you are and all the blessings you already have. Who knows, getting millions more is as often as not a curse as much as a blessing. (Hence the statistic that about 75% of all lottery winners are either divorced, alcoholics or broke within 5 years.)

 

[XLIX]

Sorry you can't see how other people would have a different perspective. Life gives us all choices; I've gotten the short end of the stick sometimes but it doesn't make me bitter or unhappy. I either accept it or embrace it and move on.

I didn't say bitter or unhappy, I said frustrated.

 

[JayNM]

Here's the lesson some people could use:

Just because you are right, it doesn't mean that the other side is wrong.

The Patriots are right

Butler is right

Ray Lewis killed a guy

 

[chasa]

Sorry you can't see how other people would have a different perspective. Life gives us all choices; I've gotten the short end of the stick sometimes but it doesn't make me bitter or unhappy. I either accept it or embrace it and move on.

Yes, there are people who think and act like me. Stop looking at what might be and just enjoy where you are and all the blessings you already have. Who knows, getting millions more is as often as not a curse as much as a blessing. (Hence the statistic that about 75% of all lottery winners are either divorced, alcoholics or broke within 5 years.)

75% of all lottery winners are degenerate morons with no common sense and severe gambling addictions.

 

[jimnance]

Excellent post. This should end the discussion about the Butler/Gilmore comparisons. The only other point I'll make is this: they are different players even though they play the same position. Gilmore is a much more physical player who can jam at the line of scrimmage. He is more in the Aqib Talib mold. Butler is much smaller and relies on his quickness and change of direction. He is more in the Chris Harris mode.

You obviously haven't watched much of Butler OR Gilmore because you don't know wtf you're talking about.

Butler is one of the most physical cbs in the nfl- much more so than Gilmore( who is also fairly physical).

Butler jams wrs better at the los than Gilmore, plays pressman as good or better and is a better tackler. That pretty much encompasses every aspect of being physical.

And nobody in their right mind would argue that Gilmore has been as good as Butler over the last 2 years.

You further show your ignorance by holding up Gilmore's contract as " proof" of his superiority,lol. Obviously you don't know the difference between RFA and ufa or you wouldn't have made such an asinine comment. Butler has no leverage. Gilmore does. Next year, Butler will have the same leverage as Gilmore.

As I pointed out in anothet thread,teams don't give out contracts to fas based solely on performance. It's based as much on potential- how they think player will perform in coming years. Gilmore clearly has more potential than Butler. I said that from the get go. But he's been much more inconsistent than malcolm. I think Gilmore's best would be better than butler's best. BB obviously feels he can help Gilmore be his best. You can argue Sherman had been better than Butler, you can't argue Gilmore has.

You got some some kind of bug up your ass about Butler, I don't know why. IMO, the best scenario is Butler and Gilmore as the top 2, they'd push each other and be the best tandem in the NFL. You also need to to research butler's top-end speed- he's faster than most cbs in the
Nfl- 4.42. Gilmore is slightly faster.

 

[jimnance]

Just for fun, looked up Gilmore's 40 time. It was 4.40. Butler's 4.42.
Another false narrative dispelled.
I didn't look up their 3cones, which are way more important for a cb than the 40, but I know both are excellent.
To say Gilmore is a better athlete is ludicrous.

 

[RayClay]

Just for fun, looked up Gilmore's 40 time. It was 4.40. Butler's 4.42.
Another false narrative dispelled.
I didn't look up their 3cones, which are way more important for a cb than the 40, but I know both are excellent.
To say Gilmore is a better athlete is ludicrous.

Gilmore is 6'1." Butler is maybe 5'11". I'm not a draft guy, but there aren't a lot of good tall CBs and they are worth much more than under 6 foot RBs, of which there are a lot.

 

[RayClay]

Rich Hill, in an article about other Pats cbs, has Butler listed at 5'9 6/8"

Small CB Jonathan Jones could have a big impact

 

[jimnance]

In general, I'd rather have a bunch of 5'10" cbs than 6'1 or 6'2" guys. The taller guys just aren't quick enough to cover everybody.
But the Pats have 2 of the only 3 cbs in the NFL over 6' who have great 3 cones, which usually translates into the quickness that the Malcolm butler's have to cover the je11s and Antonio browns. That would be Rowe and Gilmore.
That's why I'm salivating over a Butler/Gilmore/Rowe combo- that would be incredibly versatile- all 3 can cover slot,all have straightline speed,all can cover outside. Plus you have 2 tall cbs to handle taller wrs.

 

[RayClay]

My take. NFL window is small and it's not fair. Some jerk in the right place, right position will get a contract he'll never live up to. Butler will likely never hit the jackpot because he screwed around, got kicked out of school and didn't study enough to get in a better one. He probably would have been best off to get a long term deal from the Pats and at least get security. I love his combative attitude and work ethic, but he really needs someone smart to guide him, not a Mississippi ambulance chaser. Someone smart.

Not intending to stereotype, that's just what I see.

 

[RayClay]

In general, I'd rather have a bunch of 5'10" cbs than 6'1 or 6'2" guys. The taller guys just aren't quick enough to cover everybody.
But the Pats have 2 of the only 3 cbs in the NFL over 6' who have great 3 cones, which usually translates into the quickness that the Malcolm butler's have to cover the je11s and Antonio browns. That would be Rowe and Gilmore.
That's why I'm salivating over a Butler/Gilmore/Rowe combo- that would be incredibly versatile- all 3 can cover slot,all have straightline speed,all can cover outside. Plus you have 2 tall cbs to handle taller wrs.

Well, we kind of have a meeting of the minds. Most tall CBs suck and they get drafted too high. That's why we never get one, because the good ones are first rounders. Ras I Dowling was a stretch, to try to get a high #1 type in round two. Worth a shot imo. If they stole Rowe and paid Gilmore, they can stock the pond with tons of smurfs, or a top CB in Butler. What a luxury.

 

[jimnance]

My take. NFL window is small and it's not fair. Some jerk in the right place, right position will get a contract he'll never live up to. Butler will likely never hit the jackpot because he screwed around, got kicked out of school and didn't study enough to get in a better one. He probably would have been best off to get a long term deal from the Pats and at least get security. I love his combative attitude and work ethic, but he really needs someone smart to guide him, not a Mississippi ambulance chaser. Someone smart.

Not intending to stereotype, that's just what I see.

I agree he's getting bad advice. It's understandable he sees Gilmore's contract and says " what about me?", considering he's been a better cb than Gilmore. But it's not that simple.
Gilmore finished his rookie deal and earned his UFA. Malcolm is still a year away. They're totally different situations. His agent has done a crappy job with this. Wait one more year and I guarantee Butler gets more $ than Gilmore( though not as many years due to his age).