Mahomes will never be better than Brady

[BobDigital]

Lets go down the list

1994- Young- that was it but counted 13.1% vs cap. Higest for a SB champ CHEATED
1995- Aikman- that was it
1996- Favre- that was it rookie deal
1997-1998 - Elway CHEATED
1999- Warner cheap deal
2000- Dilfer peanuts
2001,2003, 2004, 2014, 2016, 2018- GOAT
2002- Brad Johnson- Got for a song and a dance
2005, 2008- Rapist was still on a cheap deal in 08.
2006- P. Manning- EXCEPTION
2007,2011 E. Manning had big extensions but cap % was still < 12%
2009- Brees. 8.7% of cap
2010- Rodgers in 2nd deal but only ~7% of cap
2012- Flacco got big money after
2013- Wilson rookie deal
2015 - P Manning big money and everyone else on fairly cheap deals
2017- Wentz/Foles Cheap
2019-Mahomes cheap deal.
2020- Tom reasonably cheap deal.

Brady was actually 13.9 in Tampa. So above that 13% threshold, though not by much. While it matters it is more of a guideline and depends on other things.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

The more this game sets in, the more I watch and read stuff about it, the less I'm convinced Mahomes is going to be the next generation's Brady or even it's Brady Lite.

First of all, the hype is not totally unprecedented in terms of people marveling over Mahomes "perfect" playing style and physical skills; it's a little more hyped than Aaron Rodgers circa 2010/11 but not by not that much. But the point is that in 2011 as the Packers were steamrolling through the league and gunning for a repeat, no one could ever imagine that Rodgers would, ten years later, still be shutout of another Super Bowl appearance. And it wasn't due to some major injury to Rodgers or some severe flaw in his game. It was more about how so much of what we see as perfection during some peak quarterbacking never lasts foreverr; it's a rhythm and confidence level that - like all things - comes and goes and rarely returns to its perfect original state. Accumulating wear and tear and injuries, the grind, the growing external and internal doubt and critics, the slices of blame pie, and of course in today's NFL, the salary cap/big contract dilemna that poses a gigantic challenge to return to that level of dominance and ease.

What I saw in the Super Bowl was a guy who really loves himself a lot and knew he was showcasing himself. He was flaunting the aesthetic beauty of his athlelic skills while showing the world he was heroic and mentally tough despite being badly overmatched. This was instead of trying to win ugly, whatever small chance that was. It is really a lot of the same criticism I've personally noted about Rodgers for many years, that he's way more concerned about how he's perceived and about upholding an image of himself as unique and special talent at all costs, even if that's at odds with taking the highest percentages for winning.

I'm sure you can find a lot of plays where Mahomes just gets blown up, and that's fair. I'm not saying he brought this entire game - with all of its results - upon himself. What I'm saying is that the Tampa Bay Buccanneers were actually not the 1985 Chicago Bears, that Kansas City suffered zero injuries during the game and had two weeks to prepare, that it was very obvious the line would struggle to hold up and Mahomes knew that going in. I have literally never seen a professional quarterback scramble in the backfield for a fraction of that, which I believe was around 500 yards total. Anyone with a brain understands that style of play makes the protection look so much worse and the quarterback look like a one man showcase of otherwordly talent.

Really the only huge outlier about this Super Bowl was Mahomes 500 dodging yards antics. There have been plenty of times in the NFL and in Super Bowls where a defensive line has totally dominated. The Chiefs did have, as we heard for two weeks, an all-time great, efficient offense that couldn't be stopped even if a pass rush could slow it down a little. And for two weeks we all envisioned and heard about how Mahomes pre-snap decisions would allow him to get the ball out immediately. I don't see how this performance wasn't almost entirely on him. And I don't want to hear about how he wouldn't have won anyway. The point is he played in a way that's adverse to winning.

 

[amfootball]

The more this game sets in, the more I watch and read stuff about it, the less I'm convinced Mahomes is going to be the next generation's Brady or even it's Brady Lite.

First of all, the hype is not totally unprecedented in terms of people marveling over Mahomes "perfect" playing style and physical skills; it's a little more hyped than Aaron Rodgers circa 2010/11 but not by not that much. But the point is that in 2011 as the Packers were steamrolling through the league and gunning for a repeat, no one could ever imagine that Rodgers would, ten years later, still be shutout of another Super Bowl appearance. And it wasn't due to some major injury to Rodgers or some severe flaw in his game. It was more about how so much of what we see as perfection during some peak quarterbacking never lasts foreverr; it's a rhythm and confidence level that - like all things - comes and goes and rarely returns to its perfect original state. Accumulating wear and tear and injuries, the grind, the growing external and internal doubt and critics, the slices of blame pie, and of course in today's NFL, the salary cap/big contract dilemna that poses a gigantic challenge to return to that level of dominance and ease.

What I saw in the Super Bowl was a guy who really loves himself a lot and knew he was showcasing himself. He was flaunting the aesthetic beauty of his athlelic skills while showing the world he was heroic and mentally tough despite being badly overmatched. This was instead of trying to win ugly, whatever small chance that was. It is really a lot of the same criticism I've personally noted about Rodgers for many years, that he's way more concerned about how he's perceived and about upholding an image of himself as unique and special talent at all costs, even if that's at odds with taking the highest percentages for winning.

I'm sure you can find a lot of plays where Mahomes just gets blown up, and that's fair. I'm not saying he brought this entire game - with all of its results - upon himself. What I'm saying is that the Tampa Bay Buccanneers were actually not the 1985 Chicago Bears, that Kansas City suffered zero injuries during the game and had two weeks to prepare, that it was very obvious the line would struggle to hold up and Mahomes knew that going in. I have literally never seen a professional quarterback scramble in the backfield for a fraction of that, which I believe was around 500 yards total. Anyone with a brain understands that style of play makes the protection look so much worse and the quarterback look like a one man showcase of otherwordly talent.

Really the only huge outlier about this Super Bowl was Mahomes 500 dodging yards antics. There have been plenty of times in the NFL and in Super Bowls where a defensive line has totally dominated. The Chiefs did have, as we heard for two weeks, an all-time great, efficient offense that couldn't be stopped even if a pass rush could slow it down a little. And for two weeks we all envisioned and heard about how Mahomes pre-snap decisions would allow him to get the ball out immediately. I don't see how this performance wasn't almost entirely on him. And I don't want to hear about how he wouldn't have won anyway. The point is he played in a way that adverse to winning.

Could not agree more. I posted on another thread how Mahomes 100% relies on his athletic ability over the cerebral qualities it takes to win games as a QB. That is what is infuriating to most people who watch Brady and really believe he is short on talent. They are unable to see how methodically he plays the position to ensure the team wins regardless of how he looks or his stats and how in the process he also preserves his body because he knows if he comes down with turf toe in the playoffs, it will drastically hurt his teams chance at winning.

I agree with your Rodgers comparison on the level of showboating but Mahomes reminds me more of Cam and Vick who had an unprecedented level of athleticism the game had never seen until they arrived. Both accumulated a ton of injuries and had short primes as a result, Vick's imprisonment not withstanding. That is the path for Mahomes unless he is able to change into more of a pocket passer who steps up but I just don't see it happening. He has too many gifts with both his arm and legs to ever become that type of QB. The media is begging him every week to give them a highlight reel performance. It's those expectations that will shorten his career and accomplishments.

 

[everlong]

Like how on that illegal hit to the head cheifs fans were crying about, I think it was Gronk that had a guy literally on his back before the ball was thrown and it wasn't called.

Sorry but it was very one sided. The pick play they didn't call on the Chiefs alone was a game changing clear out and meanwhile Edelman was getting mugged every play and JC Jackson got called on a bunch of ticky tack fowls. I don't remember hearing "the refs need to let them play" after that.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

The more this game sets in, the more I watch and read stuff about it, the less I'm convinced Mahomes is going to be the next generation's Brady or even it's Brady Lite.

Mahomes reminds me of Favre, Elway, and a better version of Rodgers.

Brady and Montana are a different breed altogether.

 

[everlong]

Can we pump the breaks on Russell Wilson?

Mahomes wasn't good in the Super Bowl but he was running for his life on a bad foot all night and his receivers didn't help him out much either. He's still likely to win to multiple league MVP's and Super Bowls. The one thing that may catch up with him is injuries. That said, Brady has set the bar so high now that no one, including Mahomes, will ever match it. However, Mahomes is already better than Wilson. Each is 1-1 in the Super Bowl but only Wilson threw a devastating pick to end the game (following a 4-pick game in the NFCCG). Mahomes is an all-pro with a league MVP award. Wilson is not. Wilson was a landslide MVP at the midway point of this season before he went turnover-happy in the second half. In one stretch of 3 losses Wilson had 9 turnovers.

I'm not saying Wilson isn't good, because he's an excellent quarterback, but he's not Mahomes, and he's come up really small in the some big moments. If he doesn't win another Super Bowl then he'll be most remembered for a completion to a db.

Wilson has also had a lot less to work with especially in terms of OL and we saw Mahomes have issues with the diminished OL.

I also only said it's more likely at this point Mahomes recedes to Wilson's level than he catches Brady. I don't really think that's even a debate any longer. He's not winning 6 more.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Also you pump the brakes. You rap in the breaks.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

I have nothing against Mahomes and if he's the player we think he is this will only make him hungry. What's with his family? Are they all crazy?

They have the entitlement of the Manning's it seems like

I like Patrick Mahomes, but his fiance his one of the most obnoxious females in her age bracket and his helicopter mother runs her mouth way too much.. I mean, its his mom.. i get it, but man they are giving her a platform and she doesnt make him look good haha

 

[JarOfMayo51]

I would argue that Mahomes game does not lend itself to longevity as much as Toms... Not to say he is not a GREAT QB, but how well is he going to be able to twist, dodge, side-arm etc.. when he is 43 years old? I also think his game lines him up for big hits, as you saw this offseason.

Chiefs may have the least likeable group of stars I've ever seen in Mahomes, Hill, and Kelce - woof.

exactly, Mahomes needs to cash in on his first 10 years in the league, because a lot of that ability is going to erode or just simply become too detrimental overall for him to sustain it long term

All it will take tho is another Tyreek Hill injury to bring him back down to earth a little, he has looked a lot more mortal when Hill is out.. and Hill isnt going to be around forever

 

[Tony2046]

The more this game sets in, the more I watch and read stuff about it, the less I'm convinced Mahomes is going to be the next generation's Brady or even it's Brady Lite.

First of all, the hype is not totally unprecedented in terms of people marveling over Mahomes "perfect" playing style and physical skills; it's a little more hyped than Aaron Rodgers circa 2010/11 but not by not that much. But the point is that in 2011 as the Packers were steamrolling through the league and gunning for a repeat, no one could ever imagine that Rodgers would, ten years later, still be shutout of another Super Bowl appearance. And it wasn't due to some major injury to Rodgers or some severe flaw in his game. It was more about how so much of what we see as perfection during some peak quarterbacking never lasts foreverr; it's a rhythm and confidence level that - like all things - comes and goes and rarely returns to its perfect original state. Accumulating wear and tear and injuries, the grind, the growing external and internal doubt and critics, the slices of blame pie, and of course in today's NFL, the salary cap/big contract dilemna that poses a gigantic challenge to return to that level of dominance and ease.

What I saw in the Super Bowl was a guy who really loves himself a lot and knew he was showcasing himself. He was flaunting the aesthetic beauty of his athlelic skills while showing the world he was heroic and mentally tough despite being badly overmatched. This was instead of trying to win ugly, whatever small chance that was. It is really a lot of the same criticism I've personally noted about Rodgers for many years, that he's way more concerned about how he's perceived and about upholding an image of himself as unique and special talent at all costs, even if that's at odds with taking the highest percentages for winning.

I'm sure you can find a lot of plays where Mahomes just gets blown up, and that's fair. I'm not saying he brought this entire game - with all of its results - upon himself. What I'm saying is that the Tampa Bay Buccanneers were actually not the 1985 Chicago Bears, that Kansas City suffered zero injuries during the game and had two weeks to prepare, that it was very obvious the line would struggle to hold up and Mahomes knew that going in. I have literally never seen a professional quarterback scramble in the backfield for a fraction of that, which I believe was around 500 yards total. Anyone with a brain understands that style of play makes the protection look so much worse and the quarterback look like a one man showcase of otherwordly talent.

Really the only huge outlier about this Super Bowl was Mahomes 500 dodging yards antics. There have been plenty of times in the NFL and in Super Bowls where a defensive line has totally dominated. The Chiefs did have, as we heard for two weeks, an all-time great, efficient offense that couldn't be stopped even if a pass rush could slow it down a little. And for two weeks we all envisioned and heard about how Mahomes pre-snap decisions would allow him to get the ball out immediately. I don't see how this performance wasn't almost entirely on him. And I don't want to hear about how he wouldn't have won anyway. The point is he played in a way that's adverse to winning.

Mahomes is still a pup. I doubt he's calling the plays.

I could be wrong but I didn't see Mahomes showcasing himself rather a QB running for his life trying to make plays.

Did Andy help out his deficient Tackles once? A chip? Did Kelce block anything during the game??

To me that was a huge coaching flop. Safeties are twenty yards from the line of scrimmage and the fastest man in the NFL is trying to get behind them. Booo.

Where was the running game? Screens? Sweeps? Slants under the safeties?

No halftime adjustments?

Where was Watkins?

In the end I don't think adjustments would have helped much. Tampa was just that dominant.

Anyway I don't blame Mahomes for the loss.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Mahomes is still a pup. I doubt he's calling the plays.

I could be wrong but I didn't see Mahomes showcasing himself rather a QB running for his life trying to make plays.

Did Andy help out his deficient Tackles once? A chip? Did Kelce block anything during the game??

To me that was a huge coaching flop. Safeties are twenty yards from the line of scrimmage and the fastest man in the NFL is trying to get behind them. Booo.

Where was the running game? Screens? Sweeps? Slants under the safeties?

No halftime adjustments?

Where was Watkins?

In the end I don't think adjustments would have helped much. Tampa was just that dominant.

Anyway I don't blame Mahomes for the loss.

Go away, voice of reason.

I have now decreed that Mahomes will fail and so it shall come to pass.

 

[amfootball]

Mahomes is still a pup. I doubt he's calling the plays.

I could be wrong but I didn't see Mahomes showcasing himself rather a QB running for his life trying to make plays.

Did Andy help out his deficient Tackles once? A chip? Did Kelce block anything during the game??

To me that was a huge coaching flop. Safeties are twenty yards from the line of scrimmage and the fastest man in the NFL is trying to get behind them. Booo.

Where was the running game? Screens? Sweeps? Slants under the safeties?

No halftime adjustments?

Where was Watkins?

In the end I don't think adjustments would have helped much. Tampa was just that dominant.

Anyway I don't blame Mahomes for the loss.

You do realize that the Chiefs had 5 blocking Tampa's 4 all game, right?

They did try to run screens and slants. The issue is the Bucs LBs ate them up. Go back and watch the game if you haven't and you will see the Bucs flying to the ball. They had 7 in coverage vs the Chiefs 5 that were going out.

I think they should have run more. But Vea in the middle and their LBs shooting the cap made that pretty futile too.

Reid is not a dummy. He is the best offensive mind in football but the Bucs were just too good and Mahomes was not good enough at reading the defense to see where his best match up was or mature enough yet to audible to the run.

 

[Reubski23]

The window is closing, soon mahones will be the next Wilson.

wilson isn’t in the same zip code as Mahomes.
Wilson is in the Rodgers/Lebron ilk - only cares about stats.
Mahomes is much more Brady/Jordan

 

[everlong]

A few things to put even more context on the gap between TB and everyone else.

SB appearance: Brady 10 is equal to Montana + Elway + Marino with more wins 7 to 6

SB Wins: Brady 10 is equal to the total of his rivals Peyton 2, Ben 2, Rodgers 1, Brees 1, Farve 1 and Mahomes 1

Brady has 17 wins if you just count the WC and Divisional rounds. Brady has 17 wins if you just count CGs and SBs. Those totals are higher than Joe Montana's 16 total playoff wins and he's second to Brady's 34 total.

Brady is 34-11 with a .756 playoff winning percentage. He's 7-3 for a .700 SB winning percentage.

With 100 or more starts in the regular season only Staubach .746, Montana .713 and Manning .703 are above his SB winning percentage.

Only Manning and Brady have won a SB with multiple teams. Only Brady has done it in both conferences.

If Tampa goes back to back only Brady and Bradshaw will have done so back to back twice. Only Brady will have led multiple teams to multiple SBs.

We can get into all the volume records both regular and post season. With Brees either retiring or coming back looking old Brady's going to own everything in both categories.

I don't have the time but it would be interesting to see how many different players have won a SB with Brady. It has to be close to 200. Assuming a minimum of 50 each with the 2000 Pats, 2010 Pats and 2020 Bucs. But there was always so much turnover between all of those teams. Even thinking about just 2001 to 2003 half the roster turned over.

 

[1960Pats]

you fell for the flash over substance media driven narrative that's infested all sports...Mahomes is better than that idiot Qb the Ravens hitched their wagon too but these "new" age QB's that use athleticism over actual studious pocket passers reading defenses have a limited shelf life. Mahomes is already showing a lot of wear and tear, not only in his legs but upstairs also. Concussions are cumulative and the way he plays will certainly lead to more.

When Cant Newton came into the league there was a NYG LB (I forget his name) who insisted that a QB had to be a pocket passer to win in the NYFL. That hasn't changed.

The worst part of the new age "thinking" is that it led to Kyler Murray getting more respect this year than Tom Brady. As Marvin Gaye asked, what's going on?

 

[SHOWTIME15]

If Tampa goes back to back only Brady and Bradshaw will have done so back to back.

Troy Aikman, John Elway, Joe Montana, and Bart Starr.

 

[1960Pats]

Maybe Brady is really 6' 5''.

For some reason I have a vivid memory of being startled when I saw the cover of a 2004 Reader's Digest with Brady and Donovan McNabb on the cover. The top of McNabb's head barely reached Brady's shoulder.

 

[everlong]

Troy Aikman, John Elway, Joe Montana, and Bart Starr.

I meant to say twice.

 

[RIpats88]

wilson isn’t in the same zip code as Mahomes.
Wilson is in the Rodgers/Lebron ilk - only cares about stats.
Mahomes is much more Brady/Jordan

I think its an Apt comparison though. Right now, due to his rookie contract the past couple years and now the lower cap hit in the first year of his new deal the team could afford a higher level of talent around him. Once his contract goes up to $30million next year and $45million the following year it is going to be much tougher to surround him with talent. especially when Tyreek Hill will account for $20milllion and Kelce $10million against the cap. Thats like $60million for 3 players.

So, there will be holes in other areas of the roster. And much like Rodgers/Wilson will be required to do more with less. He will still be successful and in it every year. But much like Rodgers/Wilson may end up losing to teams who have better defenses or alot of guys on rookie contracts.

 

[1960Pats]

This isn’t the NBA where you have 4 do-overs every round. There’s a reason why Jordan has 6, Kobe 5, Duncan 5, Shaq and Lebron 4, etc. A weaker team can win a game or two but it’s not beating a superior team 4 times out of 7.

Another thing that gets overlooked in the comparison between the NBA and NFL is that there isn't as much of an advantage finishing in first or second in the NBA. When Bill Russell was winning 11 of 13 and 8 in a row, the Celts didn't come in first quite a few times and never got a bye. They also had to play on some opponents' home courts in 4 of 7 games. Their final title in that run came in a game 7 at LA vs a Lakers team with Wilt, Elgin Baylor and Jerry West, all HOFers. Oh, and they did it with Russell as the player/coach.