Mac Jones is the Starter [Update - Mac is starting vs the Jete, says BB]

[Dingleberry]

Point him out. By all means, if you have an example, share it. But being pro-Zappe means, by extension, they are pro-Patriots. He’s a Patriot. So you cannot logically make the argument that this hypothetical person, we will call him “Poster X” since I have not been able to get one example of such a phenomenon since I joined in 2006, is anti-BB while conceding that they are just higher on Zappe than Mac.

I heard about this guy who wants Zappe to pass for 400 yards, 5 TD's every game, but the Patriots lose 38-35 every time so Bill looks bad. He kind of looks like a little horse with horn on his nose. Elusive creature, but he's out there.

 

[Rob0729]

Point him out. By all means, if you have an example, share it. But being pro-Zappe means, by extension, they are pro-Patriots. He’s a Patriot. So you cannot logically make the argument that this hypothetical person, we will call him “Poster X” since I have not been able to get one example of such a phenomenon since I joined in 2006, is anti-BB while conceding that they are just higher on Zappe than Mac.

I am not pointing anyone out. Not my style. If you look hard enough, you can find him. But I do not call out people except to them directly and only directly to specific posts they post online.

But since 2006, you have definitely seen people who have been so anti-Belichick that they practically root for the Patriots to fail so they can justify their beliefs that Belichick sucks as a coach and was just a product of Brady. If you cannot admit that, you are either blind or cannot honestly judge some posters' agendas.

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

Wouldn’t be surprised if Bill barely prepped for Chicago and is focused on NYJ. Chicago game doesn’t matter much

Is this supposed to be acceptable?

To just throw away a game like that when your team isn't even great enough to just assume you'll win 11 games this year?

Come on, this is silly. Pure copium.

I would be shocked if Bill didn't prepare well against CHI to jump to #2 in overall wins over Halas former team.

Bears loss mattered because it was listed as one of our easy wins by pretty much everyone.

Exactly. And last year we were 10-7 as a 6th seed, and so far we have not improved significantly at all, so every game counts. This isn't the old pats where we were guaranteed to win 12 games a year.

 

[Kontradiction]

I am not pointing anyone out. Not my style. If you look hard enough, you can find him. But I do not call out people except to them directly and only directly to specific posts they post online.

But since 2006, you have definitely seen people who have been so anti-Belichick that they practically root for the Patriots to fail so they can justify their beliefs that Belichick sucks as a coach and was just a product of Brady. If you cannot admit that, you are either blind or cannot honestly judge some posters' agendas.

So, in other words, this person doesn’t exist and it’s just you doing some mental gymnastics to justify how you feel instead of looking at things in an objective manner? Got it. If you want to abandon all of the core tenets of critical thinking, then you do you. Be happy. But just know that most of the rest of us don’t see it logically adding up.

I heard about this guy who wants Zappe to pass for 400 yards, 5 TD's every game, but the Patriots lose 38-35 every time so Bill looks bad. He kind of looks like a little horse with horn on his nose. Elusive creature, but he's out there.

Thanks for turning it into satire. Hopefully this will help them see how ridiculous they sound.

 

[Rob0729]

So, in other words, this person doesn’t exist and it’s just you doing some mental gymnastics to justify how you feel instead of looking at things in an objective manner? Got it. If you want to abandon all of the core tenets of critical thinking, then you do you. Be happy. But just know that most of the rest of us don’t see it logically adding up.



Thanks for turning it into satire. Hopefully this will help them see how ridiculous they sound.

He recently started another thread within the last day or so. He exists. I just not going to point him out. That's enough for you to guess who he is.

 

[Dingleberry]

So, in other words, this person doesn’t exist and it’s just you doing some mental gymnastics to justify how you feel instead of looking at things in an objective manner? Got it. If you want to abandon all of the core tenets of critical thinking, then you do you. Be happy. But just know that most of the rest of us don’t see it logically adding up.



Thanks for turning it into satire. Hopefully this will help them see how ridiculous they sound.

I'll give you (+1000) odds in the Casino that type of self awareness isn't happening

 

[p8ryts]

In keeping with the title of this thread. I don't care who starts. I want a QB that doesn't do dumb things. I want a QB that doesn't LOSE the game.

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

C'mon, give me a break. Last year everyone here talked how great Mac was running the play action or against the blitz. What changed? It's not like Mac looked like this last year. He was one of the best rookies.

Bedard says they ran two pulling guards on zappes play action and it fooled the defense. On Mac's they ran no pulling guards and the defense wasn't fooled and went with their guys leaving no one open.

That's definitely calling a different play and not just a "bs narrative". One had a higher chance of success. Chris Simms and orlovsky who watched the film are saying the same.

Now. Maybe they think Mac can handle more and are giving him a more complex offense. But a good coach would realize if it's not working go back to what worked last year with mcDaniels that made Mac successful and then work in the deep plays and shots and new offense.

Coaching is ruining this team. And everyone called it when Bill refused to hire coaches or name an OC which everyone said was stunning.

"Run more PA" will not fix Mac.

The book on Mac Jones is he is erratic vs the blitz. That means calling protections, knowing his hot read etc. Is not his forte. Running PA vs the blitz is a recepie for disaster. Running vs the blitz is harder

Running PA vs the blitz forces Mac to speed up his decision making which is something he is not good at right now.

Two things can be true at once

Mac isn't that good

But they are also making it harder for him.

Those two things are common with QBs. Not being helped by coaching, but they still aren't that great anyway.

 

[Rob0729]

Evan Lazar does a great rundown of the difference between how they call plays between Jones and Zappe with video breakdowns. Not only does he point out the actual disparity in play calls and the overall strategy like comparing both QBs first throws (Mac had a Y cross 30 yard play and Zappe had a 4 yard quick slant setting up second and short). I wish I could post it here, but I cannot cut and paste the video.

He's says it best here:

There's a clear distinction between how the Patriots call the game for Mac compared to rookie Bailey Zappe on first and second down. On the surface, Zappe gets a higher rate of play-action and more drop-backs from under center. But it ran even deeper than that with a side-by-side comparison on Monday night (pun intended).

After Further Review: How do the Patriots Get Their QB Situation Back on Track, Fix Issues vs. Mobile QBs

www.patriots.com

But here are the stats break down he has for the season which conflict with other stats posted here. I don't know where he got his stats.

Stat	Mac Jones	Bailey Zappe
Avg. Air Yards	10.4	7.4
Play-Action Rate	11.7%	26.3
Under Center Rate	12.5%	21.1%

I still question why would they on the first pass of the game with Mac Jones, who is coming back from a high ankle sprain and struggled before he went down, have a play with him holding onto the ball an extra beat or two and throwing 30 yards down the field. They should have used the Zappe and done short passes to set up a third and short and let him get into a rhythm.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

My head might explode if this subject gets more drawn out any more lol. Unless you think we're calling plays Russian Roulette style. Mac had more than a say in what's getting called. And I know I'm assuming here but you'd assume everyone in that building is geared up towards him being the guy. So no one is "making it harder" on Mac. It's exactly what you'd expect from your second year QB looking to make a big jump.

One guy is a long shot that started out at Houston Baptist. The other was drafted 15th overall. I really hope expectations are different.

I'm glad everyone is coming around to wanting more RPO/PA for Mac though. I've only been calling for this before the draft. It's year 2 and you guys are finally catching up.

 

[Pape]

My head might explode if this subject gets more drawn out any more lol. Unless you think we're calling plays Russian Roulette style. Mac had more than a say in what's getting called. And I know I'm assuming here but you'd assume everyone in that building is geared up towards him being the guy. So no one is "making it harder" on Mac. It's exactly what you'd expect from your second year QB looking to make a big jump.

One guy is a long shot that started out at Houston Baptist. The other was drafted 15th overall. I really hope expectations are different.

I'm glad everyone is coming around to wanting more RPO/PA for Mac though. I've only been calling for this before the draft. It's year 2 and you guys are finally catching up.

Making the jump... Mac's desire to want to open it up is understandable... This is when someone needs to dial it back some (the OC) by looking at what is and isn't working well... He doesn't need to go 0 to 100 in year 2 in order to progress... I think if Josh were here, he'd recognize that ... Patricia seems all too willing to do the opposite... Measured growth is better than regression, which Mac is on the verge of...

 

[p8ryts]

My head might explode if this subject gets more drawn out any more lol. Unless you think we're calling plays Russian Roulette style. Mac had more than a say in what's getting called. And I know I'm assuming here but you'd assume everyone in that building is geared up towards him being the guy. So no one is "making it harder" on Mac. It's exactly what you'd expect from your second year QB looking to make a big jump.

One guy is a long shot that started out at Houston Baptist. The other was drafted 15th overall. I really hope expectations are different.

I'm glad everyone is coming around to wanting more RPO/PA for Mac though. I've only been calling for this before the draft. It's year 2 and you guys are finally catching up.

Well said. However, I don't know about the RPO's. I just want Mac to complete a 5 yard pass when he has the opportunity instead of throwing an interception, which he passed up on the Brisker play. I also think he needs to set to throw. He threw a great dart over the middle. He set his feet, followed through, good ball. Too often he's not quite set (IMHO) and is inaccurate. He's going to get hit anyway, might as well make the play.

 

[venecol]

Point him out. By all means, if you have an example, share it. But being pro-Zappe means, by extension, they are pro-Patriots. He’s a Patriot. So you cannot logically make the argument that this hypothetical person, we will call him “Poster X” since I have not been able to get one example of such a phenomenon since I joined in 2006, is anti-BB while conceding that they are just higher on Zappe than Mac.

It's this guy. He's a well known BB hater and Patriots troll. He was calling for Mac to lose his job a month ago. He wants Bill to fail. Not sure what his handle is on the forum but Rob0 obviously does.



"New England is not doing anything they stand for,” Lombardi said. “They want to avoid losing before they win. As much as I like Mac Jones, I thought Mac Jones would protect the ball and play smarter than he’s played. Now he’s hurt with the high ankle. To me, he was in danger of either changing what he did, or he is going to lose his job. You’re not going to play in the NFL if you keep turning the ball over the way he was.”

“I’ve never seen a New England team like this,” added Lombardi. “This is so anti-Belichick. It’s so not who they are in that building. They just haven’t been themselves. And you can say, ‘Well, they don’t have an offensive coordinator!’ It’s not the plays. It’s the mistakes they’re making in the game.

You can blame it on the coaches all you want; I think that’s pretty naïve if you want to do it. ... Everything they do goes right back to their ability to protect the football. It’s as simple as it is.”

 

[Rob0729]

It's this guy. He's a well known BB hater and Patriots troll. He was calling for Mac to lose his job a month ago. He wants Bill to fail. Not sure what his handle is on the forum but Rob0 obviously does.



"New England is not doing anything they stand for,” Lombardi said. “They want to avoid losing before they win. As much as I like Mac Jones, I thought Mac Jones would protect the ball and play smarter than he’s played. Now he’s hurt with the high ankle. To me, he was in danger of either changing what he did, or he is going to lose his job. You’re not going to play in the NFL if you keep turning the ball over the way he was.”

“I’ve never seen a New England team like this,” added Lombardi. “This is so anti-Belichick. It’s so not who they are in that building. They just haven’t been themselves. And you can say, ‘Well, they don’t have an offensive coordinator!’ It’s not the plays. It’s the mistakes they’re making in the game.

You can blame it on the coaches all you want; I think that’s pretty naïve if you want to do it. ... Everything they do goes right back to their ability to protect the football. It’s as simple as it is.”

Mike Lombardi defending the Patriots coaching staff? I am shocked. It is almost like Lombardi is good friends with Bill Belichick and his son started his NFL career working under Belichick. Seriously, you are using Mike Lombardi's assessment as proof of anything? Would you take it seriously if Rex Ryan blame Belichick and Patricia for Mac Jones' regression.

But again, I am not defending Mac Jones. I think they broke the guy and it seemed pretty clear coming into the season that it was likely they would. A second year QB should be nurtured. Instead they threw him into the deep end and forced him to swim. They gave him a new playbook and forced him to throw down the field at a higher percentage than any other QB in the NFL. A lot of that is on Jones because many QBs would thrive in this situation, but many others, like Jones, sink.

I am just pointing out what most people see. There are two different play calling going on for the two QBs and they might be able to salvage their first round pick if they did a little more of what they give Zappe. But if they don't try to save Jones, they seem pretty content to accept the QB the future isn't on the roster and start over next year with a veteran or another high draft pick. Because I am sure if Belichick felt Zappe was the guy, he would be starting Zappe over Jones and not the other way around.

 

[Jim Beankie]

Mike Lombardi defending the Patriots coaching staff? I am shocked. It is almost like Lombardi is good friends with Bill Belichick and his son started his NFL career working under Belichick. Seriously, you are using Mike Lombardi's assessment as proof of anything? Would you take it seriously if Rex Ryan blame Belichick and Patricia for Mac Jones' regression.

But again, I am not defending Mac Jones. I think they broke the guy and it seemed pretty clear coming into the season that it was likely they would. A second year QB should be nurtured. Instead they threw him into the deep end and forced him to swim. They gave him a new playbook and forced him to throw down the field at a higher percentage than any other QB in the NFL. A lot of that is on Jones because many QBs would thrive in this situation, but many others, like Jones, sink.

I am just pointing out what most people see. There are two different play calling going on for the two QBs and they might be able to salvage their first round pick if they did a little more of what they give Zappe. But if they don't try to save Jones, they seem pretty content to accept the QB the future isn't on the roster and start over next year with a veteran or another high draft pick. Because I am sure if Belichick felt Zappe was the guy, he would be starting Zappe over Jones and not the other way around.

Mac's not broken. He's letting the hate flow through him as part of Darth Sidious' plan.

 

[Rob0729]

Mac's not broken. He's letting the hate flow through him as part of Darth Sidious' plan.

He looked pretty broken on Monday night. I am not ready to say he is broken beyond repair. If he plays well against the Jets, he can get his confidence back. Let's just hope they put him in a position to do it like not making the first pass of the game a 30 yard pass to whoever Sause Garner is covering.

 

[VJCPatriot]

That is a declarative statement.

Mac Jones is the starter. Bailey Zappe is the back up.

There is no controversy as far as the team is concerned.

Change my mind, if you disagree.

Unless BB made the statement, that's just wishful thinking.

I have no desire to change your mind, as everyone is entitled to an opinion, no matter how factually wrong it might be.

As for myself I'm waiting for the coach's statement.

And as far as the stats go, right now Bailey Zappe has FAR outplayed Mac Jones in 2022.:

Bailey Zappe 2022 781 passing yards 5 TDs 3 INTs 71% completion rate and a 100.9 Quarterback Rating [6th in the NFL].
Only Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, Geno Smith, Tua Tagovailoa, and Joe Burrow currently boast higher ratings.

Mac Jones 2022 799 passing yards 2 TDs 6 INTs 65% completion rate and a 70.8 Quarterback rating [34th in the NFL].

And those facts can't be changed much as one might wish it.

 

[Rob0729]

Unless BB made the statement, that's just wishful thinking.

I have no desire to change your mind, as everyone is entitled to an opinion, no matter how factually wrong it might be.

As for myself I'm waiting for the coach's statement.

And as far as the stats go, right now Bailey Zappe has FAR outplayed Mac Jones in 2022.:

Bailey Zappe 2022 781 passing yards 5 TDs 3 INTs 71% completion rate and a 100.9 Quarterback Rating [6th in the NFL].
Mac Jones 2022 799 passing yards 2 TDs 6 INTs 65% completion rate and a 70.8 Quarterback rating [34th in the NFL].

And those facts can't be changed much as one might wish it.

 

[Pape]

Unless BB made the statement, that's just wishful thinking.

BB made the statement.

Bu-bye now.

 

[VJCPatriot]

"Fully available" is a different statement from "Mac Jones is our starter against the Jets." But thanks for the clip.

That video footage report also doesn't preclude another repeat of the Bears game: Mac starts, gets in trouble, and gets yanked in favor of Zappe again.

BB is clearly playing mind games with our two young quarterbacks.

Is that really the best approach for them to create a 'rivalry' environment OR should he have made assurances to Mac Jones so as not to shatter the young QB's confidence?