Mac Jones is the Starter [Update - Mac is starting vs the Jete, says BB]

[Rob0729]

I don't know if Belichick has lost faith in Jones. He may have. But if he has, it is also damning to Zappe that Belichick isn't starting him over Jones. If he has lost faith that Jones can be the franchise, it is in Belichick's best interest to play Zappe if he thought he could be the guy.

 

[Dingleberry]

I think Phil Perry needs an explanation on what the word "continue" means. Mac hasn't earned anything this season. The best two games by a Patriots' QB this season were by some scrub who some local football geniuses have deemed a career backup. Continue earning? No, he needs to earn it now.

I wanted BB to go with the hot hand and see what Zappe could do over extended time. Now that it is going to be Mac, I really hope he is given at least the next two games no matter what. If he sucks Sunday, rustiness will be blamed. If he can't look adequate against the Colts at home, no more excuses. Let Zappe take over after the bye. I really hope Mac gets it done. There is no reason not to be 5-4 going into the bye.

Hopefully the coaches let Mac have some of the good plays they give to Zappe.

Just because Bill Belichick is my favorite sports person ever doesn't mean I am going to tongue his shyt pipe if I disagree with him. I think Zappe is better than Mac. I truly hope Mac proves me wrong.

 

[PatsFan2]

I don't know if Belichick has lost faith in Jones. He may have. But if he has, it is also damning to Zappe that Belichick isn't starting him over Jones. If he has lost faith that Jones can be the franchise, it is in Belichick's best interest to play Zappe if he thought he could be the guy.

Time will tell but Mac needs to have a good game especially against the reeling Colts @ Home next week.

 

[catent]

I don't know if Belichick has lost faith in Jones. He may have. But if he has, it is also damning to Zappe that Belichick isn't starting him over Jones. If he has lost faith that Jones can be the franchise, it is in Belichick's best interest to play Zappe if he thought he could be the guy.

No, it's not damming to Zappe. He's a rookie who's played in fewer than 5 career games.

Was it damming to Jones that he was pulled in the 1st half of his first game back, after two 3-and-outs and a turnover? By your logic, it should be.

No one said BB has lost faith in Jones. That's your own invention. Faith has nothing to do with it. Consistent performances and earning your play is what it has to do with. BB is giving Jones the opportunity to start this week. I don't necessarily agree, but I understand. Let's see if Jones can improve his play.

This whole situation is a lot more about Jones than Zappe.

 

[PatsFan2]

I think Phil Perry needs an explanation on what the word "continue" means. Mac hasn't earned anything this season. The best two games by a Patriots' QB this season were by some scrub who some local football geniuses have deemed a career backup. Continue earning? No, he needs to earn it now.

I wanted BB to go with the hot hand and see what Zappe could do over extended time. Now that it is going to be Mac, I really hope he is given at least the next two games no matter what. If he sucks Sunday, rustiness will be blamed. If he can't look adequate against the Colts at home, no more excuses. Let Zappe take over after the bye. I really hope Mac gets it done. There is no reason not to be 5-4 going into the bye.

Hopefully the coaches let Mac have some of the good plays they give to Zappe.

Just because Bill Belichick is my favorite sports person ever doesn't mean I am going to tongue his shyt pipe if I disagree with him. I think Zappe is better than Mac. I truly hope Mac proves me wrong.

I would love me some Mac crow soup too.

 

[catent]

I think Phil Perry needs an explanation on what the word "continue" means. Mac hasn't earned anything this season. The best two games by a Patriots' QB this season were by some scrub who some local football geniuses have deemed a career backup. Continue earning? No, he needs to earn it now.

I wanted BB to go with the hot hand and see what Zappe could do over extended time. Now that it is going to be Mac, I really hope he is given at least the next two games no matter what. If he sucks Sunday, rustiness will be blamed. If he can't look adequate against the Colts at home, no more excuses. Let Zappe take over after the bye. I really hope Mac gets it done. There is no reason not to be 5-4 going into the bye.

Hopefully the coaches let Mac have some of the good plays they give to Zappe.

Just because Bill Belichick is my favorite sports person ever doesn't mean I am going to tongue his shyt pipe if I disagree with him. I think Zappe is better than Mac. I truly hope Mac proves me wrong.

I agree with your timeline. The position will certainly be reevaluated going into the bye.

If Jones lights things up over the next couple games, the decision to continue playing Jones is clear.

If Jones struggles, doesn't show improvement, continues to have the same issues he has dealt with all season, over the next two games, I think it'll be Zappe coming out of the bye (if not sooner).

There could be a grey-area, where Jones is OK, better in some ways but not significantly better, and the team wins, in which case it'll be a difficult and curious decision.

The scenario that really intrigues me is if Jones lays an egg against NYJ and stinks, badly. Does BB give him another week? Or does he go with Zappe after one week?

I think if both upcoming games were on the road, Jones gets the call regardless of performance. The reason the Indy game intrigues me is that it's at home, and BB will have to entertain the possibility of Jones stinking up the joint and the potential boos / Zappe chants happening again. If it doesn't look good against NYJ, does he call it after one week?

It'll be a fascinating several weeks.

 

[mike_usagisan]

No one said BB has lost faith in Jones. That's your own invention. Faith has nothing to do with it. Consistent performances and earning your play is what it has to do with. BB appears to believe Jones still has earned the right to start and improve, which I can understand.

This whole situation is a lot more about Jones than Zappe.

I think this is right. I think there's less of a QB controversy in Bill's head than there is here or in the media. How long that lasts if Mac continues to cough up interceptions is a good question, but I'm pretty sure Bill's not willing to answer that hypothetical question.

 

[Kontradiction]

In fairness, I think there are some people who equate Jones with their anti-Belichick bias and are rooting for his failure even at the determent to the team. I don't think they are close to the majority or even a large minority. But I get that vibe from a least a few people who have trashed Belichick over the last three years even if they are not even aware they are doing it. I could be wrong though.

But there is a pretty big coincidence that most of the pro-Brady crowd have Zappe fever and trash Jones. It could be their wishful thinking that Zappe is the next Brady who takes the starting spot from the anointed starter like how Brady started his career.

You’re definitely wrong. If such a bias actually existed, not only would there be examples to point to, but those posters would be anti-Mac AND anti-Zappe. Why? Because the complete failure at the QB position would reflect badly on BB, and would make this so-called “anti-BB crowd” right. Occam’s Razor, my guy. Don’t stray from it. The most simple explanation is that the pro-Zappe crowd thinks he has more upside than Jones. You have to do some serious mental gymnastics to think there is some nefarious conspiracy afoot.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Mac arguably can do a better job selling play action.

I think that is a really big point fans are overlooking. For instance Brady was excellent at selling PA whereas Bledsoe absolutely sucked. Additionally Drew was bad at calling protections, putting players in motion, etc.

I do agree Mac last year was not bad at selling PA last year.

But there are other factors involved suggesting he has not been put in the best position to succeed with it, including the type of play called that employs PA. Also, how the running game is working plays into this.

Correct its all connected. My overall point is the entire mechanism of executing a successful play off PA is something a) Mac is not doing well and b) the coaching staff knows it.

@Rob0729 is correct. The differences in plays called for Jones and Zappe have been stark according to multiple analysts; the defining take comes from Bedard's all-22 breakdown and Bears game overview:

Greg Bedard of Boston Sports Journal // 3 Up and 3 Down // Patriots QB Situation - 10/26 (Hour 1)

(0:00) Greg Bedard of Boston Sports Journal joins the show to discuss the Patriots loss to the Bears. (13:22) The callers weigh in on all things Patriots! (23:09) 3 Up and 3 Down with Bedard! (30:35) Patriots QB and offensive situation. CONNECT WITH FELGER & MAZZ https://www.instagr

985thesportshub.com

Patriots Gameplay // Belichick’s Postgame Comments // Callers Weigh In - 10/25 (Hour 2)

(0:00) What went wrong with the Patriots last night? (13:58) Felger, Mazz, and Murray take to the callers. (24:17) Reacting to Belichick’s postgame comments. (33:10) Are you surprised Belichick played both Quarterbacks? CONNECT WITH FELGER & MAZZ https://www.instagram.com/felgerandmassaro

985thesportshub.com

What is do agree with you and Rob on is they screwed Mac up with changes to the offense and that has a negative trickle down effect on his confidence/execution running PA.

 

[Dingleberry]

There is also a romanticized vision that BB is going to go with who is performing better no matter what. What's best for the team.

Nobody, not even Belichick is going to cast away a 1st round QB in his second season before giving him every opportunity. And really, it is best for the team to find out sooner whether that first round QB is going to be the future. Now that it is decided, let Mac keep playing. I would rather watch Zappe, but let's see what we have in Mac.

 

[Tunescribe]

Lol, this week doesn't count? You specifically asked for entire season stats. I gave them to you. Now you're complaining? Whatever dude, believe what you want. I'm out.

One last point: think about what the narrative that Bedard & Perry are spinning (which has caught on) does to the team. They're in one fell swoop undermining Zappe, Patricia & Judge, which in turn makes Bill look like an ass. Is that the hot take you want to latch on to? I'm no fan of Patricia or Judge, but that take is ludicrous. Watch the film.

1). Bedard and Perry are not "spinning," they are REPORTING.

2). Nobody is "undermining" anyone, least of all Zappe. If detailing the crapshow they orchestrated Monday night makes Patricia/Judge/BB look bad, as one guy famously said, "It is what it is."

3). "Watch the film"? You're kidding -- what film do YOU watch?

 

[Rob0729]

No, it's not damming to Zappe. He's a rookie who's played in fewer than 5 career games.

Was it damming to Jones that he was pulled in the 1st half of his first game back, after two 3-and-outs and a turnover? By your logic, it should be.

No one said BB has lost faith in Jones. That's your own invention. Faith has nothing to do with it. Consistent performances and earning your play is what it has to do with. BB appears to believe Jones has earned the right to start this week and attempt to improve his play, which hasn't been good enough thus far. I don't necessarily agree, but I understand.

This whole situation is a lot more about Jones than Zappe.

I think was damning to Mac that he was pulled. But I think Belichick was wrong to pull him. I think Belichick has mishandled this entire situation. He should have either not played Jones or let him play the entire game sink or swim.

If Belichick isn't naming Jones a starter because he has to earn that back, then he lost faith in him. Doesn't mean he cannot get back it back. If he is just being stubborn and not naming a starter, that is different. Who knows with Belichick.

 

[Rob0729]

You’re definitely wrong. If such a bias actually existed, not only would there be examples to point to, but those posters would be anti-Mac AND anti-Zappe. Why? Because the complete failure at the QB position would reflect badly on BB, and would make this so-called “anti-BB crowd” right. Occam’s Razor, my guy. Don’t stray from it. The most simple explanation is that the pro-Zappe crowd thinks he has more upside than Jones. You have to do some serious mental gymnastics to think there is some nefarious conspiracy afoot.

I am almost positive there is at least one person I have described. Not going to point him out, but I have gotten into it multiple times with his irrational hate of Belichick and by extension Jones who ironically loves Zappe. Although now, I mostly ignore him.

But I do agree that most people are like you say.

 

[catent]

There is also a romanticized vision that BB is going to go with who is performing better no matter what. What's best for the team.

Nobody, not even Belichick is going to cast away a 1st round QB in his second season before giving him every opportunity. And really, it is best for the team to find out sooner whether that first round QB is going to be the future. Now that it is decided, let Mac keep playing. I would rather watch Zappe, but let's see what we have in Mac.

Not to mention that Jones is a team captain. I think some of this is about the perception of fairness to the rest of the team. Clearly the guys really adore Jones, for whatever reasons. If his last real opportunity to earn the starting role was Monday night - after how things went down - that'd probably leave a bad taste in the mouths of some. I wonder if the team leaders said something to the effect of, "it will be a lot easier for the locker-room to accept and respect a performance related decision if they feel the player was given a fair shake".

If the team was ready to contend right now, and was competing for legitimate postseason seeding, methinks Zappe is the guy starting. BB watched the team get their teeth kicked in against Chicago and realizes they simply lack too much talent (particularly in the defensive front-7) to realistically compete for a championship this season.

But those are a lot of assumptions based on nothing but my own opinion.

 

[PatsFan2]

You’re definitely wrong. If such a bias actually existed, not only would there be examples to point to, but those posters would be anti-Mac AND anti-Zappe. Why? Because the complete failure at the QB position would reflect badly on BB, and would make this so-called “anti-BB crowd” right. Occam’s Razor, my guy. Don’t stray from it. The most simple explanation is that the pro-Zappe crowd thinks he has more upside than Jones. You have to do some serious mental gymnastics to think there is some nefarious conspiracy afoot.

*Ding* *ding* *ding* that's the elephant in the room. The Maccarites want to play mental gymnastics around that observation.

 

[Kontradiction]

I am almost positive there is at least one person I have described. Not going to point him out, but I have gotten into it multiple times with his irrational hate of Belichick and by extension Jones who ironically loves Zappe. Although now, I mostly ignore him.

But I do agree that most people are like you say.

Point him out. By all means, if you have an example, share it. But being pro-Zappe means, by extension, they are pro-Patriots. He’s a Patriot. So you cannot logically make the argument that this hypothetical person, we will call him “Poster X” since I have not been able to get one example of such a phenomenon since I joined in 2006, is anti-BB while conceding that they are just higher on Zappe than Mac.

 

[Dingleberry]

*Ding* *ding* *ding* that's the elephant in the room. The Maccarites want to play mental gymnastics around that observation.

But other people outside NE think he's a career backup. So it's true.

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

If Jets are smart they'll do what IND, BUF, CHI, etc. have done, take away MOF and force Mac to throw outside the #s. An INT will eventually come (possibly pick 6).

Shouldn't it be the opposite (?), take away the flats and force Mac to the middle and deep?

 

[crawhammer]

It's not a talking point, Kontra, just an observation that this alleged "quarterback controversy" has fallen at least partially along lines of certain influence. Which includes representatives of the Tampa Bay ghetto who are conspicuously anti-Mac Jones vs. pro-Patriots playing whoever BB believes gives New England its best chance to win. I'm not the only person who has observed this. They know Zappe is not a franchise quarterback and that Mac's failure = BB's failure = back to the drawing board for finding Brady's ultimate heir, which might not happen during whatever time BB has left. This is apart from those who simply feel Zappe > Mac.

How is the quarterback controversy alleged? Belichick said the plan for Monday night was to platoon the quarterbacks. For whatever reason?... because he won't say. Regardless, he yanked Mac from the game after a horrible INT (which gave it the appearance of being performance based). With a majority of the fans chanting "Zappe." Zappe immediately leads two TD drives and at that point pretty much everyone was thinking it's Zappe's job to lose. Now because the entire team crumbled in a heap in the second half, along with Zappe, we're supposed to jump back on the Mac bandwagon? Mac didn't play well at all, and hasn't for the majority of this season, and the last 5 games of last season. He hasn't looked right since the 3-pass attempt victory over Buffalo.

Maybe Mac is the future franchise quarterback, or maybe he isn't, but if you're looking at right now, salvaging this season, Zappe has more competently run the offense this season. Yes, his height is probably going to be an issue, and he has other apparent limitations, but he's outplayed Mac and in my opinion he gives the team a better chance of winning right now. If Zappe plays like trash for an extended period of time then go back to Mac at that point (when he'll also be closer to 100% health-wise).

If either or both of these quarterbacks ultimately fail then it's a Belichick failure. That's truthfully the case whether you're pro-BB or not. Conversely if either or both of these quarterbacks ultimately succeed then it's a Belichick success. That's just the way it works. Finding the next franchise quarterback isn't impossible... look around the league... I count 8 teams with a bonafide franchise quarterback age 27 or younger. If Tua holds up then he would make 9. Do the Patriots have the possible 10th?... probably not but it's still too early to say.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

Time will tell but Mac needs to have a good game especially against the reeling Colts @ Home next week.

If Monday was any indication Indy making the qb switch does not bode well for the defense. Offense will have to perform to have any shot.