Mac: "I want to be coached harder"

[venecol]

How is he disagreeing with me? Not based on this quote. He is talking about the defense. He doesn't mention the offense. He doesn't address whether the play calling is any good.

The problem with your take is you'll assign all the blame to coaching to absolve Mac and the rest of the skill players from any accountability. I've yet to read from you that Mac has played poorly. Everyone that has eyes can see he's played poorly.

Blaming everything on the coaches is nonsense. Players have to play better. That's what Bill said and so has Warner and Ty Law. The team is playing like crap. WRs aren't getting open. When they do, Mac doesn't see them because he's looking the other way. Mac has said over and over again that he needs to work on keeping his eyes on the field. He specifically said he took extra time during the bye to work on that. Yet, he continues to fail at it. How is that on the coaching? They are telling him what he needs to do, but he's not doing it consistently.

 

[Rob0729]

The problem with your take is you'll assign all the blame to coaching to absolve Mac and the rest of the skill players from any accountability. I've yet to read from you that Mac has played poorly. Everyone that has eyes can see he's played poorly.

Blaming everything on the coaches is nonsense. Players have to play better. That's what Bill said and so has Warner and Ty Law. The team is playing like crap. WRs aren't getting open. When they do, Mac doesn't see them because he's looking the other way. Mac has said over and over again that he needs to work on keeping his eyes on the field. He specifically said he took extra time during the bye to work on that. Yet, he continues to fail at it. How is that on the coaching? They are telling him what he needs to do, but he's not doing it consistently.

LOL! I assign most of the blame on the coaching because that is where it belongs. The play calling is atrocious. The o-line is a mess in part because of the coaching.

The players have their share of the blame, but the coaching staff are putting them all in a position to fail. If the Pats had better players, they might be able to overcome the coaching but they don't.

I don't think Mac Jones is ever going to be an elite player. I think he could be a very good QB in the right situation, but he isn't a QB who can overcome horrible coaching and abysmal o-line play. And because he has been put in a bad situation, he regressed quite a bit and everything he was good at last year like pocket presence and quick decision making are now becoming weaknesses.

And yes, I blame the coaches quite a bit for that. He is a young QB who needed to coached up and put in a position to succeed. He is not. I saw someone last night say that Jones is in the situation that Trevor Lawrence was in last year. Which is probably true other than the head coach.

I am not the only one who is blaming the coaching for this offense. Many former players, more specifically former QBs, are saying that the offensive coaching is horrible.

But every you are accusing me of with being pro-Mac Jones, you are doing the same exact thing the other way being anti-Mac Jones. But you did the same thing in the Brady/Belichick debate.

Notice how you never addressed that Patricia called 11 running plays against a cover-2 defense in a game the strategy was to win the time of possession battle. Instead, they developed a strategy that required the Bills defense to make a lot of mistakes. The strategy was to throw a lot quick passes and have the Bills miss a lot of tackles. That moronic offensive strategy. Maybe you throw some plays in to capitalize on their poor tackling, but not overall strategy. Address that.

 

[venecol]

Warner said specifically the plays work against Jones' strengths. Call it play calling or strategy, Warner thinks Patricia is not putting Jones in the best position to succeed.

No he did not say that, lol. You just made that up. Show me the quote where he says: "the plays work against Jones' strengths."

What he is saying is that the schemes are simple and boring. That doesn't mean they can't work. He calls them "good quality concepts." I'll repeat exactly what he said: "good quality concepts." One more time: "good quality concepts."

He thinks Mac is probably frustrated with them. But if they are sooo simple, why can't he execute them effectively?

This is what happened:

1. Season started (1st 3 games) with more vertical concepts. Mac was top of the league in Yds/attempt. Mac proceeded to throw 6 INTs. Then he got injured. Came back, threw another pick.
2. Then a dramatic change to the short game. They don't trust Mac with the vertical game. He's back on training wheels. He's got limitations that they've observed. He hates it.

 

[Rob0729]

No he did not say that, lol. You just made that up. Show me the quote where he says: "the plays work against Jones' strengths."

What he is saying is that the schemes are simple and boring. That doesn't mean they can't work. He calls them "good quality concepts." I'll repeat exactly what he said: "good quality concepts." One more time: "good quality concepts."

He thinks Mac is probably frustrated with them. But if they are sooo simple, why can't he execute them effectively?

This is what happened:

1. Season started (1st 3 games) with more vertical concepts. Mac was top of the league in Yds/attempt. Mac proceeded to throw 6 INTs. Then he got injured. Came back, threw another pick.
2. Then a dramatic change to the short game. They don't trust Mac with the vertical game. He's back on training wheels. He's got limitations that they've observed. He hates it.

You are right. Warner didn't say Patricia taken away his strengths. He actually said that the schemes and plays have taken away Jones' SUPERPOWER. From the article:

"One of the things I loved about Mac last year is that he's so good at processing information. Sometimes last year I thought he processed information too fast, meaning he got off certain reads too quickly because they hadn't developed," Warner told ESPN.com. "This year, I think they've kind of taken his superpower away because they've simplified everything."

And thank you for proving my point that you do everything to blame Jones for everything that goes wrong with the offense. You really shouldn't throw stones when everything you say about me is just projections.

 

[venecol]

You are right. Warner didn't say Patricia taken away his strengths. He actually said that the schemes and plays hav taken away Jones' SUPERPOWER. From the article:

"One of the things I loved about Mac last year is that he's so good at processing information. Sometimes last year I thought he processed information too fast, meaning he got off certain reads too quickly because they hadn't developed," Warner told ESPN.com. "This year, I think they've kind of taken his superpower away because they've simplified everything."

And thank you for proving my point that you do everything to blame Jones for everything that goes wrong with the offense. You really shouldn't throw stones when everything you say about me is just projections.

Read again what he says before your bolded portion:

"Sometimes last year I thought he processed information too fast, meaning he got off certain reads too quickly because they hadn't developed,"

Is it possible that the coaches after watching Jones play for an entire season, observed what Warner is saying above and decided to simplify things for him? Or maybe Mac is some type of phenom that can only process very complex information but as soon as it gets simplified, he can't handle it? Yea that makes a lot of sense. That's got to be it. Mac sucks at arithmetic but is a savant at differential equations.

 

[Rob0729]

Read again what he says before your bolded portion:

"Sometimes last year I thought he processed information too fast, meaning he got off certain reads too quickly because they hadn't developed,"

Is it possible that the coaches after watching Jones play for an entire season, observed what Warner is saying above and decided to simplify things for him? Or maybe Mac is some type of phenom that can only process very complex information but as soon as it gets simplified, he can't handle it? Yea that makes a lot of sense. That's got to be it. Mac sucks at arithmetic but is a savant at differential equations.

Stop it. You are embarrassing yourself right now. Warner also said - "One of the things I loved about Mac last year is that he's so good at processing information." He said it is his superpower. He just said there were times he processed it too fast.

So you are arguing that Patricia is a horrible OC because he reviewed the tapes from last year and saw that Jones' greatest strength and something he was very good at was a liability because at times he processed too quick. And instead of trying to coach him up by trying to teach him how to slow down his mental processing in certain situations, they decided to take away Jones' greatest strength because at times it was a weakness by simplifying the offense. LOL!

You should have just admit you got it wrong that twisting yourself in knots with this stupidity.

 

[Rob0729]

BTW @venecol, here are some other quotes from the article by Matt Hasselbeck that you are more than welcome to spin.

"It's hard to watch him this year because I don't think they’re helping him out very much," said Matt Hasselbeck, an 18-year NFL quarterback who now serves as an analyst on ESPN's "Sunday NFL Countdown." "I thought he did a really great job last year -- the best quarterback in his class -- and he hasn't been nearly as good this year."

"I know Mac Jones can play. We saw it all last year," Hasselbeck said.

"I said this at the start of our show this season, after the Miami game, I was very critical of what I saw schematically. It was surprising to me that it was the Patriots," he said. "It feels like they're learning on the fly offensively."

Will Mac Jones return to his rookie form and overcome Patriots' offensive struggles?

It's been a bumpy ride this season for Jones and the Patriots' offense, but how much of it falls on the quarterback's shoulders?

www.espn.com

 

[Tunescribe]

Is it possible that the coaches after watching Jones play for an entire season, observed what Warner is saying above and decided to simplify things for him? Or maybe Mac is some type of phenom that can only process very complex information but as soon as it gets simplified, he can't handle it? Yea that makes a lot of sense. That's got to be it. Mac sucks at arithmetic but is a savant at differential equations.

No, the system was not simplified with Mac in mind. It was simplified for (A) the coaches and (B) other position players, primarily receivers. The system/playbook became very Brady-centric and increasingly complex under McDaniels, emphasizing reliance on receiver route sight adjustments and precision timing. That was too much for a new OC to absorb, especially one like Patricia with no prior expertise in coaching offense.

'It just goes faster:' With new play calls, Patriots are excited about a simplified offense

The Patriots offensive playbook changed after longtime offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels left. Patriots say it's simpler. Here's why.

www.providencejournal.com

From the article: When Brady left, Cam Newton struggled to catch on to McDaniels’ system. Last year, however, Mac Jones seemed like a good fit for the complicated offensive system, which saw receivers run different routes depending on the opposing defensive play call.

 

[Zuma]

I appreciate and like reading these back and forth conversations about Mac that are not insult-laden. Both sides making valid points.

 

[venecol]

No, the system was not simplified with Mac in mind. It was simplified for (A) the coaches and (B) other position players, primarily receivers. The system/playbook became very Brady-centric and increasingly complex under McDaniels, emphasizing reliance on receiver route sight adjustments and precision timing. That was too much for a new OC to absorb, especially one like Patricia with no prior expertise in coaching offense.

'It just goes faster:' With new play calls, Patriots are excited about a simplified offense

The Patriots offensive playbook changed after longtime offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels left. Patriots say it's simpler. Here's why.

www.providencejournal.com

From the article: When Brady left, Cam Newton struggled to catch on to McDaniels’ system. Last year, however, Mac Jones seemed like a good fit for the complicated offensive system, which saw receivers run different routes depending on the opposing defensive play call.

I agree with this. It was Ring6 that refused to accept they would simplify the system for the coaches.

But you watched the 10 minute video of Warner breaking down the plays. He pointed out Mac's issues with mechanics. He pointed out Mac's issues with vision. He also praised Mac for good throws and good decisions. But he also said Mac was moving away from a play before it had developed, which he said was an issue last year.

I know you think I'm a Mac hater. I'm not. I think Mac is a decent QB. But I also think he won't be much better than a 12 to 15 QB. I know it seems too early to draw conclusions. I agree that he was handed a sh*t sandwich with Fat Matt and god forbid Judge as QB coach. I'm just not going to use that as 100% excuse for some of his poor play in the pocket, mechanics, or not being able to see the entire field. It is what it is. We'll find out soon enough. Hopefully I'm wrong and I'll admit it if so.

 

[Zuma]

I know you think I'm a Mac hater. I'm not. I think Mac is a decent QB. But I also think he won't be much better than a 12 to 15 QB. I know it seems too early to draw conclusions. I agree that he was handed a sh*t sandwich with Fat Matt and god forbid Judge as QB coach. I'm just not going to use that as 100% excuse for some of his poor play in the pocket, mechanics, or not being able to see the entire field. It is what it is. We'll find out soon enough. Hopefully I'm wrong and I'll admit it if so.

I agree with you most of the time regarding Mac. But we differ when it comes to his potential. IMO I do think he could be a top 5 QB in the NFL with the right coaching, Oline, scheme and head screwed on right (yes I typed top 5). But that's not the case this year or the tail end of last year. I think Mac has a high ceiling but too many things have to be just right for him to excel....which I think is similar to Jimmy G.

 

[venecol]

I agree with you most of the time regarding Mac. But we differ when it comes to his potential. IMO I do think he could be a top 5 QB in the NFL with the right coaching, Oline, scheme and head screwed on right (yes I typed top 5). But that's not the case this year or the tail end of last year. I think Mac has a high ceiling but too many things have to be just right for him to excel....which I think is similar to Jimmy G.

Maybe but if that's the case we'll never see it. The talent gap between the 9ers and the Pats is as wide as the Grand Canyon.

 

[Real fan 02]

Except it worked for 20 years

Brady worked for 20 years, is in fact why it worked... Is it working now?

 

[Real fan 02]

Warner said specifically the plays work against Jones' strengths. Call it play calling or strategy, Warner thinks Patricia is not putting Jones in the best position to succeed.

And I don't give a crap about what Belichick says in a press conference. Did you really think he would say that the offensive coaching sucks? After 20 plus years I cannot believe that anyone would use a Belichick press conference as proof of what he thinks about this team.

Let's see after the season who he sides with. Either Jones is gone or Patricia and Judge (although Patricia and Judge being gone will likely be that they are re-assigned to new positions). I am betting the latter will be gone and then we will know what Belichick really thinks.

I truly think it's going to be an executive decision, the krafts most notablly Jonathan who is all about business and results. As we will have made the playoffs 1 out of the 3 years of the rebuild. We all know it's a regression this season.. I don't think Patricia and judge will be gone they will have reassigned roles. My guess is Caley gets the nod.

Bill knows how to frustrate the media he's been doing it since 2000 in New England.

 

[Real fan 02]

Really easy explanation:

2022 off season Josh leaves, and BB chooses to change the scheme, allegedly making it easier for players to react and make plays.

Hires his friends and former coaches having them handle the offense.

Training camp rolls around, reports from camp are offense doesn't even look NFL caliber.

Players most notably KB who excelled as a free agent in the real patriots offense, a energetic, positive person and fan favorite.

Clashed with Patricia on the offensive scheme, andrews and Myers speak out as well as Henry.

Season rolls around and here we are.

 

[venecol]

“We’ve got to get the ball downfield,” Bourne said following the Buffalo loss. “Mac needs more time. He’s obviously running around. So, it’s hard for him to get the ball downfield when you can’t really have time for him to throw. That’s no knock to the (offensive line), it’s just what we need to work on. Receivers can’t do anything if the ball can’t get downfield. If we can’t throw it past 5 yards, it’s just going to be a long game. ... We have played, but we can’t get to them. We’re calling them, but they’re just not working.”

I agree with Bourne, they have to get the ball downfield. Better if it's in the EZ. Receivers can't do anything if the ball can't get downfield.



Is that Bourne wide open in the back of the EZ waiving for the ball? I can't tell.

 

[slash83]

“We’ve got to get the ball downfield,” Bourne said following the Buffalo loss. “Mac needs more time. He’s obviously running around. So, it’s hard for him to get the ball downfield when you can’t really have time for him to throw. That’s no knock to the (offensive line), it’s just what we need to work on. Receivers can’t do anything if the ball can’t get downfield. If we can’t throw it past 5 yards, it’s just going to be a long game. ... We have played, but we can’t get to them. We’re calling them, but they’re just not working.”

I agree with Bourne, they have to get the ball downfield. Better if it's in the EZ. Receivers can't do anything if the ball can't get downfield.



Is that Bourne wide open in the back of the EZ waiving for the ball? I can't tell.

It is Bourne, but unfortunately it doesn't look like Mac is looking to his left in this shot.

 

[borg]

It is Bourne, but unfortunately it doesn't look like Mac is looking to his left in this shot.

Or he saw Bourne and quickly determined he didn't have the necessary arm to deliver a timely ball in the back corner to a stationary receiver while 2 DBs in the vicinity are staring him down.
He ain't Josh Allen, he's a physically underwhelming QB with a JV arm

 

[Triumph]

Is that Bourne wide open in the back of the EZ waiving for the ball? I can't tell.

Jones cant make that throw, but Patricia will be blamed for it.

The GOATs pass will get there so slooow that the DB in front of Bourne will have a play on the ball. Thornton is also open in the middle for a TD. Look at all that real estate to the right, the next Buffalo DB is 10 yards away. But you have to burn a fastball low and away leading him to the right. The top NFL QBs have the psychical ability to make these types of throws day in and day out. Kirk Cousins does and everyone calls him a bum.

There are 4 facts.

1 - Mac Jones threw 3 passes in the Buffalo 40 mph wind. Cautious and wise? Yes, but trouble was already on the horizon. During the 2022 offseason, it was widely discussed and reported that Mac would be soliciting the services of QB Guru Tom House. Improving his arm strength was tops on the agenda.

2 - In 2021 NFL teams had virtually no pro game film on Jones, but that all changed in 2022. We see lots of new comer QBs like Mike White, Zappe and Cooper Rush who is 4 - 1 look like "The Guy" until the film gets broken down and they get exposed. After the Bears game, Zappe has a problem with batted down passes at the LOS. If Zappe ever sees the ball again, any DC with a clue will tell his defense to get their arms up when facing him.

3 - The 2021 Patriots relied heavily on its RBs and Defense. The 2022 Patriots opened up the offense and tried to go for chunk passing plays and bomb TDs. The INTs and losses followed.

4 - Every throw in your picture requires an "anticipatory passer." These QBs see the plays develop on the field before they happen. The ball is in the air before the WR or TE terminates his route. Like it or not, Zappe is an anticipatory passer. So is Brady, Rogers, Cousins, Allen, Burrows, etc, etc. The other type of QB is a "reactionary passer." Obviously, they prefer to see the player/play open before making their throw. Bledsoe and Mac are in this group. IMO, Mahomes is a hybrid reactionary - anticipatory passer.

 

[archstanton543]

Jones cant make that throw, but Patricia will be blamed for it.

The GOATs pass will get there so slooow that the DB in front of Bourne will have a play on the ball. Thornton is also open in the middle for a TD. Look at all that real estate to the right, the next Buffalo DB is 10 yards away. But you have to burn a fastball low and away leading him to the right. The top NFL QBs have the psychical ability to make these types of throws day in and day out. Kirk Cousins does and everyone calls him a bum.

There are 4 facts.

1 - Mac Jones threw 3 passes in the Buffalo 40 mph wind. Cautious and wise? Yes, but trouble was already on the horizon. During the 2022 offseason, it was widely discussed and reported that Mac would be soliciting the services of QB Guru Tom House. Improving his arm strength was tops on the agenda.

Tom Brady asked for advise from Tom House. Did you have a problem with that?

Mac threw 3 times in hurricane force wins and you see that as "trouble on the horizon"? GTFO of here.