Mac and the "It Factor"

[DarrylS]

I want to like and believe that Mac is the Pats QB of the future and will continue to develop. Nothing this year has shown that he will be a top ten NFL QB, seems hesitant and fearful of the long ball.
Hard to quantify but do not see the confidence in himself to be the Pat's QB of the future..

 

[archstanton543]

I want to like and believe that Mac is the Pats QB of the future and will continue to develop. Nothing this year has shown that he will be a top ten NFL QB, seems hesitant and fearful of the long ball.
Hard to quantify but do not see the confidence in himself to be the Pat's QB of the future..

Ah so he doesn't pass your eyeball test is what you're saying.

The stats tell a completely different story. Also he's plays 2/3rds of his games this year in driving rain storms with one of the worst o-lines in the league.

 

[RIpats88]

Not sure why I'm getting dislikes on my post about Meyers.

Sure he's no #1. But he's had 80+ yards in 2 games for the raiders. Was reliable and a safety valve for Mac

Going from Meyers to juju for purely a money saving move has looked like a disaster so far. And actually juju's contract looks worse.

Unfortunately every move bill seems to make has to do with saving money and getting someone "on his terms" never about extending for talent. Especially on the offensive side of the ball.

The results speak for themselves.

Imagine if instead of juju/parker/Bourne we had Hopkins/Meyers/Bourne...

 

[RIpats88]

Ah so he doesn't pass your eyeball test is what you're saying.

The stats tell a completely different story. Also he's plays 2/3rds of his games this year in driving rain storms with one of the worst o-lines in the league.

All things considered Mac has played well. It's like the BOB thread. With a poor OL, mediocre running game (Stevenson averaging 3.1 ypc) and average receivers I'm not sure what fans expect.

Both are doing the best they can with the garbage groceries bill has given to them.

People for some reason want to act like if you put some other QB back there we are lighting it up and Superbowl bound! But I doubt all of a sudden if we put Purdy or Tua back there Bourne/parker turn into hill/deebo and we are scoring 30. Switch teams and Mac is probably lighting it up with them and fans are blaming tua/purdy

But I guess it's easier than blaming Bill. Even when he ignores glaring weaknesses that fans could see coming a mile away. Same as last year.

Bill hasn't seriously invested in the receiver position in years. Maybe Brandon cooks trade? Was ready to trade Gronk away to Detroit with no backup plan in 2018 and left the cupboard bare for Brady in 2019 in an offense that looked worse than this year.

 

[TomPatriot]

Right now, he’s a serviceable, average NFL starter. With better weapons he might be better. He’s the kind of QB BB once said he could win with. He might be right, but Mac needs more help on the OL and at WR to elevate his game.

 

[Pats1971]

It is a QB stat
There isn't a signature win either lol
Mac's fine he limited the turnovers vs a elite defense and made the plays that he had too
The season is still long, but as of now he's still just meh

Well not really, he needed to make more plays but luckily, they had a Qb that cant throw a forward pass, so that helps. Not sure that is sustainable though

 

[Pats1971]

Right now, he’s a serviceable, average NFL starter. With better weapons he might be better. He’s the kind of QB BB once said he could win with. He might be right, but Mac needs more help on the OL and at WR to elevate his game.

Win what with him?

 

[Thelonious]

And the correct answer is...tahdah...We don't know yet. But we do have our suspicions. Here are mine. Please bear in mind that I have only played football in back yards. When I was 14 or so, (evading a tackler) I ran headfirst into a big pine tree and cracked a cervical vertebrae which I had to have fused over 50 years later to make my arms work right, which they now do. So I've been on IR for decades: not good. When it comes to football, I am what you call a bust. I am soft and injury-prone. With that in mind:

1) We do know that Mac is not The Problem, I think, but we don't yet know that he is The Solution. To me, that sums it up. If he is in some respects the solution, he is not the solution of all our problems. He is not, that is, Tom Brady. Nobody is, not even Tom Brady any more (I think).

2) Mac is tough. He hangs in there, even when he's about to get clobbered. He is uber-competitive. I think Scrotumgate shows that he will do just about anything to win, however naughty.

3) He's smart. He sees what's there and responds accordingly, within the limits of...

4)...his arm strength, which is adequate, just. But there have been other successful qb's with the same degree of limitation in this area. His deep balls tend to be of the wait-and-see variety from a receiver's perspective. His deep throws follow a bloopy, eephus pitch inverted catenary arc through the sky and land, eventually, in the right place. You just have to hope none of the pass defenders notice it floating along up there. Failing a db breakdown, the deep crosser is not in the cards. Mac's arm is not a deal breaker, but it certainly isn't a deal maker. So it goes.

5) It seems to me Mac has had the lousiest support - both coaching and in surrounding talent - of any first-round qb in some time, if ever. To me this is inexcusable. The blame falls on Bill. Last year's (mis)management of the coaching situation - hiring your incompetent buddies purely because they are your buddies, ignoring their utter unsuitedness to the job - would be fire-able offense in the sort of Draconian world old curmudgeons like me would like to see. If Bill were capable of honesty, which he may not be, he would admit his failure. I would respect that. Basically they owe Mac a year, but I'm not sure how they go about providing it.

6) Because last year was an utter waste of time both with respect to Mac's development and as a basis for ANY evaluation of his abilities, it might take an extra year to determine whether he is a worthy "franchise qb" or not. He's either "good enough" or "not quite good enough," I suppose. Given his ill-treatment and the stumblebums Bill has running routes for him, it would be a shame if we were to give up on him, when his failings, such as they are, might be none of his fault at all.

7) So it's a pain in the neck, sorta like my own football career.

 

[TomPatriot]

Win what with him?

Football games? Idk, BB didn’t specify.

 

[reflexblue]

I don't know if mac has it, in three years hes had three different OCs and never had a decent O-line. If fact the o-line has stunk going back to bradys last year here

 

[203Pat]

Not sure why I'm getting dislikes on my post about Meyers.

Sure he's no #1. But he's had 80+ yards in 2 games for the raiders. Was reliable and a safety valve for Mac

Going from Meyers to juju for purely a money saving move has looked like a disaster so far. And actually juju's contract looks worse.

Unfortunately every move bill seems to make has to do with saving money and getting someone "on his terms" never about extending for talent. Especially on the offensive side of the ball.

The results speak for themselves.

Imagine if instead of juju/parker/Bourne we had Hopkins/Meyers/Bourne...

I didn't like the move at the time and was told multiple times how much of an upgrade Juju is over Jakobi. We didn't even really save that much money. Jakobi was Team Mac last year and Bill let him walk.

 

[yukon cornelius]

And the correct answer is...tahdah...We don't know yet. But we do have our suspicions. Here are mine. Please bear in mind that I have only played football in back yards. I ran headfirst into a big pine tree and cracked a cervical vertebrae when I was twelve or so, which I had to have fused 60 years later to make my arms work right, which they now do. So when it comes to football, I am what you call a bust. I am soft and injury-prone. With that in mind:

1) We do know that Mac is not The Problem, I think but we don't yet know that he is The Solution. To me, that sum it up. If he is in some respects the solution, he is not the solution of all our problems. He is not, that is, Tom Brady. Nobody is, not even Tom Brady any more (I think).

2) Mac is tough. He hangs in there, even when he's about to get clobbered. He is uber-competitive. I think Scrotumgate shows that he will do just about anything to win, however naughty.

3) He's smart. He sees what's there and responds accordingly, within the limits of...

4)...his arm strength is adequate, just. But there have been other successful qb's with the same degree of limitation in this area. His deep balls tend to be of the wait-and-see variety from a receiver's perspective. His deep throws follow a bloopy, eephus pitch inverted catenary arc through the sky and land, eventually, in the right place. You just have to hope none of the pass defenders notice it floating along up there. Failing a db breakdown, the deep crosser is not in the cards. Mac's arm is not a deal breaker, but it certainly isn't a deal maker. So it goes.

5) It seems to me Mac has had the lousiest support - both coaching and in surrounding talent - of any first-round qb in some time, if ever. To me this is inexcusable. The blame falls on Bill. Last year's (mis)management of the coaching situation - hiring your incompetent buddies purely because they are your buddies, ignoring their utter unsuitedness to the job - would be fire-able offense in the sort of Draconian world old curmudgeons like me would like to see. If Bill were capable of honesty, which he may not be, he would admit his failure. I would respect that. Basically they owe him a year, but I'm not sure how they go about providing it.

6) Because last year was an utter waste of time both with respect to Mac's development and as a basis for ANY evaluation of his abilities, it might take an extra year to determine whether he is a worthy "franchise qb" or not. He's either "good enough" or "not quite good enough," I suppose. Given his ill-treatment and the stumblebums Bill has running routes for him, it would be a shame if we were to give up on him, when his failings, such as they are, might be none of his fault at all.

7) So it's a pain in the neck, sorta like my own football career.

agree with mostly all of this.......i think what we tend to forget is (re) building around a 1st round draft pick is a lot "easier" when you're picking in the top 5; chances are you've had high draft picks in previous years, and will have a few more

patriots were perennially drafting at the bottom of the 1st round, and in their great rebuild era their average 1st round pick is 24/25, and that's throwing out the year with no 1st rounder....their best picks in that era have been 15 & 17, and i think they did pretty well on both of those.....15 had to be a QB, and they got what, the 2nd best, if you put justin lawrence up against mac, and that's arguable?

in the same area, 2018-2023, jacksonville has had two #1s plus two other top 10 picks (and ALL of their picks the previous 5 years with top 10 haha)

since 2018 the bears have only had 2 other first round picks beyond fields, but both were top 10........

 

[Kasmir]

Mac is now 14th in QB DVOA -- ahead of Trevor Lawrence and all the other 2021 class QB's (those who are still starting).

It's too early in the season for opponent adjustments, so DVOA == VOA right now, i.e. no bonus or malus for strength of the opposing defense.

"Not great, not terrible".

The 2021 QB class may end up being one of the worst all-time given that 5 QB's went in the top 15 and none are great so far.

Let's hope we don't have to drink from a poisoned well again.

 

[Thelonious]

Not sure why I'm getting dislikes on my post about Meyers.

Sure he's no #1. But he's had 80+ yards in 2 games for the raiders. Was reliable and a safety valve for Mac

Going from Meyers to juju for purely a money saving move has looked like a disaster so far. And actually juju's contract looks worse.

Unfortunately every move bill seems to make has to do with saving money and getting someone "on his terms" never about extending for talent. Especially on the offensive side of the ball.

The results speak for themselves.

Imagine if instead of juju/parker/Bourne we had Hopkins/Meyers/Bourne...

Agree completely. Knowing what we now know, I see essentially no legitimate argument or data set to suggest that this transaction was anything other than an asinine mistake. The GM blew it, period. Maybe he listened to the HC on the matter: he shouldn't have, obviously. It's not as if it took any unusual insight or expertise to see at the time just how stupid a move it was, as many, including yours truly, did.

Sit him. Now. He stinks.

 

[Thelonious]

OT: Adam Jones is an ass.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

Mac is now 14th in QB DVOA -- ahead of Trevor Lawrence and all the other 2021 class QB's (those who are still starting).

It's too early in the season for opponent adjustments, so DVOA == VOA right now, i.e. no bonus or malus for strength of the opposing defense.

"Not great, not terrible".

The 2021 QB class may end up being one of the worst all-time given that 5 QB's went in the top 15 and none are great so far.

Let's hope we don't have to drink from a poisoned well again.

Mac=Vegetable Lasagna

 

[Thelonious]

Would having a separate thread for Scrotumgate tidy up the discussion at all?

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Not sure why I'm getting dislikes on my post about Meyers.

Sure he's no #1. But he's had 80+ yards in 2 games for the raiders. Was reliable and a safety valve for Mac

Going from Meyers to juju for purely a money saving move has looked like a disaster so far. And actually juju's contract looks worse.

Unfortunately every move bill seems to make has to do with saving money and getting someone "on his terms" never about extending for talent. Especially on the offensive side of the ball.

The results speak for themselves.

Imagine if instead of juju/parker/Bourne we had Hopkins/Meyers/Bourne...

I agree that JuJu looks like a mistake, but Hopkins would have been a mistake too. $5M for Parker is short money, and Hopkins stats are nothing to write home about.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Mac is now 14th in QB DVOA -- ahead of Trevor Lawrence and all the other 2021 class QB's (those who are still starting).

It's too early in the season for opponent adjustments, so DVOA == VOA right now, i.e. no bonus or malus for strength of the opposing defense.

"Not great, not terrible".

The 2021 QB class may end up being one of the worst all-time given that 5 QB's went in the top 15 and none are great so far.

Let's hope we don't have to drink from a poisoned well again.

Thanks for the update. I am hopeful that the OL will be better, and Mac and the WRs will settle into BOB's system and improve. We will see. Mac looks better by the eye test, but still not completely comfortable.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

Would having a separate thread for Scrotumgate tidy up the discussion at all?

It's "junkgate"!!!