Mac Ahead of Where Manning Was His Rookie Year

[amfootball]

The INTs were the stat that really stood out. 12 INTs through 5 games was a little nuts. I was surprised by that.

I agree. But some of that was that the Colts team Manning played on was complete crap and he was also a push the ball type of QB. Mac is being coached to just take what is in front of him. I will take efficiency over hero ball any day but I really don't think that proves in any way that Mac is ahead of Manning especially when you look at the state of the league today vs 1998.

 

[Ross12]

For those interested:

Andrew Luck first five games: 2-3 W/L, 118/221 (53.4%), 1488 yards passing, 7 TDs, 7 INTs

 

[Ian]

This is apples to oranges. It is better to compare Mac to the great rookie QBs of the last 5 years as a balanced viewpoint - Murray, Allen, Mahomes, Mayfield, Herbert, Lamar.

First Five Games as a Rookie:

Kyler Murray:
Record: 1-3-1
Stats: 126-of-201 (62.7%) 1,324yds 4 TDs, 4 INTs

Josh Allen:
Record: 2-3
Stats: 69-of-124 (55.6%) 758yds 2 TDs 5 INTs

Baker Mayfield:
Record: 1-4
Stats: 113-of-200 (56.5%) 1,270yds 8 TDs, 6 INTs

Justin Herbert:
Record: 1-4
124-of-184 (67.4%) 1,542yds 12 TDs, 3 INTs

All I got out of this is that given Herbert's performances, they were a bad football team

 

[everlong]

Just goes to show that even when everything goes right for your rookie QB you can still lose 9 games (including 45-0 at home to Cam Newton).

Yep. I probably had higher hopes for this year than I should have but none of that has to do with Jones. The OL and Front 7 have been somewhere between awful to fair all year long. You're not going to do well with the fronts on both sides of the ball playing like that.

 

[Brotherblues]

Instead of criticizing the site owner for offering comparisons that trigger you, how bout offering what you believe is a better comparison.
Much "appreciated"

It wasn't bad or malicious or ill intended criticism. Just a valid observation imo.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I just dug these numbers out:



Again, not saying he's Manning by any means, this is obviously just a reminder to those who seem to be dismissing him that even the great ones took time to come into their own. I didn't do the Brady comparison because as we know, that's been discussed enough. But seeing these totals, while we don't know what type of player he'll eventually be, Jones is obviously off to a pretty good start.

Glad this wasn't a comparison of Mac to TB12's first year as starter...people would go nuts on here

 

[Ross12]

First Five Games as a Rookie:

Kyler Murray:
Record: 1-3-1
Stats: 126-of-201 (62.7%) 1,324yds 4 TDs, 4 INTs

Josh Allen:
Record: 2-3
Stats: 69-of-124 (55.6%) 758yds 2 TDs 5 INTs

Baker Mayfield:
Record: 1-4
Stats: 113-of-200 (56.5%) 1,270yds 8 TDs, 6 INTs

Justin Herbert:
Record: 1-4
124-of-184 (67.4%) 1,542yds 12 TDs, 3 INTs

All I got out of this is that given Herbert's performances, they were a bad football team

Herbert's numbers really pop off the screen comparatively, yet he had the worst record. Football is truly a team sport.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Herbert's numbers really pop off the screen comparatively, yet he had the worst record. Football is truly a team sport.

Mac is definitely lacking a bit in the TD department...I would say that's mostly on McDaniels for not allowing him to throw in the red zone.

 

[everlong]

First Five Games as a Rookie:

Kyler Murray:
Record: 1-3-1
Stats: 126-of-201 (62.7%) 1,324yds 4 TDs, 4 INTs

Josh Allen:
Record: 2-3
Stats: 69-of-124 (55.6%) 758yds 2 TDs 5 INTs

Baker Mayfield:
Record: 1-4
Stats: 113-of-200 (56.5%) 1,270yds 8 TDs, 6 INTs

Justin Herbert:
Record: 1-4
124-of-184 (67.4%) 1,542yds 12 TDs, 3 INTs

All I got out of this is that given Herbert's performances, they were a bad football team

I would add that they also had a bad coach but they also lost 7 one possession games. This year they've already won 3 one possesion games.

I was simply using Herbert as the best of recent memory. I have no complaints with Jones. I don't know why people would at this point. If Jones continues to progress there's nothing saying he won't be looking in year two like Herbert is.

 

[amfootball]

First Five Games as a Rookie:

Kyler Murray:
Record: 1-3-1
Stats: 126-of-201 (62.6%) 1,324yds 4 TDs, 4 INTs

Josh Allen:
Record: 2-3
Stats: 69-of-124 (55.6%) 758yds 2 TDs 5 INTs

Baker Mayfield:
Record: 1-4
Stats: 113-of-200 (56.5%) 1,270yds 8 TDs, 6 INTs

Justin Herbert:
Record: 1-4
124-of-184 (67.4%) 1,542yds 12 TDs, 3 INTs

All I got out of this is that given Herbert's performances, they were a bad football team

Good stuff. I think we should keep this going for the rest of the season to see where things settle with Mac.

I think you should include some of the advanced stats like AY/A, Y/A and CPA because I believe Mac is bottom half to bottom third in those areas and those types of advanced stats matter over just the volume ones as they indicate the type of plays the QB is making that actually correlates to winning games.

 

[archstanton543]

This is apples to oranges. It is better to compare Mac to the great rookie QBs of the last 5 years as a balanced viewpoint - Murray, Allen, Mahomes, Mayfield, Herbert, Lamar.

Mahomes sat on the bench for a year.

 

[Ian]

Notes - I updated Mayfield and Allen's totals - the first chart I was using didn't note what was a start, so I updated it after I found a different one that broke it down a little better.

 

[jdlboot14]

This is apples to oranges. It is better to compare Mac to the great rookie QBs of the last 5 years as a balanced viewpoint - Murray, Allen, Mahomes, Mayfield, Herbert, Lamar.

Not necessarily. How many of those guys are going to play 15+ years and win multiple SB's? They're all big play stars right now, but I bet the house that half of them will have major injuries before 10yrs, and only 3 will even win 1SB. Mac plays a style and in an organization that allows for maturation and long term success. None of those other franchises have proved that yet (except for the Bills of the early 90's). And, until we see a running QB last 10+ years, or win multiple SB's (let alone consistent deep playoff runs) and near the top of all time records, I won't trust it until I see it.

 

[Rob0729]

Herbert last year. I will say Herbert's OL last year was 2X as good as what Jones has had for protection this year.

View attachment 36543

Herbert also had the benefit of a legitimate #1 WR and overall better receiving corp.

Also, the Chargers just let him air it out without managing him like Jones is being managed.

That said, I am not sure that Jones will ever be close to the QB that Herbert is and will be.

 

[Rob0729]

you know Ian,

id appreciate it if you compare Macs numbers to rookies who actually played in the same nfl that Mac did.


manning played in an nfl in 98 where rules did not favor the offense like they do today. Rookie year manning would throw for 40 TDS under today’s rules

Imagine what that means that Zach Wilson already has 9 INTs this season.

 

[fnordcircle]

Where is Mac at this point in his rookie season compared to a QB who never quite made it?

Say...for instance Mark Sanchez?

 

[sb1]

Not quite apples to apples since Jimmy’s first start was in his 3rd year and the trade was in his 4th but here are JG’s first 5 starts for comparison:
@ ARI 24-33 264 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT
@ MIA 18-26, 234 Yards, 3 TD, 0 INT (but didn’t finish the game)
Trade to 49ers
@CHI 26-37 293 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT
@HOU 20-33 334 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT
vs TEN 31-43 381 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT

 

[Ian]

Where is Mac at this point in his rookie season compared to a QB who never quite made it?

Say...for instance Mark Sanchez?

Mark Sanchez
Record: 3-2
75-of-134 (56%) 916yds 5 TDs, 5 INTs

OK ... I feel like you must have seen this somewhere and that's why you mentioned it?

 

[203Pat]

Anyone comparing Herbert to Mac at this point is insane. Maybe Mac does end up as a better QB but right now Herbert is lightyears ahead of Mac and his ceiling looks to be a mile higher right now.

 

[Ian]

Anyone comparing Herbert to Mac at this point is insane. Maybe Mac does end up as a better QB but right now Herbert is lightyears ahead of Mac and his ceiling looks to be a mile higher right now.

I believe Mac will likely go down the road we saw with Brady and hopefully get stronger as his career goes on. Herbert has a rocket for an arm while as a rookie, Mac's obviously not where he'll eventually be from that standpoint. I had media access back in 2000 and I remember seeing Brady and how skinny he was. Obviously, a year later and even a couple of years after that, things changed and his arm got better.

The fact Mac is smart and accurate with the football is clearly one of his most positive attributes. While he'll likely not reach Herbert's level arm-wise, if his own arm strength improves, that will only make him even better.