Lombardi's Thoughts on Malcolm Butler

[PatsBoy12]

Dude. You seem to not understand this.

Paying for a players past is taking a guy like say mangold and making him the highest paid C in the NFL.
Paying for a guys future is saying for the next 4 years there is no way in hell mangold will still be the best C in the NFL.

Paying for their past ignores age, decline, system.

Paying for their future means you take those things into consideration and pay them based on the value they will give you going forward and notcthr value they had before, elsewhere, in their prime.

I understood and understand what you're saying. I even agree. I just do not completely agree. I'm not arguing with your point, so much as I'm saying past performance is a factor, except with a player that has passed his prime. Pro athletes have essentially said the same thing.

 

[Ring 6]

I understood and understand what you're saying. I even agree. I just do not completely agree. I'm not arguing with your point, so much as I'm saying past performance is a factor, except with a player that has passed his prime. Pro athletes have essentially said the same thing.

I have no idea what you are saying here.
If you are saying past performance is a factor in projecting future performance, duh.

The point is that players should be paid based upon what they will be not what they were.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

I've still have not forgotten about how Curtis Martin left. You kind of have to keep some of your powder dry just in case a contender in the AFC signs him to a deal that's difficult to match.

Poison pill offers like the one used to get Martin that NE could not possibly match have been outlawed by the NFL.

 

[resdubwhite]

Where did you read this?

Malcolm Butler reportedly "dissatisfied" with current contract situation

 

[patfanken]

I would have liked to have seen us extend Malcolm, but I expect they'll get an offer and then we'll match because any team willing to give up a 1st is probably not going to be looking at giving him the most competitive deal.

I'm sure Malcolm is annoyed he hasn't made the bajillions yet after all that has gone down, I would be. But I suspect that rolling around in millions of dollars will help with that.

IIRC you can't redo a rookie's deal. I think you have to have 2 years in before they can extend your contract. I'm not 100% sure, but I think I recall something to that effect. That being said there are days when I don't recall what I had for lunch.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Malcolm Butler reportedly "dissatisfied" with current contract situation

Thanks for the link.

 

[patfanken]

Where is the talk about Butler being pissed coming from. It sure isn't coming from the Pats. All evidence would suggest just the opposite. The Pats came out today and tendered all their RFA's EXCEPT Butler. Why would they do that unless they were making progress on a deal with Butler and need some time to finish it up or come together on some specific issues.

Putting a 1st round tag on Butler would be a no brainer if they weren't close. The fact of the matter is that the Pats don't HAVE to pay Butler more than $4MM next season. They fact that they are bothering to work on a deal that would pay him significantly more just show how much they value what he's accomplished.

RFA is just a part of a player's life. Clearly it is something that is to the team's benefit, just like UFA is to the player's (when he's good). There is nothing for the player to be pissed at. It is what it is.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

they have tendered Malcolm, doesn't mean they're not still working on a deal or won't work one out. Half of these reports that come out from the mediots might have some factual truth and 50% is being generous.

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

I wonder how our cap situation will look after next year. Alot of big free agents including butler but we manage the cap well so we might have the cap space.

 

[resdubwhite]

Where is the talk about Butler being pissed coming from. It sure isn't coming from the Pats. All evidence would suggest just the opposite. The Pats came out today and tendered all their RFA's EXCEPT Butler. Why would they do that unless they were making progress on a deal with Butler and need some time to finish it up or come together on some specific issues.

Putting a 1st round tag on Butler would be a no brainer if they weren't close. The fact of the matter is that the Pats don't HAVE to pay Butler more than $4MM next season. They fact that they are bothering to work on a deal that would pay him significantly more just show how much they value what he's accomplished.

RFA is just a part of a player's life. Clearly it is something that is to the team's benefit, just like UFA is to the player's (when he's good). There is nothing for the player to be pissed at. It is what it is.

you can't rule out an emotional response from the player even if the rules are the rules. Butlers value will likely never be higher. We have to accept that as a possibility

 

[patfanken]

you can't rule out an emotional response from the player even if the rules are the rules. Butlers value will likely never be higher. We have to accept that as a possibility

Actually his value WILL be higher IF he plays as well this season as last.

BTW- since my last post I found out the Pats HAVE tagged Butler with a first round tag. I'm not sure how long they have to negotiate a LT deal at this point. IIRC franchise tags are sometime in june

 

[slash83]

If the Pats lose Jones Collins HT and Butler ill punch BB in the face.

 

[AzorianPats]

If the Pats lose Jones Collins HT and Butler ill punch BB in the face.

Why? They're more than likely to win the SB again.

 

[resdubwhite]

Actually his value WILL be higher IF he plays as well this season as last.

BTW- since my last post I found out the Pats HAVE tagged Butler with a first round tag. I'm not sure how long they have to negotiate a LT deal at this point. IIRC franchise tags are sometime in june

From the player's perspective I'm sure he's looking for more certainty. It's a business. We all know that.
I just hope it's settled soon.

 

[PittPatriot]

Agreed. I wouldn't mind losing butler for a 1st and drafting a promising CB who will be cheap for the next 4-5 years. Then we can sign Bennett and Hightower again.

Sounds good...but how many years did we go between drafted #1 caliber corners?
7?
I woundn't bank on just drafting a replacement that fits so well in our system so effectively.
I have tremendous respect and appreciation for Malcolm Butler and I want him to remain a Patriot through the prime of his career.

 

[PittPatriot]

I can't think of it ever happening with a first. I think Sean Gilbert 100 years ago was signed as a tagged guy and cost 2 1sts. Of course that turned out to be a terrible move.

Sean Gilbert, his nephew Darelle Revis, and our very own Ty Law all have 3 things in common:
Great players who were never shy about the money and all hail from Aliquippa High School.

I took my SAT as a 7th grader about 3 tables over from Sean Gilbert and must have outscored him as he was prop-48 at Pitt.

 

[PittPatriot]

Yep, they just pulled him off the scrap heap and helped turn him into a star player who has two rings and he's got upwards of 50-60 million heading his way. They have really screwed him.

By the way, count me out of the rhetoric that BB "made him" or "pulled him off the scrap heap." A hard-working kid like that who has shown such ability would have made it somewhere.
Lucky for Butler and the Patriots they found each other.

 

[nabwong]

Sounds good...but how many years did we go between drafted #1 caliber corners?
7?
I woundn't bank on just drafting a replacement that fits so well in our system so effectively.
I have tremendous respect and appreciation for Malcolm Butler and I want him to remain a Patriot through the prime of his career.

Of course. But everyone has a price or in this case value. I'm pretty sure he'll re-sign anyway.

 

[Ivan]

By the way, count me out of the rhetoric that BB "made him" or "pulled him off the scrap heap." A hard-working kid like that who has shown such ability would have made it somewhere.
Lucky for Butler and the Patriots they found each other.

Possibly, but when someone gives you the opportunities Belichick has given Butler there should be some measure of gratitude for that imo. Could they have extended him earlier, possibly, but without actually what has been offered and rejected it's impossible to know where the responsibility for the lack of progress on s new deal lies. Butler has every right to reject the Patriots offers if he wants but he shouldn't be upset that he doesn't have a new deal and more money if he's the one who has been turning down their offers. If that's the case then he can gamble on getting more elsewhere, that's his choice, but he shouldn't be angry at the Patriots that he turned more money down.

I'm not suggesting the Patriots are always right on their offers, I think they should have torn up Edelman's deal and extended him at least a year ago, but they shouldn't be expected to give Butler Josh Norman's deal just because he thinks he's worth whatever idiotic money Daniel Snyder throws around.

When the first day of free agency was over last year I knew the Patriots were in trouble when it came to signing their upcoming free agents, because the money teams like the Jags and Giants were giving to good but not great players was ridiculous, and that established a new market where good players were going to want money that should be reserved for guys who are headed to the Hall of Fame. Much as I like Hightower and Butler I don't blame Belichick one bit for saying no if they are asking for fifteen million a season, and I think the teams handing those deals out like candy are idiots. The market is way out of whack right now and I think the Patriots are being smart not to go along with it even if it means losing some really talented players.

 

[Ivan]

By the way, count me out of the rhetoric that BB "made him" or "pulled him off the scrap heap." A hard-working kid like that who has shown such ability would have made it somewhere.
Lucky for Butler and the Patriots they found each other.

And while you may be right that Butlers work ethic would have gotten him a job in the NFL , I think dismissing the level of coaching he has received from Belichick and Patricia,as well as his position coaches, in his success is foolhardy, those coaches played a vital role in helping Butler turn into the player he has become.