Lombardi's Thoughts on Malcolm Butler

[Ring 6]

like gronk and the prisoner. Butler is a weird case. Not drafted. Older coming off a rookie contract. Negotiations appear at standstill. I wish him well and hope he gets a great deal at some stage. Whether it's here or not.

Why do you say negotiations are at a standstill?
Tendering him is not an event it is a technicality.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm sure that part of the reason that the talks broke down is that the Patriots
want the 3.9 million RFA year included as part of the overall contract. They
did the same thing years ago with Deon Branch and the remaining 5th year
of his contract. Seattle was willing to tear the last year up.
Signing with the Patriots is like going to college. Four or five years and hit the road.

There is no credible evidence that talks broke down.

 

[resdubwhite]

Why do you say negotiations are at a standstill?
Tendering him is not an event it is a technicality.

We're not privy to negotiations.
But it's been reported that he is unhappy with lack of progress with negotiations. We can choose to believe them or take with a pinch of salt.

 

[50-yard-line]

So unless someone offers him ridiculous money (and is willing to lose a 1st as well), the Pats get him for under 4m this year and can tag him next year for a two year/10m-per run.

He'll be 29 at the end of that run.

 

[Ring 6]

We're not privy to negotiations.
But it's been reported that he is unhappy with lack of progress with negotiations. We can choose to believe them or take with a pinch of salt.

Well no it's been reported that he is unhappy with his contract situation. Of course he is because he is a pro bowl player stuck in an RFA year.
I have seen nothing reported saying he is unhappy with the negotiations. Please link me to something if I am wrong.

 

[resdubwhite]

Well no it's been reported that he is unhappy with his contract situation. Of course he is because he is a pro bowl player stuck in an RFA year.
I have seen nothing reported saying he is unhappy with the negotiations. Please link me to something if I am wrong.

I give up. You win. Well done.

 

[Jimke]

So unless someone offers him ridiculous money (and is willing to lose a 1st as well), the Pats get him for under 4m this year and can tag him next year for a two year/10m-per run.

He'll be 29 at the end of that run.

Why would the Patriots tag him next year? I believe they will let him try free agency
and save more than 16 mil.

 

[Ring 6]

I give up. You win. Well done.

Not sure what you mean. If there is a report that says that it's important.
I haven't seen one so I'm wondering if you misinterpreted or I missed something.
It's a discussion not a competition

 

[Ring 6]

So unless someone offers him ridiculous money (and is willing to lose a 1st as well), the Pats get him for under 4m this year and can tag him next year for a two year/10m-per run.

He'll be 29 at the end of that run.

Why wouldn't the patriots sign him to an extension? Everything I have heard says that is being negotiated

 

[50-yard-line]

Why wouldn't the patriots sign him to an extension? Everything I have heard says that is being negotiated

I think they will - I'm saying this if they can't. Right now, they can have him for <10m/per for his 27 and 28-year-old seasons.

 

[deroc5050]

They better find a way to lock Butler up. Even if no one takes up the offer for the 1st round tender I hope they work out a 4 year deal.

 

[Nikolai]

The Distinction is important.
Players don't get paid because they deserve it, they get paid because it's their time.

I came here to say that. It's not about deserving. BB pays for what he projects to be their output and relative to their importance to the team, while staying within the financially responsible constraints he's worked within for the last 17 years. BB doesn't pay for past performance; teams like the Dolphins and Redskins do.

 

[PatsBoy12]

We're not privy to negotiations.
But it's been reported that he is unhappy with lack of progress with negotiations. We can choose to believe them or take with a pinch of salt.

Where did you read this?

 

[PatsBoy12]

I came here to say that. It's not about deserving. BB pays for what he projects to be their output and relative to their importance to the team, while staying within the financially responsible constraints he's worked within for the last 17 years. BB doesn't pay for past performance; teams like the Dolphins and Redskins do.

I would argue that contracts are based on both past performance, which is used as a barometer for future performance.

 

[Ring 6]

I came here to say that. It's not about deserving. BB pays for what he projects to be their output and relative to their importance to the team, while staying within the financially responsible constraints he's worked within for the last 17 years. BB doesn't pay for past performance; teams like the Dolphins and Redskins do.

But he also doesn't say hey you are a good player and still in your rookie contract so i am going to pay you like a veteran because you deserve that since you are good.
The entire key to winning in this capped system is maximizing how much you get from players that are in their rookie contracts.

 

[Ring 6]

I would argue that contracts are based on both past performance, which is used as a barometer for future performance.

Disagree because if you are a 32 year old corner you don't get a 4 year deal based upon how you played at 29-32.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Disagree because if you are a 32 year old corner you don't get a 4 year deal based upon how you played at 29-32.

But that's because age changes the equation in that case. Butler is young and has not yet reached his prime. At 32 your best years are behind you.

 

[Ring 6]

But that's because age changes the equation in that case. Butler is young and has not yet reached his prime. At 32 your best years are behind you.

Which is why you base what you pay on the future rather than the past.
Age is exactly why you do that.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Which is why you base what you pay on the future rather than the past.
Age is exactly why you do that.

I disagree with that. Projection and potential are almost essentially the same thing. How do you project something unless you've already seen a little of what a player can already do? Gilbert Arenas actually went in depth about this very issue. He scored a huge contract and didn't do a thing afterward. There's a list of athletes who have been down this road. I think teams look at both past and projection of future production. But I respect that you disagree.

 

[Ring 6]

I disagree with that. Projection and potential are almost essentially the same thing. How do you project something unless you've already seen a little of what a player can already do? Gilbert Arenas actually went in depth about this very issue. He scored a huge contract and didn't do a thing afterward. There's a list of athletes who have been down this road. I think teams look at both past and projection of future production. But I respect that you disagree.

Dude. You seem to not understand this.

Paying for a players past is taking a guy like say mangold and making him the highest paid C in the NFL.
Paying for a guys future is saying for the next 4 years there is no way in hell mangold will still be the best C in the NFL.

Paying for their past ignores age, decline, system.

Paying for their future means you take those things into consideration and pay them based on the value they will give you going forward and notcthr value they had before, elsewhere, in their prime.