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10 things I think most of us can agree on at the bye


ctpatsfan77

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A few thoughts (only about 400 words) heading into the bye.

1. Losing Christian Gonzalez, Marcus Jones, and Matt Judon to injuries absolutely sucks. Having them probably wouldn't make this a winning team, but at least it'd make them more enjoyable to watch.

2. Pop Douglas is electric, and they need to find more ways to get the ball in his hands.

3. The team needs to move on from Mac Jones this offseason. We can (and almost certainly will) continue to debate how much of it is Jones' fault and how much is Belichick's/the team's fault. But that doesn't change the fact that he's just not going to succeed here. His contract is cheap enough ($2.5M salary next year, for which NE is currently on the hook) that there's a chance to get a draft pick for him.

4. The odds are remote that next year's starting QB is currently on the roster. We'll almost certainly be debating who that person should be for the next 6 months.

5. This team doesn't have enough talent on offense. This is essentially entirely Belichick's fault, since he has final say over the roster.

6. The constant drain on coaching talent has now reached critical mass. It's amazing how many coaches this team has lost, especially on the offensive side, since 2018: Ernie Adams, Dante Scarnecchia, and Ivan Fears are all major losses, and Josh McDaniels took multiple assistants with him when he left. [Admittedly, the loss of Patricia is addition by subtraction, but his incompetence is a factor in the current mess.]

7. One way or another, Belichick's time as HC of the NEP is nearly over. I don't think the Krafts want to fire him, for two reasons: (1) they don't want to pay him big bucks to not coach, and (2) they want to give him the same type of sendoff they're going to give Brady next year.

8. Change is scary. The grass isn't always greener on the other side. We all want to get back to watching the Patriots win playoff games ASAP, but there's no guarantee that if the Patriots replace Belichick, the next guy will do that, either.

9. Change is also necessary. The critical question is how much. Belichick built a flawed roster and botched Jones' development. Do the Krafts trust him to correct those issues enough to give him a second chance, or do they move on to someone new (whether Mayo or someone else)?

10. No matter what, the JEST still suck.
 
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Nikolai

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Interesting that the debate is now about how much blame goes to BB and/or Mac for this abysmal offensive showing. I couldn't quantify it, but the ratios are probably similar to the credit due BB or Brady for the success.
 

ctpatsfan77

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Interesting that the debate is now about how much blame goes to BB and/or Mac for this abysmal offensive showing. I couldn't quantify it, but the ratios are probably similar to the credit due BB or Brady for the success.
Belichick at least managed to get top tier talent for Brady, even if part of it was luck: first Welker and Moss, then GRONK and the other guy, then Edelman and White. (No, Edelman/White are not top-5 overall, but they were top-5 or better in their specific roles.)
 

PATS16N0

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I’ve been critical of a lot of Belichick moves going back almost ten years, and I can see making an argument for a cultural and identity change since Brady is no longer here to lead the Belichick one, but I’m not 100% sold on getting rid of him just because Mac Jones is hot garbage and obviously always has been.

Belichick can’t control injuries and he’s not the one throwing **** tier passes off his back foot every possession.

Show me what football genius we’re going to replace him with and I’d be more open to it, but tossing Bill just to satisfy a blood lust for the season with no idea what to do next doesn’t sound like the smart play.
 

Ring 6

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I’ve been critical of a lot of Belichick moves going back almost ten years, and I can see making an argument for a cultural and identity change since Brady is no longer here to lead the Belichick one, but I’m not 100% sold on getting rid of him just because Mac Jones is hot garbage and obviously always has been.

Belichick can’t control injuries and he’s not the one throwing **** tier passes off his back foot every possession.

Show me what football genius we’re going to replace him with and I’d be more open to it, but tossing Bill just to satisfy a blood lust for the season with no idea what to do next doesn’t sound like the smart play.
If you watch the film, and let’s just say today, Washington and LV. And you had an average QB in there, just making the right decision and making the easy throws, those games are all wins. Let’s not even include the games his pick 6s and other ints put us in a hole and lee to beatings. Maybe this team isn’t a playoff team with an average QB but it’s a .500 team. I don’t think that’s disputable if you review the film. And that is also not taking account for the severe number of injuries.
 

lancerman

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I’ve been critical of a lot of Belichick moves going back almost ten years, and I can see making an argument for a cultural and identity change since Brady is no longer here to lead the Belichick one, but I’m not 100% sold on getting rid of him just because Mac Jones is hot garbage and obviously always has been.

Belichick can’t control injuries and he’s not the one throwing **** tier passes off his back foot every possession.

Show me what football genius we’re going to replace him with and I’d be more open to it, but tossing Bill just to satisfy a blood lust for the season with no idea what to do next doesn’t sound like the smart play.
He's had 4 seasons post Brady.

Take Mac out of the picture.

His defense is ranked in the bottom third of the league, his special teams is ranked near the bottom of the league, his offensive line is ranked near the bottom of the league, his WR corp is near the bottom of the league, his running back corp is ranked in the bottom third of the league. His team routinely makes gaffes, they don't play disciplined football, they get stupid penalties that kill momentum.

He's also been horrible at his GM duties and building a team. He's made questionable decisions on his coaching staff. And he's 71 going on 72. The idea that he's going to turn the trend of the last 4 years around at his age is just a pipe dream at this point.

This goes beyond one player hurting the team. Right now Bill Belichick is not a top coach in this league. If we are being honest, he hasn't been for awhile. And at his age, as we gear up for a new era and rebuild.... he's really not the guy that should be trusted with running it.

At this point, Bill Belichick is an exercise on living in the past and resting on past success. Even he is saying that **** in his press conferences. The players lack buy in, the culture is gone, the personnel group is in shambles, the coaching staff isn't anything to ride home about, this isn't even an untalented team playing as good as they can. It's a horribly untalented team that still finds ways to play below what little potential they had.

That's all on the coach.
 

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On the other hand….
 

mgteich

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Bill's refusal to hire from outside of his circle has resulted in some really bad coaching becoming the norm.
OK, how terrible have the defensive coaches been? answer: they haven't been terrible

Let's look to the offense. Over the years, Scar, Fears and Josh were terrible? Of course not.

Oh, you mean LAST YEAR. I agree.
==========
We will have a coaching problem next year. Who will stay on Defense? Those loyal to Belichick? Those who want a fresh start?
 

PATSYLICIOUS

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Im not totally against Bill returning as HC, but if achord keeps his job I will lose it. 3 years in a row now our st is totally unreliable and ineffective other than marcus jones and brandon schooler making a few plays. How many seasons before could you say the st has had more disasrous plays than making big ones?
 
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chasa

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OK, how terrible have the defensive coaches been? answer: they haven't been terrible

Let's look to the offense. Over the years, Scar, Fears and Josh were terrible? Of course not.

Oh, you mean LAST YEAR. I agree.
==========
We will have a coaching problem next year. Who will stay on Defense? Those loyal to Belichick? Those who want a fresh start?

achord is terrible, like legit shouldn't by the head of a department, but is continuing to **** all over what was once a strong part of this team on special teams
Judge is not good at anything he's done outside of special teams, yet isn't coaching special teams
patricia was horrible. Rumors are it was his call to bench butler in the superbowl, his bend but don't break defense was garbage and only worked because brady bailed the defense. He's run as o-coordinator is going to go down in history as the biggest mistake in coaching histroy, his coaching of the oline probably set the unit back a decade.
Klemm is a former patriot, the o line has been attrocious for large parts of the season.
troy brown is the WR coach and our WR are constantly ****ing up
Bill o brien is back and his offense is putting up WORSE numbers then ****ing patricia.

There are NO new ideas coming into the team. The whole thing is outdated.
 

jdlboot14

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It used to be all about honor, loyalty and legacy to see BB break the all-time wins record.
But, reality struck. It now appears BB will die before he gets that many wins at the 2-3 per season rate we're at now.
And, one thing that isn't new - BB is too stubborn to change anything about the way he runs a team.
So, what means more to Kraft - the past glory of dynasty. Or not losing a $7B business?
 

TheRazorsEdge

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It used to be all about honor, loyalty and legacy to see BB break the all-time wins record.
But, reality struck. It now appears BB will die before he gets that many wins at the 2-3 per season rate we're at now.
And, one thing that isn't new - BB is too stubborn to change anything about the way he runs a team.
So, what means more to Kraft - the past glory of dynasty. Or not losing a $7B business?
It'll be a long time before Kraft feels anything financially from the play of the team.

However the public opinion of the Patriots, the local, national , international fan appeal of the Patriots might matter to them just enough where they force something.

However don't kid yourself, spending low on the roster and bad seasons are not financially harming them at all. Thats not the catalyst at this moment.
 

PATS16N0

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Yeah there was nothing special about Tom at all. You got me.
 

lancerman

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Mac Jones, Bailey Zappe, and Cam Newton corpse don't exactly disprove that.
Tom Brady leaving this team and winning a Super Bowl instantly somewhere else and making Arians look way better than he is proves that. Josh McDaniels who was the OC most of that time not being able to develop a QB on multiple teams proves that. BOB who was an OC in Brady's prime not being able to develop a QB on the Texans proves that.

We don't need to look that far to find out how insanely wrong and arrogant that statement is.
 


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