Kraft Needs to Back Mayo With His Wallet

[Ivan]

Ivan, I agree.

for a better understanding about why they didn't resign so many talented players, you'd better ask @One-If-By-Sea I'm sure he can explain the ins and outs of financial rewards vis-a-vis roster building and the effects it has on team morale when a franchise rarely signs players who have earned it thru hard work to a second contract.

Thanks Pape, I’ll try to look into that if I get the chance. My hope is that dynamic will change with Mayo. They will still need to do a good job in managing the cap, t that doesn’t mean they have to be assholes when player’s contracts come up. I think the early signs for us when it comes to Mayo’s reign will be his ability to retain their free agents they want to keep, and convince this they want to bring in to sign here. And the second will be how he puts together his coaching staff. Then comes the draft, it will be really interesting to see how it all works out.

 

[Pape]

I think the early signs for us when it comes to Mayo’s reign will be his ability to retain their free agents they want to keep, and convince this they want to bring in to sign here. And the second will be how he puts together his coaching staff. Then comes the draft, it will be really interesting to see how it all works out.

i think that is it in a nutshell. you just nailed it.

 

[*ChungFu*]

Thanks Pape, I’ll try to look into that if I get the chance. My hope is that dynamic will change with Mayo. They will still need to do a good job in managing the cap, t that doesn’t mean they have to be assholes when player’s contracts come up. I think the early signs for us when it comes to Mayo’s reign will be his ability to retain their free agents they want to keep, and convince this they want to bring in to sign here. And the second will be how he puts together his coaching staff. Then comes the draft, it will be really interesting to see how it all works out.

Have you ever seen players that seem to be unaffected by losing? Smiling on the sidelines or chatting it up with the other team while getting smoked? Those are the kind of players I think of when I hear "player's coach." Right or wrong, that's what I think. I also don't think Mayo is going to be one nor do I think anyone would necessarily come here to play for Mayo on an equal offer.

 

[Rob0729]

Kraft has been cheap in the past, not sure he will change his philosophy.

People forget he gave Drew Bledsoe a record smashing contract at the time in 2001. Yes, Belichick was here already at that point, but I tend to doubt Belichick would have made Bledsoe the highest paid player in the league. It isn't like he has been afraid to open the wallet before. He has paid other players top of the market contracts.

We will find out who the cheap one is - Kraft or Belichick. Both will have teams with a lot of cap space (assuming Belichick ends up in Atlanta).

 

[Ivan]

Have you ever seen players that seem to be unaffected by losing? Smiling on the sidelines or chatting it up with the other team while getting smoked? Those are the kind of players I think of when I hear "player's coach." Right or wrong, that's what I think. I also don't think Mayo is going to be one nor do I think anyone would necessarily come here to play for Mayo on an equal offer.

Have you ever played a sport? Because I have played on numerous teams, and everyone on them didn’t suddenly turn grim because we were behind, so suggesting that players having a laugh when the team is behind in no way means they don’t care about winning. Being behind doesn’t mean you are going to lose, it just means you have to outplay your opponent enough to ultimately win. There are players who care deeply, players who don’t show affect one way or the other, and even some that don’t care, but trying to read their minds and discern what they are thinking during a contest is largely ********.

I have no idea what kind of coach Mayo is going to be, but he’s clearly more affable than Belichick is, and many players would rather play for a coach they feel they can get along with than one they think is a prick to be around. And even someone as fueled by winning as Brady was eventually burned out on Belichick treating him like a rookie in his 20th season of giving everything he had to the team and organization.

 

[*ChungFu*]

Have you ever played a sport? Because I have played on numerous teams, and everyone on them didn’t suddenly turn grim because we were behind, so suggesting that players having a laugh when the team is behind in no way means they don’t care about winning. Being behind doesn’t mean you are going to lose, it just means you have to outplay your opponent enough to ultimately win. There are players who care deeply, players who don’t show affect one way or the other, and even some that don’t care, but trying to read their minds and discern what they are thinking during a contest is largely ********.

I have no idea what kind of coach Mayo is going to be, but he’s clearly more affable than Belichick is, and many players would rather play for a coach they feel they can get along with than one they think is a prick to be around. And even someone as fueled by winning as Brady was eventually burned out on Belichick treating him like a rookie in his 20th season of giving everything he had to the team and organization.

I've played on plenty of teams, but I'm wound a bit too tight to be offering anything but distain to the opposition. The rest of your view makes sense though.

 

[Ivan]

I've played on plenty of teams, but I'm wound a bit to tight too be offering anything but distain to the opposition. The rest of your view makes sense though.

I can understand that. I’m really competitive, and was hot tempered as an athlete, sometimes too hot tempered, and made an ******* of myself. But I also remember many times when we were laughing and having a good time playing even when we were behind. That doesn’t mean we were ok with losing, and I know I sure as hell wasn’t, but we still had fun playing. And afterwards, as adults, we would have a few beers and burn some, commiserate about the loss, or enjoy the win, but ultimately get over it either way. So, while I get your point, as if I were a Bills fan and saw Josh Allen laughing on the sideline after that kick went wide I probably wouldn’t like it, and would think he didn’t really care, but it would take that kind of situation to get me to think that. Unless I knew the player was a douchebag who really didn’t care, e.g…. Antonio Brown ripping his shirt off while leaving the field during the game, because he didn’t catch enough passes.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

It's going to be important to spend, but can also be detrimental. Most teams generally keep their best players. Lots of people focus on the guys BB let go over the years, but think of the guys he kept. He didn't let Brady go until very late in his career. Richard Seymour was paid top of the market. Wilfork was paid top of the market. Logan Mankins and Shaq Mason were paid top of the market. Devin McCourty was paid top of the market. Gronk was paid top of the market. Hightower was paid top of the market. Guys that were actually the truly elite at their positions get paid by their current teams for the most part. Generally in free agency, you're getting past their prime guys or second and third tier guys.

Our 2021 spending spree is an example of this... we signed a lot of guys but none of them were true needle movers. Judon closest to an elite player but realistically he's more of a pro bowl type guy than all pro. We got a lot of short-term improvement on the field and coupled with a weaker schedule we had a good season, but it wasn't sustainable.

If this team goes buckwild in free agency and ends up with a good coaching staff, they could have a spike in wins like we did in 2021. But to me, the path to sustainable success will be to really target good, younger players in free agency to build the overall depth and talent up. Hopefully you strike gold on 1 or 2 of them. But really need to focus on adding blue chip players with our high picks and hopefully developing some internally.

 

[Hyped]

Comments:

1.) The only # that matters is "Spending=To-The-Cap".

2.) FAs will go where the money is MOST OF THE TIME. Sure, some might be chasing Lombardis, but nobody takes a discount to do so. Hell, we had trouble bringing in some UFA's in the Brady era....like Derrick Mason whose wife didn't want to live in Massachusetts (shrugs).

3.) Mayo said that Kraft would be opening his wallet. Bob said he never held back from spending. I am good.

 

[ahmed]

I never believed this whole Kraft is cheap narrative. To me it always seemed like Bill's philosophy and it's consistent across all the tiers and not just the biggest free agents.

We will see if this changes or not. IMO it has to unless you again hit on a HF QB lol.

 

[ahmed]

One tiny moan: Jakobi wasn’t a lack of money; they gave the same amount to Juju. Otherwise, I mostly agree with this take, especially on coaches and key players who have been developed (Onwenu).

They did not offer Jacobi that deal - I.e. they deemed his value to be less. So yes it was about money.

 

[ahmed]

People overstate this stuff a bit. Every year bad teams get a haul in free agency when they spend. Football is a business and many football player would rather make more on an 1-16 team than take significantly less on a Super Bowl contender.

And by all accounts, Tee Higgins isn’t giving any home town discount to remain in Cincy and wants to be paid among the top WRs in the league. I am guessing if the Pats are willing to offer that, Higgins would come to NE.

I am betting most players are more likely to follow the money than take less to play for a contender. The Pats did get a lot of players who chose here largely to play with Brady and/or Belichick and win a Super Bowl. But looking back how many of those guys were the biggest in demand free agents?

Yup - he would be stupid to offer a discount after being grossly underpaid due to rookie contract.

Only people who have luxury of discounts are QBs or veteran free agents who have had 1 or 2 free agents deals already.

 

[ahmed]

As I have said both here and on Reddit, if you want to say Kraft and/or the Patriots are reluctant/unwilling to write huge checks to individual players, that's a perfectly valid criticism.

But it's not reasonable to say that they're "cheap" and trying to pocket salary cap cash. At no point have they elected to use the one means they have for keeping salary cap cash (not rolling over leftover cap space). [It should also go without saying that the teams that have the highest cash spending over the last couple of years also have the least free cap space over the next couple of years; it feels sometimes like some folks want the Patriots to both spend the most and have the most cap space in future years. . . .]

There is a real argument to be made about some owners spending more than others. Owners who borrow money from future cap years consistently definitely spend more than owners who dont or dont to the same extent. That remains the same as long as the NFL is around and so you can borrow from future cap.

E.g. an owner who borrows $20MM every year from future cap spends $20MM every more than an owner who spends the 100% cap but does not borrow from future cap years. Inverse is true. Owner who is always under the cap (even though they roll it over) for e.g. $20MM a year means they spend even less. So between the over and under the difference could be $40MM annually perpetually or till NFL is closed.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

There is a real argument to be made about some owners spending more than others. Owners who borrow money from future cap years consistently definitely spend more than owners who dont or dont to the same extent. That remains the same as long as the NFL is around and so you can borrow from future cap.

E.g. an owner who borrows $20MM every year from future cap spends $20MM every more than an owner who spends the 100% cap but does not borrow from future cap years. Inverse is true. Owner who is always under the cap (even though they roll it over) for e.g. $20MM a year means they spend even less. So between the over and under the difference could be $40MM annually perpetually or till NFL is closed.

That's not true at all. If a team rolls over $20M in 2023 to 2024, their total cap space is $20M higher. If they have $20M left over in 2024, that's the same $20M they rolled over.

The reverse is true if you borrow $20M every year; it's essentially the same $20M every year.

 

[ahmed]

That's not true at all. If a team rolls over $20M in 2023 to 2024, their total cap space is $20M higher. If they have $20M left over in 2024, that's the same $20M they rolled over.

The reverse is true if you borrow $20M every year; it's essentially the same $20M every year.

Cap keeps increasing though so you can keep borrowing more every year.

 

[TomPatriot]

They did not offer Jacobi that deal - I.e. they deemed his value to be less. So yes it was about money.

I though it was the same amount.

Patriots’ Jakobi Meyers/JuJu Smith-Schuster swap looking worse by the week

New England attempted to upgrade its wide receiver position this offseason, but so far the move has not worked out.

www.patspulpit.com

 

[ahmed]

I though it was the same amount.

Patriots’ Jakobi Meyers/JuJu Smith-Schuster swap looking worse by the week

New England attempted to upgrade its wide receiver position this offseason, but so far the move has not worked out.

www.patspulpit.com

No - Meyers tweet after JuJu's contract definitely made it seem very different

 

[TommyD4207]

They were first in cash spending in 2021.

3rd. Still 27th over the 20-22 3-year period.

 

[mgteich]

They were first in cash spending in 2021.

This is a patsfans violation. You are not allowed to support arguments with facts. This is a no facts zone.

 

[TommyD4207]

This is a patsfans violation. You are not allowed to support arguments with facts. This is a no facts zone.

Well it's not a fact. They were 3rd. Cleveland was first.