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10 things I think most of us can agree on at the bye


TheRainMaker

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I get your point and your analysis is still incomplete. Need to factor in everything else not just the QB.
You're moving the goalposts. Are they better than those players or not? You know the answer to this.
 

RobertWeathers

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You're moving the goalposts.
No its the very first thing I said several posts back.
Are they better than those players or not? You know the answer to this.
I'll reiterate....your argument is you can drop any HoF-caliber WR on any crappy team with a crappy QB, O-line, coach, etc and they will still put up HoF numbers.

I say they won't/haven't and except for a few corner cases you've identified, it's accurate.

We can stop now if you want.
 

ctpatsfan77

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Belichick kept him and believed in him; he was Welker's heir apparent
Believed in him enough to give him a one-year deal at basically vet minimum. They signed Amendola to be Welker's heir apparent.
 

The Gr8est

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Believed in him enough to give him a one-year deal at basically vet minimum. They signed Amendola to be Welker's heir apparent.
Sadly that is true.

They risked losing one of the best Pat receivers of all time.
 

venecol

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BB drafted Brady, and kept four QBs that year rather than expose him to cuts.

How many other teams would have lost Brady thinking no other team will grab a 6th round cut?
Read an interview with Pioli where he said they had Brady ranked higher than any of their picks from Rds 3-6, but chose the others out of need. They were never going to cut Brady because to them, he was a 3rd rounder. It wasn't some sacrifice as so many claim. Brady was a bargain.

Whoever replaces him will never miss on a draft pick, I am certain.
Whatever they do, they need to have a GM and a separate HC. They are two separate roles.
 

Actual Pats Fan

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Edelman was supposed to be that guy. Remember when Bill featured him earlier over Welker in the 2012 season? But then Bill signed Amendola with the intention for him to be the guy. Edelman turned out to be the guy after all.
They were together
 

Wozzy

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Sadly that is true.

They risked losing one of the best Pat receivers of all time.
Ehhhh...

He was a 7th round rookie who was a former QB from Kent State who never played WR before. He also got hurt repeatedly in his first few years so he was hardly durable. Troy Brown was an 8th round pick who was cut and placed on a practice squad also.

Other teams don't want your late round or UDFA developmental players or backup QB's like Zappe, especially if they're not freak athletes.

It doesn't make them bad players, it just means other teams have their own developmental players and only have 53 roster spots.
 

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Believed in him enough to give him a one-year deal at basically vet minimum. They signed Amendola to be Welker's heir apparent.
Yeah Jules was getting hurt a lot.

Danny did too but they both worked their asses off to get back out on the field.

It's hard for me to think we would have won those three last titles without them.
 

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Jack wasn't gonna take that chance - he loved her

I would've looked for another plank

*Edit: TBH I would've jumped into the boat when Rose was in it & they were lowering it away. Risk being called selfish & cowardly, but I'm in that damn boat & we're making it - and Hockley can go to Hell. There are lots of obstacles and challenges in a relationship - for me it's 'we' not 'her'

At this time in that culture, I'd be considered a cad and accused of jeopardizing the lives of the others on the boat. But I'd be breathing.
BTW Mrs. APF's name is Rose
 

TommyD4207

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If you watch the film, and let’s just say today, Washington and LV. And you had an average QB in there, just making the right decision and making the easy throws, those games are all wins. Let’s not even include the games his pick 6s and other ints put us in a hole and lee to beatings. Maybe this team isn’t a playoff team with an average QB but it’s a .500 team. I don’t think that’s disputable if you review the film. And that is also not taking account for the severe number of injuries.
Put a name on it.
If Baker Mayfield, who's making ~$2million on a one year contract, was in there, they beat Washington, Las Vegas and Indianapolis at the very least, and are 5-5 instead of 2-8. That's 2nd in the division with the tiebreak.

Your point is true though, this still may not be a playoff team thanks to the devastating injuries on defense, but it wouldn't be a laughing stock.
 

TheRainMaker

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No its the very first thing I said several posts back.

I'll reiterate....your argument is you can drop any HoF-caliber WR on any crappy team with a crappy QB, O-line, coach, etc and they will still put up HoF numbers.

I say they won't/haven't and except for a few corner cases you've identified, it's accurate.

We can stop now if you want.
Sure. No need to derail the thread over this.
 

n6249c

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Yep. We simply do not presently have a worthwhile starter on the team. (I genuinely think Mac has been incompetently supported and coached, surrounded by a lousy roster: I hope he can make a comeback, somewhere.) Mac may have value as a prospective backup, as long or short term competition for some newbie, as a temporary starter for some promising prospect we draft for a want to develop., etc. It costs us little to keep him around, even through next year, if that turns out to be the wise course of action as matters develop. We just don't know what is best to do at present, and we can afford to wait on Mac's fate until we do. The likely real-world alternative to Mac, certainly if we draft a qb prospect would be a veteran, who would be in a better position to mentor any newbies on the scene.
Disagree.
it is not a wise course of action to keep Corky around.
it costs too much. it costs a roster slot. worse, it costs accountability.
It keeps an incompetent loser around, providing a toxic example of poor performance being tolerated in the locker room.
we cannot afford to wait to get rid of such egregious repeat offenses.
 

Thelonious

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Disagree.
it is not a wise course of action to keep Corky around.
it costs too much. it costs a roster slot. worse, it costs accountability.
It keeps an incompetent loser around, providing a toxic example of poor performance being tolerated in the locker room.
we cannot afford to wait to get rid of such egregious repeat offenses.
1) OK: let's see why.
2. Again, let's see if we see why it is not a a"wise course of action."
3. The notion that Mac, with all his faults, which I acknowledge, given particularly that he is as of now, according to the evaluation of any expert I have heard, the best qb presently on the roster, there is little (I would say NO) prospect that the last man on the roster would be less valuable than Mac would, so there is no loss in the overall quality of the roster by keeping him. If the past is the best evidence for the future, and it is, then that "last man" would almost certainly be some long shot unlikely ever to see a single meaningful snap the whole year long. Should that change, we could have a different discussion, but as of now, this is obviously the case. As for money, until there is a draftee (when, again we could have a different conversation,) Mac's cost would not at all be out of line with the most likely alternative, an experienced vet. I see no merit in your cost argument. An argument could be made that the vet would be better for any new qb prospect. That would be a reasonable argument, but that is not the argument you offer.
4. "It costs accountability." Thus is a purely theoretical speculation. You'd have to explain why the example of a player who performed badly, who was benched and is now facing, at maybe 50/50 odds, likely removal from the team, and who has been subject to public humiliation would exemplify lack of accountability. It does not. Along these lines, FAR more damage was done by FAILING to reward Jakobi Meyers for all to see, demonstrating that skill, commitment, hard work and improvement are of no interest to this team, or at least not to its failed GM/FC. Now THAT did real damage.
5)The idea that Mac's mere presence is going to poison somebody emotionally or something is ridiculous, an insult to the men involved. Do you really think they are so weak that they'll go into some sort of emotional swandive because some guy had a bad year? Ridiculous. They ain't that weak.

I expect Mac will likely be gone at some point before the end of next year, say. We are at this time under absolutely zero compulsion to make a change re Mac. There is simply no reason to act at this time. I don't understand your breathless urgency on the matter. Do you just hate the guy? If so why: does anyone who fails at a task in life deserve such derision? Let he who is without failure cast the first stone.
 

Stu Pidassle

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5)The idea that Mac's mere presence is going to poison somebody emotionally or something is ridiculous, an insult to the men involved. Do you really think they are so weak that they'll go into some sort of emotional swandive because some guy had a bad year? Ridiculous. They ain't that weak.
You make a lot of good points, I am calling out number 5 because I haven't seen much consideration of the impact if Mac remains on the roster. I agree that it is not poison, no one questions his commitment or effort. He tries hard to win, the on field results are what they are. The QB position is officially in flux, new players are needed. As long as Mac continues to give the effort he could be on the team next year without being a problem.
 

lancerman

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Belichick kept him and believed in him; he was Welker's heir apparent
Amendola was supposed to be that. Edelman just developed into it after like 4-5 years being a decent hand on the roster
 

Thelonious

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You make a lot of good points, I am calling out number 5 because I haven't seen much consideration of the impact if Mac remains on the roster. I agree that it is not poison, no one questions his commitment or effort. He tries hard to win, the on field results are what they are. The QB position is officially in flux, new players are needed. As long as Mac continues to give the effort he could be on the team next year without being a problem.
Yep. We have three or four qb's (five? I lost count.), none of whom is really worthy of starting, so it ain't gonna be pretty no matter what you do. I think we should think about Mac the same way we should think about everything going forward: how will it affect the development of an essentially new team next year and beyond? It what way can he be useful, if he can be? Might he serve some purpose, likely on an interim basis? Just be empirical and dispassionate about. I think all the Mac Lover/Mac hater stuff is just a silly distraction. If he's useful, use him; and don't bring any more urgency to that decision than is necessary at any particular point in time. As of right now, it costs us nothing to wait and see. If some feel a need to wring their hands and clutch their pearls as they wait, oh well. lol
 
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1960Pats

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Can someone please explain to me exactly what his sons have done wrong other than be his sons?
I don't think he said that his kids did anything wrong. How would he know anyway? For all anyone knows his kids are the second coming of elite HCs, bumbling fools or anything in between. Has either of them had a presser? I don't watch them anymore.
 

1960Pats

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How many rings do Larry Fitzgerald, Calvin Johnson, Julio Jones, DeAndre Hopkins, and Andre Johnson have? Call me crazy but it's almost as if football is a team sport.
Well, it's certainly not a coaches sport, otherwise Bill wouldn't have 8 losing seasons in 10 years without good players.
 


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