Linebackers - Backups and STers

[mgteich]

FOUR plus NINKOVICH
Obviously we have Mayo, Hightower, Spikes and Collins as locks. Ninkovich is both a linebacker in sub packages and a substitute if one of the linebackers is injured. Collins can be our coverage linebacker. Some think that A. Wilson can also help in this role.

Traditionally, the rest of the linebacker positions have been special team positions. HOW MANY additional linebackers should we carry?

FLETCHER seems to be a lock as the #5 LB and as a STer.

How many of our top special teamers from last year will we have on the team?
Koutouvides
Rivera
Tarpinian
I would also mention that Tracey White was also here last year.

Some (most) of us would cut ALL these top special teamers and expect Beauharnais to pick up the slack.
=======
On the DB/STer side, we are in better shape. We will likely keep 2 of T Wilson, Ebner and Cole. We have Ryan (and perhaps Harmon) to pick up the slack for the player lost.

 

[supafly]

I think you have it pegged pretty well in my opinion.

The addition of Collins and Fletcher (and even Adrian Wilson) should enable us to really only need one ST only LB, and that should be a fight between Tarp, Beauharnais, Kout, and maybe Rivera; but I'm personally only expecting ONE myself. I think we're covered sufficiently enough with Fletcher, Collins, and A.Wilson.

Harmon, Tavon Wilson, and Ryan should help to provide actual live reps and ST play.

Ebner/Cole could potentially be vying for the last ST only spot, and an argument may even be made that the choice may make the 6th ST only LB moot--especially if you consider the fact that Adrian Wilson could play there.

 

[AzPatsFan]

BB is already preparig to discard virtually all the ST-only players. It is simply because the regular potential contributors can also play ST. But our ST player list has expanded. In addition to Ghost, Zoltan and the the snapper, we now have the league's best returner specialists to add in Washington, KR, and Edelman, PR, to go with the league's best gunner in Slater.

I think their is only one ST player position left. It is between Marquis Cole, gunner, and Ebner, prolific tackler and wedge buster. Take your pick, but I favor Ebner, as Logan Ryan is a good gunner, also.

Beauharnais matriculates on the PS.

 

[ATippett56]

53 Man Roster:

ILB(3) Spikes, Fletcher, Beauharnais
OLB(3) Mayo, Hightower, Collins

Created with Pats Picker: Pats Picker 2013

Practice Squad:

Tarpinian

Speed Dial:

Koutouvides
Rivera

 

[mgteich]

This is the popular view. I just don't think Collins, Fletcher and Beauharnais can replace the ST reps of White, Koutouvides, and Rivera (and Carpenter and Tarpinian).

53 Man Roster:

ILB(3) Spikes, Fletcher, Beauharnais
OLB(3) Mayo, Hightower, Collins

Created with Pats Picker: Pats Picker 2013

Practice Squad:

Tarpinian

Speed Dial:

Koutouvides
Rivera

 

[mgteich]

I've heard that this has been Belichick's strategy since 2001. What evidence do you have that he is going to change how he views the Special Teams?

BB is already preparig to discard virtually all the ST-only players.

 

[mgteich]

We differ only in that I want 3 players and you think that we can do with two.

I would prefer one LB, but that is because I like the play of Rivera. And we do need a reserve in case of injury. We are replacing White (we forget), Koutouvides, Rivera, Tarpinian/Carpenter (both part year). This is the equivalent of four top STers. Even if both Collins and Fletcher are in this class (I'm not sure of Collins), we still need two. At least that is my take. However, one of these positions could filled by a defensive back.

So, IMHO, best case for the Special Teams is for Cole to win the 5th CB spot and for the STers to be Ebner and Rivera.

I understand that some would give this roster spot to STer Tebow. I's rather have Ebner.

I think you have it pegged pretty well in my opinion.

The addition of Collins and Fletcher (and even Adrian Wilson) should enable us to really only need one ST only LB, and that should be a fight between Tarp, Beauharnais, Kout, and maybe Rivera; but I'm personally only expecting ONE myself. I think we're covered sufficiently enough with Fletcher, Collins, and A.Wilson.

Harmon, Tavon Wilson, and Ryan should help to provide actual live reps and ST play.

Ebner/Cole could potentially be vying for the last ST only spot, and an argument may even be made that the choice may make the 6th ST only LB moot--especially if you consider the fact that Adrian Wilson could play there.

 

[ATippett56]

We differ only in that I want 3 players and you think that we can do with two.

I would prefer one LB, but that is because I like the play of Rivera. And we do need a reserve in case of injury. We are replacing White (we forget), Koutouvides, Rivera, Tarpinian/Carpenter (both part year). This is the equivalent of four top STers. Even if both Collins and Fletcher are in this class (I'm not sure of Collins), we still need two. At least that is my take. However, one of these positions could filled by a defensive back.

Snap counts: Logan Ryan receives most playing time in Patriots' win over Bucs | masslive.com

A look at the New England Patriots' snap counts from Friday night's win over Tampa Bay:

Special teams

Bolden – 12
Ryan – 9
Harmon – 15
T. Wilson – 16
Beauharnais – 8
Collins – 11
Rivera – 13
Cole – 12
Fletcher – 6
Arrington – 5
A. Wilson – 3
Ninkovich – 1
Tarpinian – 12
Koutouvides – 13
Slater – 10

 

[mgteich]

Over half (58%) of ST reps consisted of players that many of us expect to cut. Of course, in the regular season, the starters will get more ST reps than here.

All these had 12 reps or more. Only one of the "locks" had that many reps (Harmon).

Bolden
T Wilson
Cole
Rivera
Tarpinian
Koutouvides

It would seem that we have to replace these reps. The question for me is how many of these players will be kept by Belichick.

Snap counts: Logan Ryan receives most playing time in Patriots' win over Bucs | masslive.com

 

[jah]

I only have us keeping the 4 locks plus Fletcher.

I remember thinking Tarpinian was going to be a steal in 2011, especially when he started the night we blew out the Jets, but ever since then Belichick hasn't seemed to value him much. He's looked pretty bad so far this preseason on defense, not sure about special teams.

Beauharnais has looked decent but not particularly physically gifted, and he'd be my pick for a sixth LB right now. I still think he's PS material though, and that's why I'm projecting 5 LB to start the season.

Rivera is terrible on defense and somehow was a spot starter last year. I really hope that doesn't happen again and if he makes the team it's only for special teams.

I'm pretty confident saying that Koutouvides will be cut before the season and he'll be one of the first to be signed from the shadow roster during the season.

 

[VrabelJr]

I think Tarpinian is more valuable to this team than many people here think he is. I can see us easily having 8 LBs as that is a spot BB has never gone light on.

 

[jah]

I think Tarpinian is more valuable to this team than many people here think he is. I can see us easily having 8 LBs as that is a spot BB has never gone light on.

BB went light on it last year, keeping 5 a lot of the time.

 

[supafly]

I think Tarpinian is more valuable to this team than many people here think he is. I can see us easily having 8 LBs as that is a spot BB has never gone light on.

You seem to want THREE ST/LB's on top of Collins, Fletcher, Mayo, Hightower, and Spikes? That seems to be a little extreme to me.

I think it's between 6--maybe 7 at the most.

Keeping all of those ST/LB's would indeed cut down on the number of available players on the DL, especially seeing as how most of us have at least 10 DB's. That would mean that we'd be looking at 15 front seven players at the most, and you have 8 of them being LB's?

You may be right, but I'd see it as at least one less myself.

 

[supafly]

BB went light on it last year, keeping 5 a lot of the time.

Which would coincide with the argument that the additions of Collins and Fletcher (plus one more ST only LB) may be enough. That would total 6. It would also show us an improvement at the position as far as ST play is concerned, since both Fletcher and Collins are able to play "real" reps as opposed to last season.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I can't see a single reason why Tarpinian should make the final roster. His only shot, IMO, is if one of Fletcher/Collins gets hurt.

 

[captain stone]

53 Man Roster:

ILB(3) Spikes, Fletcher, Beauharnais
OLB(3) Mayo, Hightower, Collins

Created with Pats Picker: Pats Picker 2013

Practice Squad:

Tarpinian

Speed Dial:

Koutouvides
Rivera

Eggs-actly, Batman.

Tarp and especially Koutouvides & Rivera all suck bad, but at least Tarp has PS eligibility.
I would've kept AJ Edds over all 3 of them because he has at least proven that he can play
NFL defense & cover somebody.
It's about damn time that our backup LBs can actually play LB.

 

[mgteich]

I suspect that Belichick disagrees with your assessment. In any case, Rivera would make it primarily as a STer and #6 LBer.

Rivera is terrible on defense and somehow was a spot starter last year. I really hope that doesn't happen again and if he makes the team it's only for special teams.

 

[VrabelJr]

BB went light on it last year, keeping 5 a lot of the time.

Mayo, Hightower, Spikes, Rivera, Tarpinian, Koutovides and White dressed pretty much every game barring injuries. That's seven.

Mayo, Hightower, Spikes and Collins are locks. Fletcher, Koutovides, White, Tarpinian, Beauharnais and River are fighting for the remaining 3 or 4(maybe) spots. I think the winners of those spots come down to ST contribution, back up and development worth. Koutovides could be a surprising winner.

I'm surprised so many people here undervalue ST contributions.

 

[VrabelJr]

I can't see a single reason why Tarpinian should make the final roster. His only shot, IMO, is if one of Fletcher/Collins gets hurt.

Tarpinian is our only true back up at the WOLB spot at this point.

 

[mgteich]

Carpenter and Tarpinian were essentially equal to one player. Both were there part of the season. But your point is well taken. We usually played 7. Perhaps the confusion is the "final" 53 man roster. Guys like Koutouvides and Rivera could be signed after Game 1, after the dust settles.

Mayo, Hightower, Spikes, Rivera, Tarpinian, Koutovides and White dressed pretty much every game barring injuries. That's seven.

Mayo, Hightower, Spikes and Collins are locks. Fletcher, Koutovides, White, Tarpinian, Beauharnais and River are fighting for the remaining 3 or 4(maybe) spots. I think the winners of those spots come down to ST contribution, back up and development worth. Koutovides could be a surprising winner.