Lazar: Belichick’s in-game decision-making is holding the Pats back

[sb1]

BB orchestrated a winning team of which Brady was a key component, but it would be incorrect and unfair to call BB a failure without him.

I don't think anyone is calling BB a failure without Brady - maybe except for people who thought BB was some kind of wizard that could magically transform literally anyone into a championship QB and team. That was never true. There was never a "system" here. It was great talent all along.

Like any coach in football BB is not as successful without his all universe great QB. That shouldn't be a surprise. He admitted it himself he wouldn't have had as successful a career without Brady.

 

[50-yard-line]

The Meyers catch forward progress that was over the first down marker that was marked short would have been overturned on a challenge.

I don't think so because he wasn't touched by a defender.

 

[venecol]

I, for one, am sick of BB being micro-analyzed on this board by "fans" and pundits who actually believe they "know things" sufficient to disparage the greatest coach this sport ever has seen -- with or without Tom Brady. It's what "fans" do, I suppose, when they're used to being spoiled and the road gets bumpy. BB is nearing the end of an incredible career run and too many here are eager to rush him out the door. Be careful what you wish for, folks. Whoever comes next likely will give cause for some REAL second-guessing.

Thing is it's not just fans and mediots, it's also former Patriots HOF players. I think Bill kept older players (Van Noy, Hi, McC) from the former dynasty for their leadership ability with all the new FAs and younger players to get them to "buy into" his system. These guys have clearly lost a step and are probably on their way out.

There's just too many mistakes being made that are so uncharacteristic of a Patriots team. I'm not sure why this is happening but we have to recognize that the coaching is not preparing these players to avoid these continuous mistakes (too many players on the field, not enough players on the field, blocked punts, gassed players, bad play calls, delay of game, wasted TOs, dumb penalties, 4th down decisions).

We all see what's going on. It can't just simply be ignored. I suppose we can all cross our fingers, pray, and hope things will get better but then why have a football board. We can just start a Bill cheerleader board instead.

 

[archstanton543]

Forward progress only applies when you get hit. You can't catch a ball and fall backwards untouched and get forward progress. Learn the game

Then how come I've seen plays like that called a first countless times in my 30+ years of watching a game? Why is it that other people on this board feel the same way?

 

[Pats2000]

Then how come I've seen plays like that called a first countless times in my 30+ years of watching a game? Why is it that other people on this board feel the same way?

Because they are stupid like you. Feelings don't matter, the rules do.

If a player catches a ball and runs backwards 20 yards on his own and then gets tackled, where is the ball spotted? At the point of catch or the tackle?

 

[sb1]

Thing is it's not just fans and mediots, it's also former Patriots HOF players. I think Bill kept older players (Van Noy, Hi, McC) from the former dynasty for their leadership ability with all the new FAs and younger players to get them to "buy into" his system. These guys have clearly lost a step and are probably on their way out.

There's just too many mistakes being made that are so uncharacteristic of a Patriots team. I'm not sure why this is happening but we have to recognize that the coaching is not preparing these players to avoid these continuous mistakes (too many players on the field, not enough players on the field, blocked punts, gassed players, bad play calls, delay of game, wasted TOs, dumb penalties, 4th down decisions).

We all see what's going on. It can't just simply be ignored. I suppose we can all cross our fingers, pray, and hope things will get better but then why have a football board. We can just start a Bill cheerleader board instead.

Yup. You know there's a problem right now when Julian Edelman of all people is calling out the Pats for all of that stuff.

It's like Bill and the coaches needed that 4th preseason game after all? Lol

 

[amfootball]

I, for one, am sick of BB being micro-analyzed on this board by "fans" and pundits who actually believe they "know things" sufficient to disparage the greatest coach this sport ever has seen -- with or without Tom Brady. It's what "fans" do, I suppose, when they're used to being spoiled and the road gets bumpy. BB is nearing the end of an incredible career run and too many here are eager to rush him out the door. Be careful what you wish for, folks. Whoever comes next likely will give cause for some REAL second-guessing.

Lol. It's a Pats forum. The GM/coach will always be discussed.

 

[Tunescribe]

Lol. It's a Pats forum. The GM/coach will always be discussed.

"Lol"? Thanks so much for stating the obvious while missing the point of my post.

 

[amfootball]

"Lol"? Thanks so much for stating the obvious while missing the point of my post.

What do you want? A cheerleading sub forum?

 

[Tunescribe]

What do you want? A cheerleading sub forum?

I'd prefer a Football 101 sub-forum where ankle-biters like you can get remedial help.

 

[Pats2000]

Thing is it's not just fans and mediots, it's also former Patriots HOF players. I think Bill kept older players (Van Noy, Hi, McC) from the former dynasty for their leadership ability with all the new FAs and younger players to get them to "buy into" his system. These guys have clearly lost a step and are probably on their way out.

There's just too many mistakes being made that are so uncharacteristic of a Patriots team. I'm not sure why this is happening but we have to recognize that the coaching is not preparing these players to avoid these continuous mistakes (too many players on the field, not enough players on the field, blocked punts, gassed players, bad play calls, delay of game, wasted TOs, dumb penalties, 4th down decisions).

We all see what's going on. It can't just simply be ignored. I suppose we can all cross our fingers, pray, and hope things will get better but then why have a football board. We can just start a Bill cheerleader board instead.

I think a lot of it is multiple factors:

1. Brady leadership is gone, Brady was like a coach for the team.
2. Exodus of coaching talent. BB has had to deal with constant exodus of talent being hired away by other teams. In addition to #3, he's got a lot of new coaching talent and some of his best coaches have retired (Ernie Adams, Scar, etc)
3. A ton of new people on the roster, player turnover means getting everyone on the same page and in alignment with the system. It's a lot easier when it's only 4 or 5 players vs. 23
4. Rookie QB, that has to play a role in things, he is trying to ingest what he sees on the field, he's not perfect running the offense, there's bound to be mistakes.
5. N'keal Harry...just watching him forget to run across the formation pre-snap and sitting there in lala land, made me feel like he deserved a point all his own.
6. Mediocre offensive drafting...all teams go through slumps, but BB can't draft a WR to save his life. It's just one of his weaknesses.

 

[amfootball]

I'd prefer a Football 101 sub-forum where ankle-biters like you can get remedial help.

Maybe get some coffee soon?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Belichick isn't getting fired by this team now, end of the year, or ever. He will step down when the time comes.

If this year turns into a train wreck and next year is one as well he will be offered the opportunity to step down with grace and dignity.

 

[Ian]

Because they are stupid like you.

Let's leave comments like this out, please.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Forward progress only applies when you get hit. You can't catch a ball and fall backwards untouched and get forward progress. Learn the game

It depends if you attempt to gain more yardage after falling backwards. If you don’t, then yes, you do get forward progress in that situation.

 

[Tottie]

Maybe get some coffee soon?

He's probably been up since 3am it's lunch time for him. I kid, I kid.

 

[Ian]

BB is nearing the end of an incredible career run and too many here are eager to rush him out the door. Be careful what you wish for, folks. Whoever comes next likely will give cause for some REAL second-guessing.

100% this. Questioning the personnel moves is one thing. But in critical moments during the game, there's no other guy I'd want out there. Again, if someone wants to go there and say things questioning him or criticizing him, I've loosened the reigns there a bit but I'm really asking that it's done constructively while giving examples of what you would have preferred to have seen done differently so we can at least have discussions. But otherwise, we've seen enough examples over the years to realize the guy is the best in the game.

As @Tunescribe said, when this era eventually ends - and it will - I don't think people will realize how much closer to just being part of the pack we're going to be. Players come here to play for him. That's another aspect that will go away and I think it's being a little underplayed.

 

[Steve102]

If this year turns into a train wreck and next year is one as well he will be offered the opportunity to step down with grace and dignity.

This is the time line. He's not going to get fired. Ever. He may be gently asked to retire.

To all those out there that want him gone, which wiser, younger man would be the successor?

 

[Ian]

To all those out there that want him gone, which wiser, younger man would be the successor?

This is a question I really would like people who even suggest it to be able to answer. Because, just like at QB, you can cycle through a lot of guys over a lot of years before finding the right one. People don't quite know how frustrating a lot of years might be here if that happens.

 

[Steve102]

This is a question I really would like people who even suggest it to be able to answer. Because, just like at QB, you can cycle through a lot of guys over a lot of years before finding the right one. People don't quite know how frustrating a lot of years might be here if that happens.

The answer is almost certainly on staff now. Josh, Matty P, one of the Belichick Boys, Mayo seem to be on the short list. Most of the guys who want Bill gone seem to want these guys gone too. So that means you have to go out of the organization. Who's out there that can be on a list that has a relationship with the Krafts? Billy O, Flores, Joe Judge, Vrabel? Who's going to be the GM? Dmitiroff? Billy O? Pioli? Do we go outside the organization and turn to a guy like Schiano? None of it seems better than what we have currently.

Careful what you wish for indeed.