Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?

[Ring 6]

Sure it is. You're the one repeating the reports of trafficking excuse for a warrant. You can say I'm only saying what they said. How is that different than to keep telling everyone that's what your friend told you? When you keep beating that drum it sure looks like your trying to advance that story as fact. You see you can say you have no idea if a guy was banging someone's wife because it hasn't been proven but all the while you keep telling everyone that's what your friend told you. Andy it's kind of obvious where you stand.

I’m only repeating it because people are calling me out as having said there was trafficking. So I am point out that my only discussion about trafficking was that it was reported that was what the case was about.

To your analogy it’s like people are now accusing me of calling his wife a whore and I’m correcting them by saying no I only past along what I was told.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Well that's good. Everyone I run into (anyone who knows me knows I am a huge Pats fan) says, "Hey, what do you think of Bob Kraft?" Not "Hey, you must be psyched the Patriots won the Super Bowl!" (I'm still psyched though )

In these situations* I'm able to use my male privilege. My response is "You just WISH you could blah, blah, blah, at that age 2 days in a row." Guys back off or we trade further personal insults. In these situations, it's great to be a guy.

* Note that daughter & granddaughters are not around.

 

[Soliel]

This isn’t that difficult.
My comments before were that based upon what was available to us the warrant was based upon trafficking. I never said I knew there was trafficking. How could I? We didn’t have facts.
Now we have some facts that might indicate that information was not correct. We also have a statement from the sheriff that he was investigating trafficking.
How could I possibly be “wrong” when I say based upon what has been reported x,y,z happened is it turns out the reporting was inaccurate.
You are making the major mistake of acting as if me discussing what has been reported is me saying I know what actually occurred.

Let me give you an example.
If a friend of mine tells me they saw your wife banging some guy in the backseat of his car in a parking lot last night and I tell you that he told me that, if it turns out it wasn’t your wife that doesn’t mean I was wrong. If instead I told you your wife is a whore then I am wrong.
If you want to have a reasonable grown up discussion you have to understand that.

When people WITHOUT facts are screaming there is no trafficking and I say the facts we know as of know do not back that up I am not wrong if the facts change because I am not guessing at the facts I am only basing my current belief on the current facts.

Ok, I see where your coming from.

 

[PatsDeb]

You are saying that cops can illegally tape or video record an act or conversation, try to use the illegal recording to charge you with a crime, but when illegal recording gets thrown out, the cops can just turn it over to media because of FL disclosure laws?

Damn that would be some fv*ked up **** if FL law allows such a thing.

Although I don't know FL law, I doubt this is the case. Releasing a video that has been ruled inadmissible in a criminal trial because it was obtained in violation of a Defendant's 4th Amendment rights against illegal search and seizure would open the police up to a whole lotta lawsuits for invasion of privacy. I bet it is an exception to whatever rules there are and would give a judge the ability to seal the video.

 

[PatsWSB47]

I’m only repeating it because people are calling me out as having said there was trafficking. So I am point out that my only discussion about trafficking was that it was reported that was what the case was about.

To your analogy it’s like people are now accusing me of calling his wife a whore and I’m correcting them by saying no I only past along what I was told.

If you non stop pass along what you were told then you are advancing the notion, especially when you defend the guy that told you that.

 

[Ring 6]

If you non stop pass along what you were told then you are advancing the notion, especially when you defend the guy that told you that.

But that’s the point. Im not passing it along.
People are accusing me of having said something I did not say.

 

[IcyPatriot]

This thread ...

 

[XLIX]

I looked into this, the only video warrants made public are for Martin County. There was a claim that the same types of warrants were used for other cases. The Jupiter case began as a result of the Martin County investigation and it followed similar procedures.

However, from what I can gather, Jupiter judge has released 3 warrants for access to banks only. There were a total of about 6 warrants: 3 for bank information, 2 for GPS on vehicles, and the camera placement one. The warrant that allowed the placement of cameras in Jupiter is still under seal as of yesterday.

It is possible the warrants are very similar in both Martin County and Jupiter cases but until we see the Jupiter warrants we just don't know. I noticed everyone has taken the WPTV story and ran with it as if it was related to Kraft's case.

Exactly. That's what Florio did and everyone just ran with it. I am standing by what you say about them being separate warrants until I hear otherwise.

 

[Deus Irae]

So we've got trafficking that's not trafficking, apparently with at least one warrant that didn't call for video. And we've got this thread.

 

[Soliel]

If that happened simultaneously with the Hindenburg disaster. Lol

 

[Hyped]

IMO, if I were the DA....I'd drop all charges right now.

Previously they offered to drop charges in exchange for an "admission" of "likely guilt should this go to trail".

Right now with all the stories of misconduct coming out about the Marion County Sheriff's office as well as the Sheriff saying, "Oh, my bad...it wasn't EXACTLY Human Trafficking"....

This case is dead even if there's a video...which may or may not even be legally obtained.

The DA is past time of saving face...best to drop this case and move on, IMO.

 

[Ring 6]

IMO, if I were the DA....I'd drop all charges right now.

Previously they offered to drop charges in exchange for an "admission" of "likely guilt should this go to trail".

Right now with all the stories of misconduct coming out about the Marion County Sheriff's office as well as the Sheriff saying, "Oh, my bad...it wasn't EXACTLY Human Trafficking"....

This case is dead even if there's a video...which may or may not even be legally obtained.

The DA is past time of saving face...best to drop this case and move on, IMO.

Can you explain what stories of misconduct you are referring to?
Do you believe that proving human trafficking is required to find kraft guilty of solicitation?
How is the case dead even with a video showing the commission if the crime? What counteracts that?

 

[BTTA]

The degree to which we know human trafficking exists in the US, and its associations with prostitution, pretty much makes it a sure thing that trafficking is happening in that part of Florida. Anyone who thinks otherwise is living in a fairly tale.

The fact that the Sheriff was unable to come up with adequate evidence to make an arrest in this case is just a shame. Perhaps it isn't happening in that particular massage parlor, although apparently the circumstantial evidence is pretty strong that it was. All that means is that they took a swing and missed. Anyone with any human decency wants them to swing and hit the ball. So it is a sad day for society that they didn't find enough evidence to get the criminals in this particular location. Now they need to look elsewhere, and that will mean that more people will be hurt during that time.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

What's a bigger problem with society: some "dirty old men" in a consensual exchange of money for a non-intercourse sexual acts (NOT with sex slaves, with consenting prostitutes), OR a highly over aggressive police department (and possibly judge) who ****s all over privacy rights and who apparently acts on very thin leads that weren't vetted well? Let me remind you that many people went to this spa for legit purposes but were monitored/videotaped removing their clothes (despite the PD saying they weren't watching, they still had a live feed camera which SOMEONE was watching or SOME PEOPLE were watching.) It's disgusting...all for a total bust "sting operation" that came up with nothing.

Speaking of spin and criticism of Kraft's attorneys, the PD is much worse. They are saying that even if it wasn't trafficking this was an international racketeering operation citing that it runs all the way to China etc. Yeah because the women involved happened to be Chinese...lol. They make it sound like this one goes all the way to the United Nations nefarious conspiracy. No, you busted a few Chinese-American masseuses who give a happy ending for $50, which in many cultures is something you'd call a legitimate business. Just shut up about this being some major international bust.

How can anyone take what the PD is saying with any shred of credibility? At least attorneys are paid to lie and spin.

 

[Deus Irae]

The degree to which we know human trafficking exists in the US, and its associations with prostitution, pretty much makes it a sure thing that trafficking is happening in that part of Florida. Anyone who thinks otherwise is living in a fairly tale.

The fact that the Sheriff was unable to come up with adequate evidence to make an arrest in this case is just a shame. Perhaps it isn't happening in that particular massage parlor, although apparently the circumstantial evidence is pretty strong that it was. All that means is that they took a swing and missed. Anyone with any human decency wants them to swing and hit the ball. So it is a sad day for society that they didn't find enough evidence to get the criminals in this particular location. Now they need to look elsewhere, and that will mean that more people will be hurt during that time.

 

[IcyPatriot]

So we've got trafficking that's not trafficking, apparently with at least one warrant that didn't call for video. And we've got this thread.

Some form of a black hole / twilight zone indeed ...

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

Kraft's lawyers wouldn't be doing their jobs if they didn't ask for a suppression hearing. It is very common in most criminal cases. If (and that appears to be a big IF) the evidence (the video) survives the suppression hearing, then Kraft will cop a plea and try to smollet the evidence (LOL, see what I did there). The last thing you want is a video of you getting a handy from an old Chinese woman loose on the internet, believe me I know

 

[PatsWSB47]

The degree to which we know human trafficking exists in the US, and its associations with prostitution, pretty much makes it a sure thing that trafficking is happening in that part of Florida. Anyone who thinks otherwise is living in a fairly tale.

The fact that the Sheriff was unable to come up with adequate evidence to make an arrest in this case is just a shame. Perhaps it isn't happening in that particular massage parlor, although apparently the circumstantial evidence is pretty strong that it was. All that means is that they took a swing and missed. Anyone with any human decency wants them to swing and hit the ball. So it is a sad day for society that they didn't find enough evidence to get the criminals in this particular location. Now they need to look elsewhere, and that will mean that more people will be hurt during that time.

So a hunter hears a noise coming from the bushes and he just shoots at it.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

The degree to which we know human trafficking exists in the US, and its associations with prostitution, pretty much makes it a sure thing that trafficking is happening in that part of Florida. Anyone who thinks otherwise is living in a fairly tale.

The fact that the Sheriff was unable to come up with adequate evidence to make an arrest in this case is just a shame. Perhaps it isn't happening in that particular massage parlor, although apparently the circumstantial evidence is pretty strong that it was. All that means is that they took a swing and missed. Anyone with any human decency wants them to swing and hit the ball. So it is a sad day for society that they didn't find enough evidence to get the criminals in this particular location. Now they need to look elsewhere, and that will mean that more people will be hurt during that time.

Murder is also happening all over the country, and in that part of FL. Let’s write a carte blanche check to every law enforcement department to surveillance, search, and spy on everyone. And since it usually happens in a domestic setting, let’s let make sure they have the authority to secretly monitor your own residence, too.

 

[Hyped]

Can you explain what stories of misconduct you are referring to?
Do you believe that proving human trafficking is required to find kraft guilty of solicitation?
How is the case dead even with a video showing the commission if the crime? What counteracts that?

There was an article in Business Insider, IIRC, listing various cases of misconduct over the last 10 years by that specific Sheriffs office.

No, don't believe we need the Human Trafficking angle to get a guilty verdict for Kraft, but without that angle...would the DA really want to prosecute a minor offense? That is a lot of money to be spent to prosecute a hand job...

Its dead even if there's video for the same reason above. Why posecute something minor and risk a lawsuit by releasing a video that may or may not be admissable. It's a mess...get out while you are ahead. Kraf's rep took a hit...that's a win.