Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?

[Ring 6]

Let me help you with this:

1- the odds of this actually being a case of sexual trafficking are roughly 0.0%;

Would you like to explain how you know this?
There were clear reasons to believe it was.

2- they wiped their *** with the 4th amendment on this one.

They investigated a criminal enterprise, which turned out to be a criminal enterprise. By all data available to us they requested and received proper judicial approval to do so.
Please explain why you feel that way.

 

[PatriotsReign]

Xxxxx

 

[PatriotsReign]

Would you like to explain how you know this?
There were clear reasons to believe it was.


They investigated a criminal enterprise, which turned out to be a criminal enterprise. By all data available to us they requested and received proper judicial approval to do so.
Please explain why you feel that way.

How about we just use common sense. If the spa Kraft went to was seriously being investigated for human trafficking, why would they blow the investigation to arrest 50 guys for a misdemeanor? Wouldn’t that blow the trafficking case? Especially if it was part of a wider investigation across Florida.

Now every illicit spa in that state has been given notice

 

[PatriotsReign]

The main issue for me is what happens to these women when they get too old for it (and it seems like this profession ages them quickly)? Chances are, they're going to wind up needing some form of public assistance to make it through the rest of their sordid life.

Work the front desk?

 

[Ring 6]

How about we just use common sense. If the spa Kraft went to was seriously being investigated for human trafficking, why would they blow the investigation to arrest 50 guys for a misdemeanor? Wouldn’t that blow the trafficking case? Especially if it was part of a wider investigation across Florida.

Now every illicit spa in that state has been given notice

Ok let’s use common sense.

Has the investigation into trafficking been concluded? Have they obtained any evidence?
What would it serve to leave the brother open? Isn’t closing the brothel and removing the girls from the situation a success of such an investigation? Isn’t bob krafts hand job a minor piece of the trafficking investigation rather than as some are implying the whole reason to create a ruse of a trafficking investigation? Do you honestly believe that the police would make up a trafficking accusation in order to sornd their time making misdemeanor arrests for old men getting hand jobs from hookers? I understand this board wants the entire ordeal to be kraft-centric but in reality he is just a dope who stumbled into an investiagation and committed a crime.

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

Would you like to explain how you know this?
There were clear reasons to believe it was.


They investigated a criminal enterprise, which turned out to be a criminal enterprise. By all data available to us they requested and received proper judicial approval to do so.
Please explain why you feel that way.

Considering that one of our founding fathers (when he wasn't out discovering electricity) was fond of sodomizing French whores, I'm pretty sure that the government surreptitiously videotaping a whorehouse was exactly what he had in mind when they were drafting the 4th amendment.

 

[Ring 6]

Considering that one of our founding fathers (when he wasn't out discovering electricity) was fond of sodomizing French whores, I'm pretty sure that the government surreptitiously videotaping a whorehouse was exactly what he had in mind when they were drafting the 4th amendment.

THATS your argument?

 

[Ring 6]

Ok so let’s add some facts to the discussion.
Large human trafficking ring busted across Treasure Coast, Palm Beach and Orange counties

Re: probable cause

“It was clear that multiple women were working and living inside the spas. They were cooking on the back steps of the business,” Snyder said. “They were sleeping in the massage parlor on the massage tables.”
They had no access to transportation and were moved from location to location, Snyder said.

Snyder said officials were in the process of seizing $2 million to $3 million in assets.

Snyder said the women were involved in “graphic sexual activity, very risky behavior.”

He said they were from China, and that 13 Mandarin interpreters were speaking with the women.

Snyder stressed the case is bigger than what was disclosed Tuesday.

“I think it’s very safe to say without any hyperbole that this is the tip of the tip of the iceberg,” Snyder said.

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

THATS your argument?

Just being real, AJ.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: “there was no trafficking”

Li and Zhu were arrested on charges including racketeering, deriving support from the proceeds of prostitution, engaging or maintaining a place of prostitution and money laundering.

That makes at least six women jailed in the case, which Martin County sheriff’s investigators began disclosing Feb. 19. Four spas in Martin County were targeted
“The tentacles of this go from here to New York to China, in Florida from here to Orange County,” Martin County Sheriff William Snyder said in initially announcing the busts.
The latest arrests are of Li Ping Wang Borja, 49, of Naples, and Yang Gaomei, 46, of Sunrise.

Gaomei was arrested March 13, while Borja was jailed March 18. Each was arrested on charges of racketeering, money laundering, engaging in prostitution and use of a structure for prostitution, records state

More women arrested in sex spa investigation in Martin County; some spa clients fight to keep video from public

 

[Ring 6]

Just being real, AJ.

So any crime committed by a founding father should be ignored when someone commits it today?

 

[Joker]

What are the chances you will be right? 1/36
That’s a bad guess.
It turns out to be wrong 35 times and right once.
It didn’t become a good guess the 36th time.

What do the 1000 people yell the other 35 times?

A good guess would be 7 because it comes up 1/6 times.

When 2 comes up it was dumb luck. See, exactly the same as guessing at a legal
Outcome without knowing the facts.

It has NOTHING to do with the chances I'll be right you utter nimrod.If I call snakeyes and it comes up snakeyes that's a GOOD GUESS. WTF is wrong with you? It has ZERO to do with the odds, it has everything to do with a SINGLE GUESS! What the hell is wrong with you anyway? YOU ARE WRONG. Admit it for once and stop the twisting and deflecting."It didn’t become a good guess the 36th time" What 36th time??...I call snakeyes on a single throw...ONE SINGLE THROW. It comes up snakeyes. THAT is a GOOD GUESS, NOT a bad guess. Jeezus krist you're like talking to a two year old.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: “obviously the warrant was illegal because a motion was filed to exclude it”

Stuart lawyer Richard Kibbey, who represents the men, filed a motion to suppress video evidence claiming a court order that authorized the installation of cameras inside the massage rooms failed to specifically grant the authority to record video during their investigation.

A 29-page Martin County sheriff’s search warrant application filed Sept. 21 with Circuit Judge Robert Belanger requested “authorizing the monitoring and recording of visual non-audio contact,” by using covert surveillance cameras installed inside the Bridge Day Spa based in part on a suspicion that customers were soliciting prostitution and employees were engaged in and deriving proceeds from prostitution.

Belanger’s order, entitled “order for surreptitious entry and installation of electronic surveillance camera,” authorized investigators to “install in the premises to be searched video surveillance cameras, and to monitor these surveillance cameras for a period of no longer than 30 days,” and “while monitoring … take steps to minimize the invasion of privacy to any parties not engaged in the unlawful acts set forth in the affidavit.”

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

So any crime committed by a founding father should be ignored when someone commits it today?

Yes, that exactly what I'm arguing. Well done.

 

[Ring 6]

It has NOTHING to do with the3\ chances I'll be right you utter nimrod.If I call snakeyes and it comes up snakeyes that's a GOOD GUESS. WTF is wrong with you? It has ZERO to do with the odds, it has everything to do with a SINGLE GUESS! What the hell si wrong with you anyway? YOU ARE WRONG. Admit it for once and stop the twisting and deflecting."It didn’t become a good guess the 36th time" Wha

If you are going to guess what 2 dice will come up in a roll, 2 is a terrible guess.
It doesn’t suddenly become a good guess on the rare occasion it comes up, it becomes a lucky one.
Duh.

And look at the context.
I was comparing it to drawing a conclusion without knowing the facts. A blind conclusion. Whether or not it turns out to be correct t has nothing to do with the quality of the conclusion because it’s not based on facts, it’s a wild guess. If it turns out right it is only due to luck.

 

[XLIX]

Oh I guess by sheer dumb luck we happened to be be right on target about Kraft’s legal strategy. Wow @AndyJohnson , look at the luck!

It’s either sheer luck... or you read one of the dozens of articles over the last month or so that gave Kraft’s best strategy for winning his court case.

It really doesn’t take a genius to predict the #1 defense strategy of a guilty client is to try to get the evidence ruled inadmissible.

 

[Ring 6]

Yes, that exactly what I'm arguing. Well done.

Pretty much. You are disputing that it’s approriate to investigate a brothel because a founding father paid hookers.
If that is true then it extends that the founding fathers didn’t intend for anything any of them did illegally to be investigated. It’s a dumb argument. But you know that.

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

Pretty much. You are disputing that it’s approriate to investigate a brothel because a founding father paid hookers.
If that is true then it extends that the founding fathers didn’t intend for anything any of them did illegally to be investigated. It’s a dumb argument. But you know that.

Basically, the Founding Fathers were highly educated men who successfully defied tyranny and attempted to form a constitutional republic that respects individual liberty. Taping the sordid activities of a whorehouse for blackmail purposes is more in accordance with the Stasi of East Germany; not with a nation born in the principals of liberty. USA, USA!!!!!!

 

[Ring 6]

Basically, the Founding Fathers were highly educated men who successfully defied tyranny and attempted to form a constitutional republic that respects individual liberty. Taping the sordid activities of a whorehouse for blackmail purposes is more in accordance with the Stasi of East Germany; not with a nation born in the principals of liberty. USA, USA!!!!!!

Not sure where you get blackmail from since the taping was done to investigate crimes, such as trafficking and indenture servitude of young women being forced to perform sex acts.

The constitution and the judiciary of the US disagree.

 

[PatsWSB47]

Are the sex workers in these establishments criminals or victims?