Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?

[venecol]

We’re trying to bump the Malcolm Butler thread back down to #2, which would fall between the Kraft thread and the Hernandez thread, but still in front of the Deflategate thread. I think.

I’m going to go and re-watch SB highlights.

Yea you're right, I'm out too at least until something more concrete develops. There isn't enough detail to be able to make a proper judgment. I've gotten carried away without really knowing all the facts. I just hope the human trafficking thing is incorrect because that is definately the worse part of this whole narrative.

 

[Ring 6]

I thought I'd read that the investigation ended soon after Kraft was identified

I’m not sure we even know if the investigation is over.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Where's Alanis Morrissette when we need her?

It fits:

And I'm here, to remind you
Of the mess you left when you went away

 

[Joker]

As far as I'm concerned this personal indiscretion of his has nothing to do with the football team -- so far, at least.

It has to do with an old man with BILLIONS of dollars and a new **** pump stepping on his now newly inflated package, forgetting as such he is a GIGANTIC target for Sheriff Buford P. Justice and the Yee Haw Junction Citizens Outrage Committee.

I'd ask everybody WHY there's no fed involvement in what is an obvious interstate criminal enterprise, but then that would deflate the "human trafficking! must be stopped!" sudden jihad that has sprung up here and everywhere else. There ARE people far more embarrassed and concerned that THIS has become news and they work in the US State Department.

 

[Tunescribe]

There’s likely no need for a leak. From articles I’ve read it mostly likely is or will be a public record under FL freedom of information laws. The state will have to give it out to any Florida-based entity (and maybe any entity) who asks properly.

What would be the "proper" request wording? "I hereby seek access to the Jan. 20, 2019 strip mall massage parlor rub-'n'-tug video starring two aging Asian chicks and Mumbles Kraft."

 

[Joker]

The "Mumbles" defense!!

 

[Tunescribe]

The "Mumbles" defense!!

 

[Patjew]

I’m thinking about quitting my job so I can better keep up with this thread.

 

[Joker]

PJ...you've traveled in the orient extensively...ever hear of the Sun Yee On triad?

 

[Wheelman]

I’m sorry, this is too funny

View attachment 22675

Yeah, Rapistburger just takes what he wants, and gets the "eraser" to make the charges go away...

 

[cmasspatsfan]

I didnt realize we had so many attorneys here, it will be interesting to see who has the correct take.

 

[supafly]

It fits:

And I'm here, to remind you
Of the mess you left when you went away

This post brings me back to the mid-90s, where several post-high school girlfriends are angry, brooding, and disappointed with men, in general.

 

[tom444]

.

 

[VrabelJr]

Favorite name for this episode so far is “Tug Rule” how about you all?

 

[Antdawg]

Because he was pulled over to be identified since they knew he was in tape.
They did not know he was famous, so when they reviewed the tape and were ready to make an arrest it would be nice to gave find out who to arrest

If your argument is that he wasn’t a suspect then why did they pull him over and ask for his id?
Random time killing?

Ok, so they pulled him over to ID the man on the tape. Great. Why not arrest him then if he was a suspect? I'll get to that later. The whole point of the debate over the veracity of the traffic stop is whether the LEO had probable cause to do so. I don't know the letter of the law per se, but I would assume that when said traffic stop is made, the police are required to present their probable cause at that point in time. I mean, the LEO can't just pull a car over, walk up to the driver's side window and say "give me your ID, now." They're typically required to cite reason for stoppage. I'm assuming either Kraft or the driver would have been curious enough to at least ask and force the LEO to reveal his probable cause. So, what was the reason cited? Do we know? We know the reason cited wasn't they'd just seen him leave a spa where they suspect illegal activity was occurring, because Kraft doesn't return the next day if that happened. So what reason did they give to request Kraft's ID and make the stop?

We should all understand the real reason the LEO stopped Kraft's Bentley is because LEO was hoping that Kraft would squeal on himself like many of the other johns did when they made similar stops on them after leaving the spa. When Kraft did not squeal, they were left with trying to prove solicitation with a video. They still could have arrested Kraft on that stop, but chose not to. Hmmm... wonder why. Whether you want to admit it or not, THIS IS VERY REVEALING, because it shows the PD wasn't confident enough in the evidence they had (videotape) and were hoping for a confession in lieu of. Because if they felt like the tape sealed the deal, they arrest Kraft right then and there.

So, for all of you who think Kraft doesn't have a snowball's chance in wiggling out of this thing, bear this in mind and remember that he can afford the best legal representation money can buy. If there is any way he can legally maneuver himself out of this one, it will probably happen.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Favorite name for this episode so far is “Tug Rule” how about you all?

That is a good one.
I’ve also liked Spagate and Fornigate. And of course Deflategate.

 

[Antdawg]

What makes you so certain he wasn't?

Because fat chance Kraft returns the very next morning if they asked him point blank "dude, did you just pay for a tuggie?" I mean seriously, if Kraft is going to be that brazen, then he deserves whatever Goodell throws at him. That would be a flagrant middle finger to law enforcement. He wasn't questioned about the spa.

 

[Tony2046]

Ok, so they pulled him over to ID the man on the tape. Great. Why not arrest him then if he was a suspect? I'll get to that later. The whole point of the debate over the veracity of the traffic stop is whether the LEO had probable cause to do so. I don't know the letter of the law per se, but I would assume that when said traffic stop is made, the police are required to present their probable cause at that point in time. I mean, the LEO can't just pull a car over, walk up to the driver's side window and say "give me your ID, now." They're typically required to cite reason for stoppage. I'm assuming either Kraft or the driver would have been curious enough to at least ask and force the LEO to reveal his probable cause. So, what was the reason cited? Do we know? We know the reason cited wasn't they'd just seen him leave a spa where they suspect illegal activity was occurring, because Kraft doesn't return the next day if that happened. So what reason did they give to request Kraft's ID and make the stop?

We should all understand the real reason the LEO stopped Kraft's Bentley is because LEO was hoping that Kraft would squeal on himself like many of the other johns did when they made similar stops on them after leaving the spa. When Kraft did not squeal, they were left with trying to prove solicitation with a video. They still could have arrested Kraft on that stop, but chose not to. Hmmm... wonder why. Whether you want to admit it or not, THIS IS VERY REVEALING, because it shows the PD wasn't confident enough in the evidence they had (videotape) and were hoping for a confession in lieu of. Because if they felt like the tape sealed the deal, they arrest Kraft right then and there.

So, for all of you who think Kraft doesn't have a snowball's chance in wiggling out of this thing, bear this in mind and remember that he can afford the best legal representation money can buy. If there is any way he can legally maneuver himself out of this one, it will probably happen.

I agree that Kraft may wiggle out this. He should defend himself as much as possible just like anyone else should. I have no problem with that.

I do not understand your logic though. How would the LEO expect Kraft to squeal about soliciting a prostitute without revealing anything about the solicitation or the Spa visit during the stop? If that's what they're were hoping for they would have had to say something about the Spa visit during the stop.

Lastly, Kraft put himself in this position. Not the LEO. Kraft's embarrassment is not a product of how the LEO executed a traffic stop rather it is from getting filmed receiving a rub and tug at an illegal brothel.

 

[ivanvamp]

There are plenty of laws that aren't enforced but I'm not advocating for that.

Look at marijuana for example, how many kids lives were destroyed due to possesion charges. How many people have died in the drug war. Society is finally coming around and realizing how stupid the whole thing was and so it will be legal everywhere in a few more years. Obviously it needs to be regulated to keep it out of reach of minors (good luck with that) and such.

Anyway the fact that something is deemed illegal doesn't necessarily make it immoral or wrong. I bet that sodomy is still illegal in some states even between married couples. How ridiculous is that?

To this point:

Why is prostitution illegal but making porn films is not? In both cases, people are getting paid to have sex. Why does filming it and selling the film make it legal?

 

[Tony2046]

To this point:

Why is prostitution illegal but making porn films is not? In both cases, people are getting paid to have sex. Why does filming it and selling the film make it legal?

Why Is Porn Legal But Prostitution Isn't?

Perhaps you don't think much about it in your day-to-day life, but why exactly is pornography not only a multi-billion dollar industry, but also, why is it even legal? It ultimately comes down to the First Amendment. Pornography is protected under the First Amendment as artistic free expression. Prostitution, on the other hand, is defined by U.S. law as a sexual act given or received for monetary payment. Not only that, but the U.S. government maintains that prostitution "directly contributes to the modern-day slave trade and is inherently demeaning." Proponents of decriminalizing sex work say this is one of the major obstacles facing sex workers. Ultimately, in the eyes of the U.S. government, prostitution carries a stigma as being detrimental to society, while pornography offers some form of artistic value.