Kirk Herbstreit on Mac Jones

[Rob0729]

Probowl as a rookie and the playoffs. His TD dance is right up there.

Herbstreet knows his football.

Did you even watch the video or are you just mocking it because of your irrational hate of Jones?

 

[crawhammer]

"Let me just say this. I'm not going to say they're going to be the most improved offense, and he'll be the most improved quarterback in the league, but he's going to be in the top three," said Herbstreit of Jones. "Without a doubt, the Patriots are going to one of the top three improved offenses."

This is ridiculous. Top three most improved offense??

The Broncos ranked 32nd last season... Sean Payton is exactly the right remedy for Russell Wilson... major improvement coming.

The Jets ranked 29th with Zack Wilson & co. so expect a significant improvement with a rejuvenated Rodgers.

The Steelers ranked 26th but got some good returns from their rookie QB and WR and they added a couple of nice pieces in this year's draft. I like the direction they're heading.

That's 3 right there, plus I see all of these offenses improving: Bears (with Fields as a dark horse MVP candidate), Saints, Ravens and Browns.

The Patriots will have a hard time cracking the top 3 most improved offenses in 2023. Hopkins would help the cause though.

 

[Hyped]

Thoughts:

1.) Mac’s 2022 season reminded me a lot if Brady’s 2019 season…in terms of frustration.

2.) I do not see any difference between Mac and Burrow….other than Ja’Marr Chase, Tee Higgins, and Tyler Boyd basically…….

3.) Top 3 most improved? Possible, but like @crawhammer pointes out…the Broncos and Jets were actually worse than Patricia/Judge’s offense last year….no way for those two to go anywhere other than up.

 

[Kasmir]

This is ridiculous...I see all of these offenses improving: Bears (with Fields as a dark horse MVP candidate), Saints, Ravens and Browns.

The Patriots will have a hard time cracking the top 3 most improved offenses in 2023. Hopkins would help the cause though.

Fields was the worst starting passer in the league the over the last two years. The only QB with a worst 2 year EPA start to his career was JaMarcus Russell.

As a QB, Fields is an excellent runner and (so far) a lousy passer despite having the benefit of defenses to have to account for his running.

The infatuation with dual threat QB's has reached near peak insanity with the ongoing Justin Fields love, with only the continuing Trey Lance infatuation being crazier.

Coming out of college, I thought Fields would be a good QB. He has a very long way to go. Trey Lance is a joke -- he's now 3rd string on the 49'ers but folks still love him for his one great year at North Dakota State and his fit to a meme that they evidently cherish.

 

[Rob0729]

This is ridiculous. Top three most improved offense??

The Broncos ranked 32nd last season... Sean Payton is exactly the right remedy for Russell Wilson... major improvement coming.

The Jets ranked 29th with Zack Wilson & co. so expect a significant improvement with a rejuvenated Rodgers.

The Steelers ranked 26th but got some good returns from their rookie QB and WR and they added a couple of nice pieces in this year's draft. I like the direction they're heading.

That's 3 right there, plus I see all of these offenses improving: Bears (with Fields as a dark horse MVP candidate), Saints, Ravens and Browns.

The Patriots will have a hard time cracking the top 3 most improved offenses in 2023. Hopkins would help the cause though.

The Patriots had one of the worst OCs in league history. I know the anti-Mac crowd want to downplay the absolute disaster Matt Patricia was last year, but I think a 12 year old whose only play calling experience is playing Madden could have coached the offense better than Patricia last year. The Pats are far more likely to improve than the Steelers on offense.

 

[DarrylS]

From my view thought as deficient as the O game plans were the lack of buy in by Jones made it a huge cluster f... Early on we were hearing from the local scribes about how Jones seemed disinterested/confused by the offense and subsequent game plans designed by Patricia then nothing happened to make me feel different.
This year, so far, makes me feel something completely different, Jones NFL progression was stymied by what the Pats did last year, this year look forward to a much different scenario the addition of Bill O'B and a couple of different faces on offense.

 

[Triumph]

Did you even watch the video or are you just mocking it because of your irrational hate of Jones?

You dont doubt a man like Kurt Herbstreet.

He knows.

 

[archstanton543]

From my view thought as deficient as the O game plans were the lack of buy in by Jones made it a huge cluster f... Early on we were hearing from the local scribes about how Jones seemed disinterested/confused by the offense and subsequent game plans designed by Patricia then nothing happened to make me feel different.

If your new boss was an idiot who was vastly unqualified to do the job and comes up with a gameplan that makes no sense and goes against what you've been doing for at least the last 4 years of your career, you'd have a hard time buying in too. (Especially since part of that gameplan was "shut up and just run the play we call with no audibles allowed")

 

[Rob0729]

You dont doubt a man like Kurt Herbstreet.

He knows.

I have already said in the original post that it is just one opinion and I only posted the video because it is the dead portion of the off-season. All you have done is tried to go to ridiculous lengths to discredit Herbstreit and mock what he said about Jones because you hate Jones so much that you cannot let someone have a positive opinion of the guy without trying to discredit it.

 

[Rob0729]

Pat McAfee is trolling the Mac Jones haters on this board. His show is turning into a Mac Jones love fest.

 

[everlong]

The vast majority haven't worked out, but Malcolm Mitchell was a 4th rounder. His career was short, but he had a huge rookie year and was key in winning a super bowl. Jules was a 7th.

It wouldn't be unprecedented for Boutte to have a significant impact.

Dobson 2nd round, Chad Jackson 2nd round, Brandon Tate 3rd round, Harry 1st round.......Mitchell and JE11 are more the anomolies than the rule of thumb. I hope I'm proven wrong but if the kid has 32 catches for 300 somehting yards and a couple of TDs I'll be more than happy.

 

[everlong]

I'm still most concerned about the OL and not Jones or the skill players. As much as we all like to blame Patricia, myself included, the OL held them back more than anything IMO. The second half of the year was definitely better and with the play calling improving I'm hoping they keep trending in the right direction. But if they don't Jones is going to struggle again and honestly so would anyone from a pocket passer like Brady to a mobile guy like Mahomes. You simply cannot have guys in the backfield both on runs and passes in under a second and expect to have long term success.

 

[crawhammer]

The Patriots had one of the worst OCs in league history. I know the anti-Mac crowd want to downplay the absolute disaster Matt Patricia was last year, but I think a 12 year old whose only play calling experience is playing Madden could have coached the offense better than Patricia last year. The Pats are far more likely to improve than the Steelers on offense.

I have never downplayed the hiring of Matt Patricia. I unequivocally said he would be a disaster, and that Belichick had made a grossly incompetent decision, and the IBWTers called me a hater and a negative nancy. And then when the obvious came to fruition, and Belichick had trashed an entire season in his young franchise QB's career, I was told to shut up and go away.

But now that Kraft told Belichick to get rid of Patricia and hire O'Brien, the IBWTers are scapegoating Patricia for everything, including Mac's poor play, and moving onto to 2023 like last season never happened.

The fact of the matter is the "anti-Mac crowd" didn't come from nothing. He didn't play well at the beginning or end of his rookie season while making hay against a string of cupcakes midseason. Last season he played poorly, copped a worse attitude, and lacked toughness. He also has not displayed an ounce of clutch play in two seasons. So there are reasons to be skeptical of Mac moving forward.

We'll see what happens but Mac is going to need an exceptional supporting cast around him for the team to complete in 2023 given the tough schedule and the overall number of above average QBs and teams in the conference.

But to your last point, I agree the offense will be improved from last season. I just don't see top 3 overall improvement because to me there are a handful of other offenses that seemed primed for significant improvement in 2023.

 

[DarrylS]

If your new boss was an idiot who was vastly unqualified to do the job and comes up with a gameplan that makes no sense and goes against what you've been doing for at least the last 4 years of your career, you'd have a hard time buying in too. (Especially since part of that gameplan was "shut up and just run the play we call with no audibles allowed")

I never blamed Jones for his lack of buy in, just stating it was an issue for him.. Patricia was an incompetent boob who should never have been in that position of power.
When I was working would pretty much do the same thing and take it one step further subtlety sabotage the plan... I worked for many incompetent boobs...

 

[Kasmir]

I never blamed Jones for his lack of buy in, just stating it was an issue for him.. Patricia was an incompetent boob who should never have been in that position of power.
When I was working would pretty much do the same thing and take it one step further subtlety sabotage the plan... I worked for many incompetent boobs...

I don't think Patricia is an incompetent boob; I think he's an arrogant assh*le who thought he could demonstrate he deserved the OC job permanently if he could outdo McDaniels by installing a brand new and more modern offense. He got way way over his skies on that one...

 

[TheRazorsEdge]

Take note of Mac Jones going to the dump offs/rbs early and often in camp.

That tells me coaching and Mac know the oline might be a work in progress by the time the season starts. The good news is..we have an OC who can recognize this and utilize the offense to overcome it with the skills at his disposal.

Semi bad news is we will likely deal with "ugh Mac sucks , he's a dink and dunk QB, system QB" from the fairweather pink hats and media. Good news is...if it amounts to W's ..doesn't matter what they say.

Go Pats.

 

[Tunescribe]

But now that Kraft told Belichick to get rid of Patricia and hire O'Brien

What is your source confirming this? Or is it just more "make-a-wish" conjecture?

, the IBWTers are scapegoating Patricia for everything, including Mac's poor play, and moving onto to 2023 like last season never happened.

Still more of your made-up nonsense, a/k/a Brady retirement anxiety, a/k/a BB hatred. These phantom "IBWTers" you keep ranting against are figments of your anti-BB derangement. Belichick is not now nor has he ever been infallible. But he sure as hell is not deserving of the vitriol you continually dump on him because Brady went to Tampa. If you don't believe Matt Patricia was the primary factor in Mac Jones' stagnation last season you simply do not understand pro football. It has nothing to do with your ridiculous "IBWTers" fantasy.

The fact of the matter is the "anti-Mac crowd" didn't come from nothing.

As ad hoc chairman of the "anti-Mac crowd," it would make more sense for you to come clean and admit your Patriots-hating agenda. Kraft and Belichick presided over Brady's departure, after Cam's interim stand-in Mac succeeded Brady as the team's starting quarterback. You don't want any of these three to enjoy success post-Brady. Deny and gaslight all you want, it's clear as day. The self-serving rationales you've conjured around this obsession in the name of faux "objectivity" are pretty damn warped, especially while masquerading as a fan of this team. Give it up or just go away.

 

[Rob0729]

I have never downplayed the hiring of Matt Patricia. I unequivocally said he would be a disaster, and that Belichick had made a grossly incompetent decision, and the IBWTers called me a hater and a negative nancy. And then when the obvious came to fruition, and Belichick had trashed an entire season in his young franchise QB's career, I was told to shut up and go away.

But now that Kraft told Belichick to get rid of Patricia and hire O'Brien, the IBWTers are scapegoating Patricia for everything, including Mac's poor play, and moving onto to 2023 like last season never happened.

The fact of the matter is the "anti-Mac crowd" didn't come from nothing. He didn't play well at the beginning or end of his rookie season while making hay against a string of cupcakes midseason. Last season he played poorly, copped a worse attitude, and lacked toughness. He also has not displayed an ounce of clutch play in two seasons. So there are reasons to be skeptical of Mac moving forward.

We'll see what happens but Mac is going to need an exceptional supporting cast around him for the team to complete in 2023 given the tough schedule and the overall number of above average QBs and teams in the conference.

But to your last point, I agree the offense will be improved from last season. I just don't see top 3 overall improvement because to me there are a handful of other offenses that seemed primed for significant improvement in 2023.

First, I never scapegoated Patricia, but anyone with any ounce of objectivity would agree that the two biggest issues with the offense last year were Patricia and the offensive tackles and #3 wasn't remotely close to those problems. I have said that I put Jones at #3 or #4 reason for the problems with the offense with the receivers. Personally, I think the receivers were a bigger issue because they ran bad routes and never looked back for the ball when they were supposed to. But I can see someone making the case for Jones at #3.

Second, Jones bad play at the end of his rookie season is way overrated. He was inconsistent, but not awful. At times he was awful and other times he played the best football of the season. The Indy game is indicative of that where he played awful the first half of the game and pretty damn good the second half. But a lot of his issues down the stretch his rookie year was also due to the fact the defense fell apart and he was forced to air out the ball a lot and make far riskier throws with a below average receiving corp. That isn't the whole reason for his decline in play, but it is a factor that people who trash his down the stretch performance refuse to admit. But no one seems to hold the defense falling apart down the stretch against them.

Third, I got news for you most QBs need a very good supporting cast. The QBs who can elevate a mediocre receiving corp are rare. The only QB we know for sure who can do it today is Mahomes. None of the other top QBs in the league have anything short of at least one elite receiver. Look at Tua. Tua wasn't any better in 2021 than Jones who was in his rookie season (and Tua at least had Waddle and Parker who was the Pats' #1 receiver last year). Now he is considered a top 10 possibly even bordering on a top five with Tyreek Hill.

Fourth, I think you are underestimating the jump this offense is going to make. I don't know what Jones is going to be and I don't expect this offense to be a top 5 offense or possibly not even top 10. But it was painfully obvious last year that Patricia wanted to force the offense to run a system that was not condusive to their strengths and each individual game plan seemed to be just throw crap against the wall and figure out what works. And like in the Bengals games, Patricia would discover something that works like Jones excelling with the play-action, and the never run it again for the rest of the game. He designed route routes that made it easier for teams to defend and even got the Patriots' receivers injured by running into them. I have never seen a worse OC than Patricia in my decades of watching football. I have seen some bad OCs just call bad and/or predictable plays, but I have never seen an OC who failed at every aspect of the job so bad as Patricia did. And I went into the season defending Patricia and thinking he could do at least an adequet job.

 

[Rob0729]

I'm still most concerned about the OL and not Jones or the skill players. As much as we all like to blame Patricia, myself included, the OL held them back more than anything IMO. The second half of the year was definitely better and with the play calling improving I'm hoping they keep trending in the right direction. But if they don't Jones is going to struggle again and honestly so would anyone from a pocket passer like Brady to a mobile guy like Mahomes. You simply cannot have guys in the backfield both on runs and passes in under a second and expect to have long term success.

I think Patricia was the clear #1 problem last year (and that was in part that he was also the o-line coach). But I agree the OTs were a huge problem last year.

Trent Brown was an absolute dog who didn't even try to block on a lot of downs. The fact that he seems to be disgruntled this year and came to mini-camp out of shape gives me fears that he could be a dog this year too. My only hope is he is in a contract year and will be willing to make an effort so he can get one last biggish contract. If he can be at least an above average LT like he has the ability to be, I am not worried about the RT as much. They have enough bodies to figure something out.

 

[crawhammer]

If you don't believe Matt Patricia was the primary factor in Mac Jones' stagnation last season you simply do not understand pro football. It has nothing to do with your ridiculous "IBWTers" fantasy.

Apparently you don't understand. 2023 and Patricia are entirety on Belichick. So no I don't believe at all Patricia was the primarily factor. Belichick clearly was. And even with that, Mac Jones played poorly and lacked composure and toughness. Mac doesn't escape blame for his failings.

Kraft and Belichick presided over Brady's departure, after Cam's interim stand-in Mac succeeded Brady as the team's starting quarterback. You don't want any of these three to enjoy success post-Brady.

Who cares what anyone "wants"? It is what it is. They will either succeed or they won't. So far they haven't. Belichick never has as a HC without TB12. It is what it is. Am I wrong?

And if they or anyone of them succeed for the Patriots organization you think I'm going to pout about it? No, I'll celebrate it like any Patriots fan.