Kirk Herbstreit on Mac Jones

[PatsFan2]

I do think it is funny that he does think the Broncos will make a huge jump because Sean Payton is replacing a guy who was so awful that he made Russell Wilson look like a scrub. Yet he thinks the Jets will be most improved when their OC is now the guy who was so awful that he made Russell Wilson look like a scrub last year.

And sure some people expect Kenny Pickett should have a big year two bounce, but they expected that from Mac Jones, Zach Wilson, and Justin Fields. That is far from a guarantee. He could regress for all we know now that teams have enough tape and an entire offseason to study him and make a book on him. I don't get the Pickett love to begin with. He was ok for a rookie with a few flashes, but he still only got 2404 yards, 7 TDs, and 9 INTs in 13 games and has yet to throw for more than one TD in any one game.

But Pickett had Four game winning Drives as a Rookie I don't think Mac has one yet.

 

[Rob0729]

Have you see the WR Talent around Fields in 2023?? DJ Moore - Darnell Mooney - Chase Claypool and Velus Jones Jr.
just to name a few. IF Justin Fields don't show marked improvements with that cast then he flat out Stinks!

Claypool was awful with Fields last year. Although Mooney only played 12 games last year, he wasn't great either.

Sure, Fields has a talented roster, but I don't know if the receivers around has been the issue with his throwing issues. He seems to fall into the trap that a lot of mobile QBs get into. He wants to take off running whenever there is the slightest sense of pressure and it causes him to make bad throws. He has developed a lot of bad habits that I am not sure can be coached out of him.

 

[PatsFan2]

Claypool was awful with Fields last year. Although Mooney only played 12 games last year, he wasn't great either.

Sure, Fields has a talented roster, but I don't know if the receivers around has been the issue with his throwing issues. He seems to fall into the trap that a lot of mobile QBs get into. He wants to take off running whenever there is the slightest sense of pressure and it causes him to make bad throws. He has developed a lot of bad habits that I am not sure can be coached out of him.

Mid season Trade new Offense a perennial 850yds guy I say Claypool bounces back I wanted him for us.

 

[Rob0729]

But Pickett had Four game winning Drives as a Rookie I don't think Mac has one yet.

Did you look at those games:

Against the Browns, he got a last minute TD to win the game 16-13.
Against the Raiders, he got a last minute TD to win 13-10.
Against Indy, the Steelers did get the last points of the game, but with nearly ten minutes left in the game to win 24-17. It is a stretch to call that a game winning TD.

I just looked at his game log. Those are the only three games last year that the Steelers won by a TD or less where the Steelers scored last. If you want a QB who cannot score more than 13 or 16 points vs awful defenses like Cleveland and the Raiders, but can get a last minute TD; Kenny Pickett is your guy. Mac Jones might not have gotten those last minute TDs, but he probably wouldn't have needed them since the Pats would be already winning the games.

People on this board way overrate Pickett last minute TDs. A good QB wouldn't have needed a last minute TD against teams that scored 13, 10, or 17 points in a game.

 

[Kasmir]

Another one to drive CrapSpammer crazy:

Jones vs Allen thru 2 years

 

[Rob0729]

Mid season Trade new Offense a perennial 850yds guy I say Claypool bounces back I wanted him for us.

I am not saying Claypool struggled with the offense. He was absolutely terrible. He played 7 games for the Bears and had 14 catches for 140 yards and no TDs in those seven games. That is terrible.

We were running Sanu out of town for 59 catches for 520 yards and two TDs for 15 games.

 

[PatsFan2]

Did you look at those games:

Against the Browns, he got a last minute TD to win the game 16-13.
Against the Raiders, he got a last minute TD to win 13-10.
Against Indy, the Steelers did get the last points of the game, but with nearly ten minutes left in the game to win 24-17. It is a stretch to call that a game winning TD.

I just looked at his game log. Those are the only three games last year that the Steelers won by a TD or less where the Steelers scored last. If you want a QB who cannot score more than 13 or 16 points vs awful defenses like Cleveland and the Raiders, but can get a last minute TD; Kenny Pickett is your guy. Mac Jones might not have gotten those last minute TDs, but he probably wouldn't have needed them since the Pats would be already winning the games.

People on this board way overrate Pickett last minute TDs. A good QB wouldn't have needed a last minute TD against teams that scored 13, 10, or 17 points in a game.

The NFL calls them game winning drives don't shoot the messenger.

 

[PatsFan2]

I am not saying Claypool struggled with the offense. He was absolutely terrible. He played 7 games for the Bears and had 14 catches for 140 yards and no TDs in those seven games. That is terrible.

But you said Fields is a terrible passer always looking to run which we experienced first hand nothing a WR like Claypool could do there.

 

[Kasmir]

Hasn't Trey Lance problem been that he can't stay healthy?? I would hate to cast judgment on only eight games.

Sure, but a dual threat QB who gets injured and can't run isn't a dual threat QB anymore. There's sure a continuing hype train for Trey Lance, but reports are also that he is an inaccurate passer and not an elusive runner even when he is healthy. Most likely a bust, beaten out by Mr Irrelevant the Pocket Passer (Brock Purdy)

 

[Rob0729]

The NFL calls them game winning drives don't shoot the messenger.

But that is why looking at these things in a vaccum is misleading. When the only TD you can score is on that last drive, it isn't as impressive.

 

[Rob0729]

But you said Fields is a terrible passer always looking to run which we experienced first hand nothing a WR like Claypool could do there.

I am not blaming Claypool. I am saying he was terrible last year. I think most of the problems are that Fields is a horrible passer and doesn't let plays to develop and doesn't see the field.

If Fields had Jones' brain, he would be an elite QB. Visa versa with Jones.

 

[PatsFan2]

I am not blaming Claypool. I am saying he was terrible last year. I think most of the problems are that Fields is a horrible passer and doesn't let plays to develop and doesn't see the field.

If Fields had Jones' brain, he would be an elite QB. Visa versa with Jones.

So much intrigue in year three can't wait to see.
.

 

[Kasmir]

I am not blaming Claypool. I am saying he was terrible last year. I think most of the problems are that Fields is a horrible passer and doesn't let plays to develop and doesn't see the field.

If Fields had Jones' brain, he would be an elite QB. Visa versa with Jones.

As I pointed out in my endless debate with BGC, in my opinion the problem with investing in dual threat QB's is that rushing skills disappear quickest in the NFL; RB's have the shortest careers and QB's the longest (except for kickers).

It's not that running QB's get injured more often than pocket QB's, it's that their rushing abilities are much more strongly impacted by cumulative injuries than their passing ability, so you can't expect to have a dual threat career as a QB much longer than a RB's career.

And the double whammy for a dual threat QB losing their rushing threat is not only that they have to increasingly rely only on their passing skills, but passing defenses become harder for them when they play 10 on 11 instead of 11 on 11.

Fields was very productive running last year (but not close to Lamar Jackson's efficiency). He has already missed a game (with a hip injury), and is projected by some to miss 3 games in 2023. If Fields can't run he needs to vastly improve from being the worst passing QB in the league to not become a colossal bust.

Justin Fields Injury History & Updates

Justin Fields Injury History & Updates. Our injury data is so comprehensive, even NFL teams have paid for it. Our algorithm even predicts injuries

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[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

But that is why looking at these things in a vaccum is misleading. When the only TD you can score is on that last drive, it isn't as impressive.

It's like a Tim Tebow comeback. Suck for 3 or 3.5 full quarters then somehow pull it out in the end.

 

[PatsFan2]

It's like a Tim Tebow comeback. Suck for 3 or 3.5 full quarters then somehow pull it out in the end.

And IF Mac finally have one it will count has his First he's still a virgin is that area.

 

[sb1]

And IF Mac finally have one it will count has his First he's still a virgin is that area.

Mac has 1 game winning drive. I believe it was the Texans game in 2021.

 

[Rob0729]

And IF Mac finally have one it will count has his First he's still a virgin is that area.

Mac should have had one vs. the Cowboys in his rookie season, but the defense gave up gave up 24 yards on a third and 25 with 31 seconds left in regulation to allow the Cowboys to get into field goal position to send it into overtime. You cannot put that on Mac.

He could have had one vs, the Bucs except for a missed long, but makeable field goal by Nick Folk.

Against Miami in his first game of his career, Mac got the offense down to the Miami 11 yard line down 19-17 with four minutes left and Harris fumbled away the football. No one scored after that. That might have been a game winning drive.

In most of the games the Pats have lost in the last few years, they haven't been in a position for Jones to have an opportunity to have a game winning drive. In one, he succeeded and the defense totally let him down. In two others, he put them in position to potentially have one and someone else failed to make it happen.

There may have been like two, maybe three other games where Jones had the opportunity to score a game winning drive because the score was close enough. You cannot score a game winning drive in games where you are down more than one score at the end of the game.

 

[Kasmir]

And IF Mac finally have one it will count has his First he's still a virgin is that area.

How important is that stat? I did the calcs, and Tom Brady is 27th all time in GWD/season right after Kyler Murray and just ahead of Andy Dalton.

My guess is that stat penalizes QB's on very strong or very weak teams, and rewards those on 0.500 teams who see the most close games.

 

[PatsFan2]

Mac has 1 game winning drive. I believe it was the Texans game in 2021.

Link please waiting...

 

[PatsFan2]

How important is that stat? I did the calcs, and Tom Brady is 27th all time in GWD/season right after Kyler Murray and just ahead of Andy Dalton.

My guess is that stat penalizes QB's on very strong or very weak teams, and rewards those on 0.500 teams who see the most close games.

Because Tom Brady was rarely down by two or three scores in a game winningest QB.