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Jordan Richards . and STAR position


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Some new JR discussions are rising in different threads so i thought we could open a new Jordan Richards thread.. another reason is thinking about position that is known as STAR position in college and is connected to BB.

Let's start with a couple of interesting quotes from another thread:
(hope @unoriginal doesn't mind)

But hopefully people have noticed the Pats used a lot of 3-3 and 5-1 fronts in Preseason Game 3. Richards played all game and spent a lot of the day as an EOL/EDGE player in those looks. That role fits his MO to a T and he didn't look out of place doing it. I can't say exactly how well he did but the Patriots tested him out thoroughly this preseason in what is essentially a new position. The one guy who did look out of sorts in those fronts (Kony Ealy) was cut basically the next day, so this wasn't a weird experiment or a small part of the team's plans. They want guys that can do this and Richards apparently can.
This may be the first time in Patriots history the elusive big safety/linebacker has made the opening roster. That's what I think Richards is at this point.

He looked bigger to me. I'd guess he's 225 lbs now but I wasn't sizing him or even watching him that closely. Just noted he kept popping up in an unusual position.
Deone Buchanan is a former SS that plays LB for the Cards in their starting defense at a listed 6' 220 lbs. Zach Thomas played MLB at 5'10" 235 lbs. Richards could be an interesting piece in this pass-crazy NFL, over having Van Noy scamper after wheel routes.


Here some of my thoughts on discussions why keeping Richards..

1. 2016 was a regression to a not too impressive rookie campaign for Richards. The last meaningful snaps he saw (exclusively on ST) was SEA game. As we know after this game the last BB shake up followed and Richards slowly disappeared from the active roster. Chung and McCourty were core STers in playoffs which is not ideal id guess and can probably happen only under BB.

2. FF to 2107, first reports were that he had a promising start of the season with some PBUs and contested coverages of Gronk although it seemed he is mostly that one crucial step behind. Preseason games unfortunately showed the usual liabilities despite playing vs 2nd stringers. They were playing him at FS a lot at the beginning but it was ugly many times. It proved once more that he is still a liability in open space and its not just about the speed.

BTW - All this time he was playing core ST role and even took some leadership duties there (as far as I could see) and he did really well.

Later they moved him closer to LOS and it was better. @DET he saw snaps with 1st D as 3rd or even 4th S in what seemed like STAR position (hybrid LB/S) “invented“ by Saban and BB in CLE. (By the way I also thought he looks a bit bigger this year so this will be interesting to monitor.)

here great Saban's explanation of the STAR position etc. - starting at 5:30


I felt this is the position BB is thinking about a lot last yrs trying to bring somebody that would fit. I thought KGH f.e. was an attempt in that direction. Chung plays it sometimes of course but he lacks some quickness for the position so he can be exposed there. Richards' measurements mirror Chung's with two differences: Chung is/was much stronger (BP), Richards much quicker (3-cone). One problem w Richards is that he looks slow and I don't think that is just about speed.

Saban describes what is important for STAR position: “good tackler, good blitzer, good cover guy on the slot player“. I guess also IQ and instincts are very important.

When Richards was drafted a lot was said about his leadership, maturity and IQ. IQ is important but instincts might be even more important to succeed on the field and I wonder if this is part of the problem with Jordan because I didn't think he had good instincts watching his college tape. Maybe he can read the play well but maybe he also thinks about it too much and that adds to the slowness..

TBC..
 
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Richards needs a Cannon/Second-coming-Chung type year. Otherwise, he'll continue being a non-factor & be an afterthought.
 
I think Richards not only have damaging pictures of BB but also of his Sons. BB did say he was smart...smart in black mailing coaches even a rocket scientist like Patricia can't figure Richards out.:rolleyes:
 
It has been frustrating.

But I think as the passing game has evolved, the strong safety role has really changed. Maybe it takes longer to get acclimated to it now. Chung had to leave and come back before he really matured into the role.

The last guy who never seemed to get it was Tavon Wilson, who finally left and emerged as a starter for a play-off team in Detroit.

So I am pretty down on Richards, but still not giving up. I feel stupid admitting that. But it's true.
 
Good post. I remember how BB has been trying to find a STAR LB for a while before Chung kinda nailed it on his second tour of duty. I remember the experiments with Ebner in 2014 at the beginning of the season.

On paper Richards looks like a good fit for it but he plays even slower than his numbers suggest and maybe more importantly his tackling consistency has taken a nosedive this preseason. Cant have that especially at this position.
 
(forgot to add Id appreciate some constructive discussion since its the subject Im very interested in and trying to understand better..)


Going back to the subject of searching for players who could fit the position I was somewhat intrigued by the acquisition of M.Flowers. I understand that it is viewed as pure ST move but I wonder if they might try something with him at that hybrid position?

He has bigger body (playing between 235-250lbs) he is also taller (6'25) but nevertheless he has great speed (4.5) and also good quickness (7.0). He is strong (BP:24) and solid tackler. He played both safety and OLB in college.

Here a good pre-draft analysis:
2014 NFL Draft Scouting Report – Marquis Flowers, OLB Arizona

While he is projected as liability LB esp. in the front 7 traffic . this analysis shows he could fit in Saban's STAR description: “good tackler, good blitzer, good cover guy on the slot player“.

There is not much NFL D tape on him to see how that translates to NFL. He was injured last preseason game in 2015 and missed all season. Watching his preseason tape they did used him at SAM but also in that hybrid role and also as safety.

Here you can see his great play on West from the opposite S position:
(starts at 1:10; look at #53)
Charcandrick West highlights | Preseason Week 2
.
 
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Good post. I remember how BB has been trying to find a STAR LB for a while before Chung kinda nailed it on his second tour of duty. I remember the experiments with Ebner in 2014 at the beginning of the season.

On paper Richards looks like a good fit for it but he plays even slower than his numbers suggest and maybe more importantly his tackling consistency has taken a nosedive this preseason. Cant have that especially at this position.


His tackling from FS position was ugly, I agree, his tackling from STAR was solid IIRC.
 
His tackling from FS position was ugly, I agree, his tackling from STAR was solid IIRC.

Might have to rewatch some of the preseason games but I vivdly remember him missing 1-2 sure tackles close to the LoS.

Either way, realistically STAR lb really is the "ideal" position for him. Hope he can make it work somehow.
 
He's terrible. How about getting a star position player who isn't weak, unathletic and slow. Oh, but richards plays special teams, i forgot. It's not like almost any decent football player could do that.

Whoever scouted richards and jones needs to be fired. Jones was regularly mocked by the alabama faithful for poor play. And the pats make him a second round pick? Good lord.
 
Bills been looking to fill this position for 15 years it seems lol. I though Telvin Smith might have been a decent fit coming out a few years ago but Bill has his ways.

Idk but I think it's evident that he should closer to the l.o.s. at all times. I dont want him in space chasing down players.


It has been frustrating.

But I think as the passing game has evolved, the strong safety role has really changed. Maybe it takes longer to get acclimated to it now. Chung had to leave and come back before he really matured into the role.

The last guy who never seemed to get it was Tavon Wilson, who finally left and emerged as a starter for a play-off team in Detroit.

So I am pretty down on Richards, but still not giving up. I feel stupid admitting that. But it's true.


Never feel stupid for hoping someone on the Pats puts it together.
 
More like FART or SHART position.

Bill, I know you think you're the smartest guy in the room and can coach anyone up, but your players need SOME athletic talent to succeed. When you play in the secondary and you're slow, it's normally not a good thing.
 
More like FART or SHART position.

Bill, I know you think you're the smartest guy in the room and can coach anyone up, but your players need SOME athletic talent to succeed. When you play in the secondary and you're slow, it's normally not a good thing.

I'm surprised bill passed on Landon Collins in 2015 at number 32.
 
He's terrible. How about getting a star position player who isn't weak, unathletic and slow. Oh, but richards plays special teams, i forgot. It's not like almost any decent football player could do that.

Whoever scouted richards and jones needs to be fired. Jones was regularly mocked by the alabama faithful for poor play. And the pats make him a second round pick? Good lord.


Exactly - - he is Weak, Unathletic, Slow but Smart (W.U.S.S.).

Given that he IS smart, make him an assistant coach to Joe Judge and free up a needed roster spot, please. End this charade now.

Look, I hate dumping on him, because he seems like a great smart kid and he'll probably cure cancer someday, but he simply shows no signs whatsoever of being able to play professional football. I've been squinting for 2+ years watching the kid, hoping to see something ANYTHING there. It's befuddling.

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I don't see why you should, given that Malcolm Brown had all the hallmarks of another Vince Wilfork tumble into Bill's lap.

Well, I thought Landon flashed more in college than brown did. And so far in their careers, Landon has been a helluva lot better player than brown. After an inconsistent rookie year they moved him back to his normal position and he's not only been one of the best strong safeties in the league, but one of the best defensive players in the NFL. Malcolm Brown has a long way to go to get to the pro bowl level.

Brown was a good pick don't get me wrong, I was just shocked Landon fell to 32
 
Wasn't Arrington known for effectively playing the STAR position/slot CB?
 
Exactly - - he is Weak, Unathletic, Slow but Smart (W.U.S.S.).

Given that he IS smart, make him an assistant coach to Joe Judge and free up a needed roster spot, please. End this charade now.

Look, I hate dumping on him, because he seems like a great smart kid and he'll probably cure cancer someday, but he simply shows no signs whatsoever of being able to play professional football. I've been squinting for 2+ years watching the kid, hoping to see something ANYTHING there. It's befuddling.
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sounds familiar though.. (Cannon, White, LGB..)
 
sounds familiar though.. (Cannon, White, LGB..)


Absolutely not.

No one was saying any of THOSE players were too slow or weak to play in the NFL.

This kid does not have the athletic ability to play pro ball. It's abundantly clear.

Smart kid though, and I'd be happy to invest in his future company.

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