John Harbaugh is a cry baby

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I should just ignore it but...I...cannnot... resist.....

Taping defensive signals in an earlier game gives you knowledge about the other team's offense?? How does that work?

Just go with it.

here in "the 'burgh" boatloads of rejects still think that the taping of defensive signals is the sole reason Rodney had the "pick six".

The fact that the Jets had a "pick six" on the same exact play the week before meant nothing.
 

Brady_to_Moss

28-3....
PatsFans.com Supporter
So glad we beat them in the AFC champ game...franchise is nothing but a bunch of cry babies

How did the AFC champ game go for you john? Twat
 

rainmaker

Practice Squad Player
Bruschi is the man. Way to defend your coach and your team. He probably made ESPN add in the Harbaugh apology so readers aren't misled. Nice how he fit in the drop in the end zone and missed FG. Harbaugh did the right thing and made it right. He handled it with class.
 

lillloyd

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
I had no issue with what he said, he was speaking on the perception of the public that the championships were tainted, and will forever be, whether we believe that or not.

As fans who know what spygate actually was, we have 0 reason to believe anything is tainted, but ignorant media folk and fans of teams we've thrashed for the past decade will cling to it as an excuse for their inferior organization.

Harbaugh is not an idiot, and he is a far better coach than most others in the NFL, and he has been a pretty classy and standup guy for the most part, even in his losses. He has also done nothing but respect BB in the past, he shouldn't have had to apologize for what he said, it is just another case of the media twisting words once again, they changed the meaning of spygate, they put words in Harbaughs mouth, this is nothing new, they do it all the time. Look at Osi right now, Osi states that he isn't being a greedy pig, yet every articles title is written in a way to insinuate that the Giant's FO called him a greedy pig for not accepting an offer worth half of what an inferior player (Kiwanuka) is making.

This is a non story that has been twisted into something by the attention whoring media.

+1 on this, although Harbaugh can be over the edge sometimes with his comments. That said, I don't think he actually says here that *he* believes the Pats were undeserving or wouldn't have won without the taping; I think he's just saying that's how public perception works.

I've gotta say, my reaction to all this when this news first broke was kind of similar. I think the championships the Pats won are completely deserved, and whatever marginal advantage that might have been gleaned from any taping is so miniscule as to not be much of an issue. What I never understood was why BB and his staff even bothered in the first place.

Those were GREAT teams (particularly '03-'04!) with a tremendous coaching staff that frankly didn't need any help. Regardless of the technical legality or illegality at that time, he's astute enough to understand that this sort of thing would be pretty controversial if it ever saw the light of day. Forgetting anyone outside the NE locker room for a moment, it always seemed BB inadvertently did a disservice *to his own players* to sanction anything of this sort, which after all really never had anything at all to do with them.

I felt actually felt pretty bad for Bruschi in that interview--he was a great player who always seemed to do things the right way, but he's clearly (and understandably) bothered and frustrated by the perception that the taping actually helped. FWIW I'm sure if Bruschi or the other NE players had ever been asked if they wanted this sort of "help", they would have roundly rejected it (because they would have understood they didn't need it!)

For me the ultimate question regarding "Spygate" isn't whether the championships are "tainted" (I've always thought this was untrue and overly simplistic). Rather, it is "Why even bother in the first place?" BB is a brilliant guy, but that decision was a genuine head-scratcher and unnecessarily opened NE's players to criticism that will follow them for a long time...all for an "advantage" that is negligible. I think this is what Harbaugh was trying to say, albeit in an all-thumbs sort of way--that he wants to avoid these sorts of things because the perception will stick even if the underlying facts are untrue.
 

lillloyd

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
Just go with it.

here in "the 'burgh" boatloads of rejects still think that the taping of defensive signals is the sole reason Rodney had the "pick six".

The fact that the Jets had a "pick six" on the same exact play the week before meant nothing.

FWIW not everyone thinks that, although I'm sure there are a lot of people who believe it.

That was a terrific defense, playing a rookie QB in a major, pressure game. 'Nuff said.
 

ausbacker

TB12
PatsFans.com Supporter
This is another example of why people shouldn't comment on issues they have no intimate knowledge of where their comments can be misconstrued. You can guarantee what will be on the locker room walls in Week 3.
 
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PatsWSB47

Pro Bowl Player
Plus, videotaping from the stands isn't even illegal. I do it all the time.

And Costas asked Goodell point blank about this question, and Goodell couldn't answer it because he knew it was legal. Goodell finally said, "But they weren't using a video recording device from the stands, Bob, they were using a camera recorder from the field."

That my friends is a difference without any distinction, and I apologize for confusing the Bills fan given his peabrain which can't understand basics.

Can you or anyone get a link for that. Thanks in advance
 

upstater1

Pro Bowl Player
LOL, that was epic tnx...I'll have to bookmark that for the dbag haters.

eh, it gets some basics wrong. Videotaping is legal as long as it's not from the field or an open space. You can videotape in the stadium from a space that has two walls. Also, your good friend (who doesn't work for the Patriots) can film from the stands.
 

crew1954

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
"On Sept. 9, 2007, a Patriots cameraman was caught illegally videotaping the New York Jets' sideline during a game at Giants Stadium. It mushroomed into a controversy that hovered over the Patriots during their historic 16-0 season in 2007. Ultimately, the league handed down severe sanctions, with Belichick receiving a $500,000 fine. The Patriots were fined $250,000 and were stripped of a first-round draft pick."

The use of law enforcement terms by ESPN ( quoted above) and others also makes this appear a bigger issue than it is.

There was no law to make this' illegal', else the FBI would have been busting BB and not Goodells ex-jet goon squad ( well ok, but I picture that).

If it were really a 'fine', it would be the Justice Department or SEC ( don't worry not talking about Hightowers conference) or someone with legal authority.

I had an argument with American Airlines about these terms over an airline ticket.

Despite repeated requests to know what State or Federal law had been violated, and to which Government Agency my 'fine' would go, I could not even make the 3-4 individuals understand that whatever I was doing to American was not illegal ( it was buying a roundtrip and just using the outbound ticket and tossing the return, as the roundtrip was cheaper than a one way).
 
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robbomango

In the Starting Line-Up
eh, it gets some basics wrong. Videotaping is legal as long as it's not from the field or an open space. You can videotape in the stadium from a space that has two walls. Also, your good friend (who doesn't work for the Patriots) can film from the stands.

I caught that as well, if I new diddly about making videos I'd of probably fixed it.
 

upstater1

Pro Bowl Player
I replied in the PFT article on Mangini's regret:

As a Patriots fan, I don’t blame Mangini because…

1. The Patriots had informed the NFL that Mangini was taping in Foxboro the season before.

2. This occurred after the NFL sent out the memo on taping.

3. The NFL said that the Jets had permission (huh? permission to do something illegal? permission to cheat? what?) though the Patriots said no one gave them permission, and the NFL couldn’t produce a name. Goodell and Ray Anderson (former Jets employees) sure had a laugh over that one.

4. Why would I blame Mangini when the Patriots did the exact same thing to Mangini? The lesson the Patriots thought they had learned was that the league memo was not to be taken seriously.

Now, here are some common misconceptions about Spygate:

1. The Patriots taped the Rams SB practice. That was shown to be a lie by a disgruntled employee, and even if it weren’t, the Rams are on record as saying they only walked through red zone plays during that practice. The only 2 times the Rams made it to the red zone during the SB they scored TDs, so whatever the Patriots learned by taping (refuted of course) didn’t work.

2. The videotapes helped the Patriots’ defense. People actually still think this. The taping was of defensive signals, not offensive signals.

3. Taping helped them win all three Super Bowls. Taping could have helped them win the first one since they actually played the Rams that year and had tape on them. But the other Super Bowls were won without tape. In fact, the last time the Patriots played the Panthers, for instance, was three years prior when George Seifert was still the coach. The Patriots had no tape on the Panthers.

3A. OK, the Patriots might have had tape on the Panthers if someone sent them the coaches’ tape of prior games, in which you can see the signals on the sidelines. You can steal signals that way. But it’s just a PITA because you have to then sync them up with the time of the play. This is why it’s better to tape signals by devoting a camera to it, so that the signals relate to the play and the time in the game.

4. It’s illegal to videotape signals. NO, it’s not. You can videotape them as long as you’re in an enclosure of at least 2 walls. The Patriots were taping them at field level. BFD.

Bogus arguments:

1. The Patriots offense was only successful during those years because of taping. Anyone see the stats against the Rams? They were not pretty. if anything, the Patriots offense has been stellar since Spygate, it’s a record-breaking offense now. Before, it was mediocre.

2. Patriots can win a Super Bowl without tape. They already have. They couldn’t possibly have illegal tape on the Panthers, for instance.
 

Seneschal2

In the Starting Line-Up
Harbaugh was asked about the Saints bounty scandal and whether bending the rules was worth doing to gain advantage. Here is part of how he responded.

I heard the audio of his Q&A and had no problem with what he said. Fans and media are too reactive and consistently rush to manufacture controversy.

Listen, I hate the misperceptions about "Spygate" as much as anyone. But I can't argue with what he said ... in the minds of many across the country the Pats' titles are stained, meaning that episode shapes their perception.
The human race is not as evolved as some may think. The lynch mob mentality still exists -- where facts are seldom welcomed.

That to me — the perception — is what sucks the most. We as Pats fans can argue all day about the details and the real effect on games (not to mention the grossly incorrect stories that are still floated), but that perception will not change, and we will not get over that hump until the Pats win another Super Bowl or three.
Correct. As disturbing as it is to be reminded of that episode, reminded we will be -- every season for the rest of our lives, as long as we continue to follow the sport. Live with it, deal with it -- and get over it. That Uncle Sam big finger of blame will continue...as the evolutionary process moves very slowly...
 

KontradictioN

Probably the nicest guy on the forum
PatsFans.com Supporter
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
How would that have helped his football team?
That is his concern. Whether other fans, coaches, players make comments like this years later means nothing to BB.
If yuo gave him the choice of being exonerated in the media and having his team losing focus or being villainized while his team stayed focussed there is no doubt what he would choose.
We can talk all we want about what he could have done that would be best for message board posters, but that was never part of the decision making process, nor should it have been,

And blowing other teams out while running up the score on the likes of the hapless Buffalo Bills in a scorched earth campaign helped the team anymore than simply pointing out that it was a simple rules infraction and not cheating would have?

Oh, and for the record, I'm in favor of playing until the whistle. I just fail to see the logic behind panning bringing up the FACTS in the face of pressure because "it wouldn't have helped the team" and not panning what he actually did as a response to SpyGate.
 
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upstater1

Pro Bowl Player
+1 on this, although Harbaugh can be over the edge sometimes with his comments. That said, I don't think he actually says here that *he* believes the Pats were undeserving or wouldn't have won without the taping; I think he's just saying that's how public perception works.

I've gotta say, my reaction to all this when this news first broke was kind of similar. I think the championships the Pats won are completely deserved, and whatever marginal advantage that might have been gleaned from any taping is so miniscule as to not be much of an issue. What I never understood was why BB and his staff even bothered in the first place.

Those were GREAT teams (particularly '03-'04!) with a tremendous coaching staff that frankly didn't need any help. Regardless of the technical legality or illegality at that time, he's astute enough to understand that this sort of thing would be pretty controversial if it ever saw the light of day. Forgetting anyone outside the NE locker room for a moment, it always seemed BB inadvertently did a disservice *to his own players* to sanction anything of this sort, which after all really never had anything at all to do with them.

I felt actually felt pretty bad for Bruschi in that interview--he was a great player who always seemed to do things the right way, but he's clearly (and understandably) bothered and frustrated by the perception that the taping actually helped. FWIW I'm sure if Bruschi or the other NE players had ever been asked if they wanted this sort of "help", they would have roundly rejected it (because they would have understood they didn't need it!)

For me the ultimate question regarding "Spygate" isn't whether the championships are "tainted" (I've always thought this was untrue and overly simplistic). Rather, it is "Why even bother in the first place?" BB is a brilliant guy, but that decision was a genuine head-scratcher and unnecessarily opened NE's players to criticism that will follow them for a long time...all for an "advantage" that is negligible. I think this is what Harbaugh was trying to say, albeit in an all-thumbs sort of way--that he wants to avoid these sorts of things because the perception will stick even if the underlying facts are untrue.

Stealing signals is what a good coach does.

Don't you get it?

It's legal to steal signals. You put yourself at a disadvantage by not doing it.

An underlying premise of your post seems to be that stealing signals is illegal. It's not. That's just wrong.
 
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