Joe Montana: Niners should've taken Mac Jones

[Pats1971]

Joe Montana and others, including Brady in the earliest part of his career, played under a crueler, tougher, more career threatening brand of football than Tom and every other QB has played under in the last ten years or so as the league became more aware of head trauma and bodily injury.

If you can't understand this ^ or think it's a conspiracy to make Tom look bad or think it's wrong then you can't have a reasonably intelligent conversation about football because your Brady fandom makes you the equivalent of a shrieking teenage girl gushing over her favorite fan crush... and it's a complete waste of time talking to you.

Once again....show me. The statement was Brady is doing what he is doing because of the rules, yet those rules didnt help anyone else who could not do it. Nor did the rules hinder players from the past for playing a long time. If Brady and 10 other QB's were all in their 40's winning mvps and superbowls then yeah hey there is proof, if all QB's retired at 29 before 2000 then hey, we have proof, none of those things are true, so I think you are trying to argue something that was not even in the line of discussion which was Montana said Brady is doing this becuase of the rules, but somehow the rules didnt do this for anyone else in the same era as Brady. Not sure why this is so hard.


QB's still have head injuries, left injuries, Brady has had 7 surgeries. Who knows how many concussions. He played all year with a torn mcl. He has played with hand tendon damage. He has had several shoulder surgeries, he has had a broken foot. Broken ribs. Players get injuried, some handle it better than others. Thats human. Rules do not stop a Qb from getting hit legal or illegal. People die on the road every day in car accidents, we have stop signs, red lights, rules, laws, and yet people still die at a record pace.

 

[Pats1971]

Jones strengths are similar to Brady, Montana, and Manning, so it’s not surprising he prefers a QB that fits that mold. He was asked to be on a college football show and answered a question, I’m not sure why that is considered clamoring for relevance?

What are you referring to, who answered a question? Oh you mean about Jones? Yeah thats not the issue, Montana is probably right niners should have taken jones. We are referring to Montana saying Brady only played so long because he is under a set of rules that it seems does not apply to any other player.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I dont believe I ever said you did. I said its not hating Bill to say that he didnt know Brady would turn out the way he did and it was some genius move to take him in the 6th. Lots of things Bill should get credit for over the years of greatness, that was not one of them, that was luck.

You are telling me to go read a book. I have no ****ing idea what you think.

What is luck? Tom still there at 199? Who gives a ****. We were fortunate Asante was avail in the 4th round. We were fortunate Mayo was still at 10. We were fortunate Barmore was there at 36 or whatever. Who ****ing cares?

It's what you do with the player after the pick that really matters.

 

[Pats1971]

You are telling me to go read a book. I have no ****ing idea what you think.

What is luck? Tom still there at 199? Who gives a ****. We were fortunate Asante was avail in the 4th round. We were fortunate Mayo was still at 10. We were fortunate Barmore was there at 36 or whatever. Who f-ng cares?

It's what you do with the player after the pick that really matters.

I didnt say it was lucky that Brady was still there at 199, it was lucky that Brady was still there at 199 and happened to turn into what he did. That is not really the case, so if something never happens and it just happened to happen then. That is called luck. Bill said in his book they had no intention of taking a QB. **** Rehbein had Brady so highly ranked that when that pick came they felt they had no choice to take a flier...that was lucky that it turned out that way. I didnt say you had to care, I said it was lucky and people got upset. Not sure what you are even arguing then.
What you do with the player is based on what the player is. Again we have drafted 13 QB's since 2000 none of them turned into Brady, did Bill do something different? Or were they just not as good?

 

[SHOWTIME15]

No he was projected as the best QB at the spot he was drafted left on the board. Can you stop acting like it was some shock that Mac went to the pats? People were talking about Mac to the pats for the past 6 months.

Yes, but there was no guarantee Mac was going to be any good. Bill had to put some thought into it as if he was going to pick him in the first place. He could have gone a number of different directions with the pick, including drafting Kwitty Paye, Toney, Parsons (if he dropped), etc.

 

[Pats1971]

Yes, but there was no guarantee Mac was going to be any good. Bill had to put some thought into it as if he was going to pick him in the first place. He could have gone a number of different directions with the pick, including drafting Kwitty Paye, Toney, Parsons (if he dropped), etc.

There is no guarantee on any player. lol That is not some new genius thought. All players can turn out bad. Hell Jones can turn out bad after a few years, there is no guarantee, but I can tell you that ever pats fan, most of the pats media, and a lot of media outside said he was a fit here. It was not some amazing forethought. He seemed like a fit here, everyone saw this. Go read pre draft notes by fans. The only thing that was lucky was that he fell to the pats and nobody had to be traded up. He was not some unknown guy that nobody knew or even thought woudl go to the pats and Bill magically knew and grabbed him. The pats needed a QB...Mac was a good fit for what the pats do, he was on the board at 15...he was drafted. It was not miraculous.

Sometimes you have a no brainer, that was a no brainer. Saying well he could have been bad, well you can say that about any player drafted, but that does not mean picking them was not the correct and obvious move.

 

[amfootball]

You are telling me to go read a book. I have no ****ing idea what you think.

What is luck? Tom still there at 199? Who gives a ****. We were fortunate Asante was avail in the 4th round. We were fortunate Mayo was still at 10. We were fortunate Barmore was there at 36 or whatever. Who ****ing cares?

It's what you do with the player after the pick that really matters.

I would love to know the moment that Bill knew from a football standpoint that Brady was better than Bledsoe and then at what point from a football organizational standpoint did he tell Robert? I would find that timeline fascinating as well as what those conversations entailed.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I didnt say it was lucky that Brady was still there at 199, it was lucky that Brady was still there at 199 and happened to turn into what he did. That is not really the case, so if something never happens and it just happened to happen then. That is called luck. Bill said in his book they had no intention of taking a QB. **** Rehbein had Brady so highly ranked that when that pick came they felt they had no choice to take a flier...that was lucky that it turned out that way. I didnt say you had to care, I said it was lucky and people got upset. Not sure what you are even arguing then.
What you do with the player is based on what the player is. Again we have drafted 13 QB's since 2000 none of them turned into Brady, did Bill do something different? Or were they just not as good?

Brady clearly was a talented, generational player who - depending on the franchise - would have found some level of success in this league.

Brady was the most undervalued, mis-evaluated player in professional sports history.

With that said it's obvious he hadn't physically matured when he left Michigan. If he was 225 and chiseled maybe he would have gone earlier. Who knows

Everyone was wrong.

Bill provided an environment and structure for Tom's talent to be developed to its fullest potential.

Was Bill lucky Tom was there at 199? Sure.

Was it luck BB drafted him? Yes but they thought enough to draft him because they scouted him.

Was it luck "Tom" became "TB12 the GOAT"? yes and no. No one projected Tom to become what he is but BB's program - with Tom's commitment to being the best made it possible. That is not luck. That is grinding every day and being committed.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I would love to know the moment that Bill knew from a football standpoint that Brady was better than Bledsoe and then at what point from a football organizational standpoint did he tell Robert? I would find that timeline fascinating as well as what those conversations entailed.

It is my understanding it was Charlie Weis who told Bill Brady had passed Drew in the middle of the 2001 TC.

Bill agreed at the end of TC but was not ready to play him ahead of Drew.

Once Tom won the SB, Bill told Kraft they should dump Drew and pay Tom.

Bill now had the street cred and the evidence Bob needed to agree.

That made the conversation easy.

 

[Kasmir]

Brady clearly was a talented, generational player who - depending on the franchise - would have found some level of success in this league.

Brady was the most undervalued, mis-evaluated player in professional sports history.

With that said it's obvious he hadn't physically matured when he left Michigan. If he was 225 and chiseled maybe he would have gone earlier. Who knows

Everyone was wrong.

Bill provided an environment and structure for Tom's talent to be developed to its fullest potential.

Was Bill lucky Tom was there at 199? Sure.

Was it luck BB drafted him? Yes but they thought enough to draft him because they scouted him.

Was it luck "Tom" became "TB12 the GOAT"? yes and no. No one projected Tom to become what he is but BB's program - with Tom's commitment to being the best made it possible. That is not luck. That is grinding every day and being committed.

Picking Brady in the 1st round of 2001 would have been a huge "reach" based on what was known about him then -- and of course unnecessary.

Even after 2000 training camp, Brady was still the #4 QB on the team. More impressive than drafting him in the 6th round was keeping him as an unprecedented 4th QB.

Obviously, going with Brady over Drew and staying with him when Drew came back is much to BB's credit.

And almost no one credits Bill with going for the score with Tom at the end of the 2001 Superbowl. That was a controversial coaching decision, as John Madden indicated at the time.

While I agree that drafting Brady in the 6th round was mostly luck, all those other decisions were crucial ones made by BB.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Picking Brady in the 1st round of 2001 would have been a huge "reach" based on what was known about him then.

Even after 2000 training camp, Brady was still the #4 QB on the team. More impressive than drafting him in the 6th round was keeping him as an unprecedented 4th QB.

Obviously, going with Brady over Drew and staying with him when Drew came back is much to BB's credit.

And almost no one credits Bill with going for the score with Tom at the end of the 2001 Superbowl. That was a controversial coaching decision, as John Madden indicated at the time.

While I agree that drafting Brady in the 6th round was mostly luck, all those other decisions were crucial ones made by BB.

No question. It's obvious NFL scouts did a bad job of..

Projecting he would fill out his frame
Projecting his arm strength would improve
Projecting he could improve his mobility
Properly evaluating his work-ethic and commitment to his craft (physique notwithstanding)
Properly evaluating his ability to raise his game under pressure (Which blows my mind. Did they not watch the Orange Bowl?)
Properly evaluating his accuracy, pocket awarenesss and anticipation
Properly evaluating his inhuman in-game decision making and football IQ.

Even if they did all those things, he'd still be a 3rd rounder-ish

 

[borg]

No question. It's obvious NFL scouts did a bad job of..

Projecting he would fill out his frame
Projecting his arm strength would improve
Projecting he could improve his mobility
Properly evaluating his work-ethic and commitment to his craft (physique notwithstanding)
Properly evaluating his ability to raise his game under pressure (Which blows my mind. Did they not watch the Orange Bowl?)
Properly evaluating his accuracy, pocket awarenesss and anticipation
Properly evaluating his inhuman in-game decision making and football IQ.

Even if they did all those things, he'd still be a 3rd rounder-ish

Projecting he would link up with a glute masseuse who was under FDA scrutiny

 

[Hyped]

It's kinda like that scene in Everyone's All American when an old Gavin Grey walks out on the field and he thinks the crowd is cheering for him but instead it was for the present day LSU team coming out of the tunnel.

Great movie that deserves a re-watch....even with Goodman's stupid "kitty is pissing" joke...

Dennis Quaid has been doing tons of TV shows the last few years: "Art of More", "Fortitude", "Goliath", and etc...to name a few... Not all of them have been good performances and I think Randy Quaid is more famous these days....

 

[RobertWeathers]

Projecting he would link up with a glute masseuse who was under FDA scrutiny

Gawd lol

 

[RobertWeathers]

Great movie that deserves a re-watch....even with Goodman's stupid "kitty is pissing" joke...

Dennis Quaid has been doing tons of TV shows the last few years: "Art of More", "Fortitude", "Goliath", and etc...to name a few... Not all of them have been good performances and I think Randy Quaid is more famous these days....

Yea it's an ok movie. Little slow in parts.

Best part is Steve Nelson blowing up Dennis Quaid.

BTW- Where is Cousin Eddie these days? Jail?

 

[Hyped]

No question. It's obvious NFL scouts did a bad job of..

Projecting he would fill out his frame
Projecting his arm strength would improve
Projecting he could improve his mobility
Properly evaluating his work-ethic and commitment to his craft (physique notwithstanding)
Properly evaluating his ability to raise his game under pressure (Which blows my mind. Did they not watch the Orange Bowl?)
Properly evaluating his accuracy, pocket awarenesss and anticipation
Properly evaluating his inhuman in-game decision making and football IQ.

Even if they did all those things, he'd still be a 3rd rounder-ish

To be fair the BOLDED wasn't something we saw when Brady was in his first 2-3 years. He was still feeling it out....

 

[Hyped]

Yea it's an ok movie. Little slow in parts.

Best part is Steve Nelson blowing up Dennis Quaid.

BTW- Where is Cousin Eddie these days? Jail?

"Welcome to the NFL"!

Cousin Eddie hasn't done anything since 2018 per his filmography on wiki...just looked it up...and he looks like a hermit these days...

 

[RobertWeathers]

To be fair the BOLDED wasn't something we saw when Brady was in his first 2-3 years. He was still feeling it out....

Agree. Some players don't have it or never get it

Tom had the capacity. Just needed time to develop.

 

[Kasmir]

Gawd lol

Nice side effect of the snake oil is that Brady is immune to cancer and Covid. Might be immortal too.

 

[RobertWeathers]

"Welcome to the NFL"!

Cousin Eddie hasn't done anything since 2018 per his filmography on wiki...just looked it up...and he looks like a hermit these days...

I know he was in trouble with the law a few years ago. Went to Canada to avoid arrest or something. Seemed like a mental illness issue. Big drinker too. Too much booze from the special Wally World egg nog glasses.