Is Trey Lance worth Patriots to trade up to get?

[Ring 6]

amen brother! Tape does not lie!

No it doesn’t and fields tape is excellent.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

No it doesn’t and fields tape is excellent.

so was Dwayne Haskins tape!

one read qb’s have a short career!

 

[upstater1]

Your crazy. You obviously haven’t watched film. He has good and more than enough arm strength. Fields is too slow to process the game which will be faster. We will see whose right in a couple of years. Just hope the pats stay away from Fields.

I've watched film. He has a weak arm.

 

[Ring 6]

so was Dwayne Haskins tape!

one read qb’s have a short career!

Fields is not a one read qb. Fields and Haskins are nowhere near the same guy and played in different systems.
I don’t think you understand what good tape means.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Fields is not a one read qb. Fields and Haskins are nowhere near the same guy and played in different systems.
I dint think you understand what good tale means.

maybe we just see different things when looking at his tape.

the bottom line is as long as he does not get drafted by us, that is a win!

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Nice Cousin,
Good retort. I had banana sour cream pancakes this morning. A little better than silver dollar size, with maple ayrup. OJ and a mug of coffee that still sits in front of me.
It has nothing to do with the OSU as a school.
Vrabel was a great player for us. Terry Glenn was Drafted by us in the first round who was decent but a nut case. They have Devin Smith on the squad now.
It's history. Call it luck or not through many different coaching stalls. The best OSU QB we actually had, was Tom Tupa who was our punter.
I blame this on Woody Hayes mentality. Three yards up the middle and a cloud of dust. That is what OSU is noted for,
If you hate Cam Fields is just an updated version and Cam was an Auburn product.
I could be all wet about Fields but the odds are stacked against him.
Fields has 260 rushing attempts at OSU. Mac Jones has 54. Do you see where I am going with this.

Are you ready for the next stat.
Cam Newton . like Fields served two college programs. Guess what his rushing attempts were? ..............264.
So we might already have Fields on our roster, albeit a former NFL MVP who may or may not have shoulder issues.

Adversity: Another item that is alarming to me is the fact that Fields got his feelings hurt in Georgia by some idiot who called him a racial slur. Point one is how many of his African American teammates at Georgia use the same slur and point two is how many stadiums that Fields will play in will he hear those same slurs from certain numbskulls in the stands because you can get to him. How many players will he hear that from to get under his skin
I hope it doesn't happen.

Jones and Wilson are gone, I might rather have Lance than Fileds. He seems more mature.

I have pondered this back and forth. Yes it might be the best opportunity to move for a supposed top QB in the rich QB class.Here is the irony. Experts have said that if Darnold was in this QB class, he would be rated as the #3 QB.......??????? The Jets gave him away BUT Wilson was the better QB so I guess it mabe sense and he was Drafted by the old regime.

After Lawrence and Wilson I have no confidence to trade a lot of capital for a definite maybe at QB. I would rather pick up a blue chipper like a Parsons or Collins and wait on a QB.

Here is the DW Toys quick rating system:
DRAFT QB RATINGS:
EIGHT QB'S IN 2021 DRAFT-

SIZE; Trask, Lawrence, Mond, Lance, Fields, Jones, Mills. Wilson
ARM;Wilson, Lawrence, Mond, Fields, Lance, Mills, Jones. Trask
QUICK RELEASE:Lawrence, Jones, Wilson. Mills, Trask, Mond, Lance, Fields
COMPETING YEARS" Lawrence, Mond, Trask, Wilson, Fields, Jones, , Mills, Lance
DECISION ABILITY:Lawrence, Lance, Jones, Wilson,Trask, Mills, Fields, Mond
MATURITY:Lawrence, Jones, Mills, Trask, Mond, Lance, Fields, Wilson
SPEED: Fields, Lance, Mills, Lawrence, Wilson, Mond, Jones, Trask
TD'S TO INT RATIO:Lance, Jones, Trask, Fields, Lawrence. Mills, Wilson, Mond
TEAM SUCCESS;Lawrence, Jones, Fields, Lance, Trask. Wilson, Mills, Mond
INJURY ISSUES WORST TO LEAST:Jones, Lance, Trask, Mond, Fields, Lawrence, Wilson, Mills

8 being the highest points:
Lawrence=58
Wilson=38
Fields=42
Lance=47
Jones=54
Trask=45
Mills=32
Mond=37
Take it for what's it's worth

DW Toys

Cuz ...

Than again I think of Justin Fields and as much as everyone tries to convince me, there has NEVER been an Ohio State QB that has been successful

I suppose I would have to question Lawrence if he was an OSU QB.

 

[Ring 6]

maybe we just see different things when looking at his tape.

the bottom line is as long as he does not get drafted by us, that is a win!

Absolutely not, he should be our #1 target.

 

[Ring 6]

Cuz ...

Than again I think of Justin Fields and as much as everyone tries to convince me, there has NEVER been an Ohio State QB that has been successful

I suppose I would have to question Lawrence if he was an OSU QB.

He already said yes to that

 

[captain stone]

"What does Bill know that I don't?" *Panics, chooses a different guy*

Patriots Draft HQ:

Yeah we wish...

 

[Rob0729]

Pat Mahomes, Justin Herbert, Deshaun Watson, Baker Mayfield, Joe Burrow, Kyler Murray, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson.

That's 8 who are Pro Bowl worthy QBs.

And Jared Goff has even gone to a Pro Bowl too.

What are you looking for? A Hall of Famer?

When you consider that the average contract for a player like Herbert is $5m for the first 5 years (until he restructures, hopefully, deserves to extend) then you see the value.

If I am giving up three first round picks, yeah I want damn close to HOF worthy. And you overvalue a lot of these QBs. Most of these guys have had one good to great year and not much else.

Mayfield isn’t Pro Bowl ready. He finally had one good, not great year in three.

Murray is a good QB, but about four or five QBs in the NFC would have to bow out of the Pro Bowl for him to be considered.

Josh Allen finally had a great year after sucking his first two years.

Burrow wasn’t remotely close to Pro Bowl worthy last year.

Call me when they are consistent.

 

[Rob0729]

I would. People overvalue draft picks

Sorry I would rather have three solid players, possibly three Pro Bowl level or better players than one good and not great QB. I’d rather trade a second for Garoppolo who is a good, not great QB and keep the three first rounders.

 

[captain stone]

Depends where he ends up.

I hope Fields ends up with the J-E-T-E...that would be so GeeNo Smith of them...

 

[upstater1]

If I am giving up three first round picks, yeah I want damn close to HOF worthy. And you overvalue a lot of these QBs. Most of these guys have had one great year and not much else. Call me when they are consistent.

Who am I overvaluing? I mean, I would give up 3 first round picks in an instant for Justin Herbert.

Let's assume the Patriots don't improve and we only pick in this range for the next 3 years. In Belichick's Patriots history, the last 3 guys he took in this range are Ty Warren, Jerod Mayo and Nate Solder. Good players, but not All Pros, and not HOFs, and I'd argue all 3 are easily replaceable, since they were actually replaced.

In the best case scenario, Belichick picks 3 guys like this with the next 3 first rounders.

You wouldn't give this up for Herbert?

 

[Rob0729]

Who am I overvaluing? I mean, I would give up 3 first round picks in an instant for Justin Herbert.

Let's assume the Patriots don't improve and we only pick in this range for the next 3 years. In Belichick's Patriots history, the last 3 guys he took in this range are Ty Warren, Jerod Mayo and Nate Solder. Good players, but not All Pros, and not HOFs, and I'd argue all 3 are easily replaceable, since they were actually replaced.

In the best case scenario, Belichick picks 3 guys like this with the next 3 first rounders.

You wouldn't give this up for Herbert?

Who said that the Pats would get Justin Herbert if they gave up three first round picks?

Daniel Jones was selected with the same pick Herbert went one year earlier. Would you give up three first round picks for Daniel Jones? Because you are more likely to get a QB the quality of Jones than Herbert if you trade up.

And Herbert was the second QB taken last year. The Pats would be trading up for the fourth or fifth one taken. That is a big difference.

And even then, the second QB taken in the draft isn’t a guarantee. You talk about the last five years. In the last five years, the second QB taken include Jones, Sam Darnold, and Carson Wentz. Two of those QBs were traded away this offseason.

 

[Rob0729]

Again, I said that if the Pats love either Lance or Fields and truly believe they are a franchise QB in the making, then I don't have a problem with them trading up. I do have a problem with them trading up just to get a QB even if they don't absolutely love the guy they would be selecting. But I doubt they are in love with either guy because both are considered projects that would need to sit for a year or two.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

All you fields lovers go watch the clips on YouTube. Justin Fields vs northwestern 2020 big 10 championship. At the 53 mark of the video he goes short instead of waiting and he had a big play on the right side. At 9:56 mark had an open receiver and went the other way. The guy stinks .

You really think people haven't watched the Northwestern game? He had like 4-5 bad plays. I'm not getting anything from this post with all due respect. Again he had a few bad plays, so what?

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Again, I said that if the Pats love either Lance or Fields and truly believe they are a franchise QB in the making, then I don't have a problem with them trading up. I do have a problem with them trading up just to get a QB even if they don't absolutely love the guy they would be selecting. But I doubt they are in love with either guy because both are considered projects that would need to sit for a year or two.

You're all over the place.

You really think Bill is trading up for any player he doesn't love?

Nobody is sitting either guy for two years, not happening. Lance might sit a year depending on where he goes. Fields is playing right away. He would beat out Newton next week.

 

[Lansdowne]

If I am giving up three first round picks, yeah I want damn close to HOF worthy. And you overvalue a lot of these QBs. Most of these guys have had one good to great year and not much else.

Mayfield isn’t Pro Bowl ready. He finally had one good, not great year in three.

Murray is a good QB, but about four or five QBs in the NFC would have to bow out of the Pro Bowl for him to be considered.

Josh Allen finally had a great year after sucking his first two years.

Burrow wasn’t remotely close to Pro Bowl worthy last year.

Call me when they are consistent.

Murray was selected as a Pro Bowler this past December, without the need of going in as an alternate since the game itself wasn’t being played so nobody bowed out. And he has room to get better as he enters his age 24 season.

Ignoring that Burrow was in his rookie year and how rare it is for rookie QB’s to get selected to the Pro Bowl, he was on pace for a 4,300 yards, 21 TD, 8 INT season until a left knee injury ended his season six games early. Not enough for a Pro Bowl over Mahomes, Allen, or Watson, and he wasn’t even the best rookie QB (Herbert already looks like a stud) but I think you’re underselling his performance. If Burrow doesn’t get in any time soon it’s likely because the AFC is stacked at QB and that’s before we see who goes where in this draft. Same goes for Mayfield who isn’t as good a QB as Burrow but in fairness he’s on his fourth head coach in three seasons and has shown improvement under Stefanski.

Speaking of Herbert, let’s all thank our lucky stars the Dolphins picked Tua instead. Allen already looks like he’s going to be a problem in this division, and we’ll see what Wilson looks like for the Jets. Would’ve been ridiculous if Herbert in Miami was added to that equation.

 

[Rob0729]

You're all over the place.

You really think Bill is trading up for any player he doesn't love?

Nobody is sitting either guy for two years, not happening. Lance might sit a year depending on where he goes. Fields is playing right away. He would beat out Newton next week.

Not all over the place at all. Read post #186 and you will see I have been consistent. People are arguing to trade three first round picks to trade up because it is worth the risk because is so important to get a QB that it is worth the gamble. That is different than trading up to get a player that you think is a transformational player. Either you absolute love the player or don’t trade. You don’t trade up just to get a QB because you are more likely to get a franchise QB high in the draft than later on.

And you never know how long players will sit. But it is an almost guaranteed Lance and Fields would sit their first year with the Pats. Neither are NFL read and the Pats have one of the more complicated offenses in the league. It is doubtful that either would see the field their first year in New England.

 

[Rob0729]

Murray was selected as a Pro Bowler this past December, without the need of going in as an alternate since the game itself wasn’t being played so nobody bowed out. And he has room to get better as he enters his age 24 season.

Ignoring that Burrow was in his rookie year and how rare it is for rookie QB’s to get selected to the Pro Bowl, he was on pace for a 4,300 yards, 21 TD, 8 INT season until a left knee injury ended his season six games early. Not enough for a Pro Bowl over Mahomes, Allen, or Watson, and he wasn’t even the best rookie QB (Herbert already looks like a stud) but I think you’re underselling his performance. If Burrow doesn’t get in any time soon it’s likely because the AFC is stacked at QB and that’s before we see who goes where in this draft. Same goes for Mayfield who isn’t as good a QB as Burrow but in fairness he’s on his fourth head coach in three seasons and has shown improvement under Stefanski.

Speaking of Herbert, let’s all thank our lucky stars the Dolphins picked Tua instead. Allen already looks like he’s going to be a problem in this division, and we’ll see what Wilson looks like for the Jets. Would’ve been ridiculous if Herbert in Miami was added to that equation.

I am not ignoring anything. Teams don’t have a book on Burrows. He looks promising but that doesn’t make him Pro Bowl worthy yet. And the guy had some really good games and some awful games. He was really inconsistent which is expected from a rookie.

I forgot that Murray made it to the Pro Bowl as the second alternate, but he wasn’t better than Brady who wasn’t selected and he benefitted from the fact that Prescott was out all season who would have contended for that third spot. And I shouldn’t have said four or five people would have dropped out because that would put him near the bottom of the NFC. There are just 4 or so QBs better than him in the NFC.

But you are talking one year. Last year skews the last five year argument has been great for drafting in the first round QBs that upstarter was arguing. 2020 was a great year for QBs. In 2019, you had Murray at #1 followed by Jones, Haskins, and Lock. 2018 had Mayfield who has been disappointing thus far but finally improving, Sam Darnold, Josh Allen who had a great year last year after two disappointing ones and we will have to see if last year was who he is or an aberration, and Josh Rosen. 2016 had Goff and Wentz who are both disappointments.