Is This Defense As Good As 2017?

[BTTA]

CB is the most fun part to play with here. It is very possible for:

• JC Jackson to be this year's Butler, and with more physical capability
• Rowe to have his best year ever, staying healthy and with last year under his belt
• Gilmore to give a full year of excellence
• All of the Jones' to take a step forward and earn some playing time in special packages (although keeping just one, not to say two, on the game day would be a challenge)

Yeah, of course, mediocrity is possible, too, but what's the point of speculating on that?

 

[Snooky97]

Loosing HT last year destroyed us massively more than I imagined it would of done.

Personally I think we’ve improved in all aspects or stayed same. D-Line is a huge improvement. Rivers, Clayborn, flowers, Wise, Butler, Shelton, Brown, Guy. That’s a pretty formidable D-Line.

Having HT back alongside KVN, and Bentley (rookie) looks solid. I’d still like to have maybe more speed there but Bentley looks good so far!

CB - loosing Butler is a loss, but is it going to be a massive loss? I’m not sure he was hot and cold last year.

Gilmore I expect to be Better this year after having a year in the system. Rowe I hope stays healthy as when he is he’s a good corner, better than people give him credit for. I think the Super Bowl against Atlanta he played very well.

No idea who will be in the slot.. JJ, Jones, J-Mac, rookies?!?

Safety- No change. Solid and dependable.

 

[mgteich]

CORNER
Gilmore is back as our #1 corner.
===============
We need to replace Butler's 2017 production.
================
Rowe is back healthy.
J Jones may be back healthy.
C Jones is back healthy.
Dawson has been added and should be our backup nickel back.
======

McCourty or Jackson could make the 53 and contribute or not.

 

[captain stone]

DT - Improved; Shelton replaces Branch/RJF.

DE - Improved; Clayborn & Rivers replace Marsh/Lee, though I'd still take Harrison (if he didn't retire) over Davis/Grissom.

ILB - Improved; Hightower & Bentley replace Roberts (please) & Harris.

OLB - Not improved; still a complete Feckin Disaster, the Worst of Any of the legit SB contenders.

CB - Not improved until somebody shows themselves worthy of replacing Butler.

Safety - Not improved; Chung & DMac are one year older & slower, with Zero developmental replacements in the building, and Harmon is who he is: a gravy-trainer.

Overall - Slight improvement (how could it not?), could be better if a solid #2 CB emerges.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Lets be careful not to build up Butler as being a upper tier CB in 2017.

If 2016 Butler played that way in 2017 they would have been in a better position to win the Super Bowl.

D Line- Improved
Edge- Improved
LBs- Improved b/c of Hightower
CBs- Same as Malcolm was not as good as he was in 2017 and better depth at the position now.
Safeties- Same.

 

[mgteich]

Hightower can play outside, with Van Noy and Bentley inside. Also, we play a front SIX, not seven. Our EDGE players DE/OLB are indeed better than in 2017. Do you disagree?

How big a bar is Butler's 2017 play?

We have a fine set of three safeties,. How many of the top teams have FOUR? And yes, I would be fine with a 4th, developmental, young safety. Of course, he would likely be inactive. That is NOT Belichick's way. When one of our safeties needs to be replaced, he will be. Until then, we have McCourty and Chung, with Harmon as the backup. With better play upfront, the safeties should not be as involved in the running game.

As an aside, whether Roberts makes the team doesn't depend on Bentley. Bentley is a lock at this point. Who are the "last" linebacker or two? Is it Sam? Grisby? Flowers? Roberts?

DT - Improved; Shelton replaces Branch/RJF.

DE - Improved; Clayborn & Rivers replace Marsh/Lee, though I'd still take Harrison (if he didn't retire) over Davis/Grissom.

ILB - Improved; Hightower & Bentley replace Roberts (please) & Harris.

OLB - Not improved; still a complete Feckin Disaster, thung safet

CB - Not improved until somebody shows themselves worthy of replacing Butler.

Safety - Not improved; Chung & DMac are one year older & slower, with Zero developmental replacements in the building, and Harmon is who he is: a gravy-trainer.

Overall - Slight improvement (how could it not?), could be better if a solid #2 CB emerges.

 

[captain stone]

Hightower can play outside, with Van Noy and Bentley inside. Also, we play a front SIX, not seven. Our EDGE players DE/OLB are indeed better than in 2017. Do you disagree?

I separate DE from OLB, so DE has improved while OLB has not, especially if Marquis Flowers & Christian Sam are not kept.

How big a bar is Butler's 2017 play?

Big enough that nobody other than Gilmore has reached it, yet.

We have a fine set of three safeties,. How many of the top teams have FOUR? And yes, I would be fine with a 4th, developmental, young safety. Of course, he would likely be inactive. That is NOT Belichick's way. When one of our safeties needs to be replaced, he will be. Until then, we have McCourty and Chung, with Harmon as the backup. With better play upfront, the safeties should not be as involved in the running game.

Fair points.

As an aside, whether Roberts makes the team doesn't depend on Bentley. Bentley is a lock at this point. Who are the "last" linebacker or two? Is it Sam? Grisby? Flowers? Roberts?

Of those, I would keep Sam & MFlowers because of their superior size, instincts, athleticism & experience in space.

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

I was hoping sam could be a guy who could be on the outside and cover. He did that at ASU. He might not even make the team.

 

[Hyped]

My thoughts:

DT - Upgrade with Shelton as well as depth compared to last year.

DE - Upgrade with depth with Rivers back in the fold and Davis too (if he makes the team).

LB - Massive upgrade with Hightower returning and a nice find in Bentley who I am almost sure will make the team and possibly leap frog Elandon Roberts. Also, if KVN remains healthy all season...that is also a bonus. We missed him a bit last year.

CB - We lost Butler, but I like Rowe's size out there...gives us more options. Also, we are getting Jonathan Jones back...we missed him last year, IMO. Not to mention all the young pups in Dawson, Jackson, Crossen, and/or Lewis...and maybe even Cyrus Jones...1-2 of these guys will make the team. Not sure if J.McCourty is an upgrade of any kind.

S - Same trio....plus Richards it seems...(Reiss this AM pointed out that Richards is our punt protector).

So, that's an upgrade at DT, DE, & LB. Same at S. CB could go either way...but we have Gilmore shutting down one side of the field at least. CB weakness can be masked by the pass rush which should be better.

 

[TheRainMaker]

DT - Improved; Shelton replaces Branch/RJF.

DE - Improved; Clayborn & Rivers replace Marsh/Lee, though I'd still take Harrison (if he didn't retire) over Davis/Grissom.

ILB - Improved; Hightower & Bentley replace Roberts (please) & Harris.

OLB - Not improved; still a complete Feckin Disaster, the Worst of Any of the legit SB contenders.

CB - Not improved until somebody shows themselves worthy of replacing Butler.

Safety - Not improved; Chung & DMac are one year older & slower, with Zero developmental replacements in the building, and Harmon is who he is: a gravy-trainer.

Overall - Slight improvement (how could it not?), could be better if a solid #2 CB emerges.

Hightower should be an outside LB. Hopefully BB surprises us all and Bentley starts in the middle opening day with Hightower on the outside. I like seeing Hightower rush the QB on third downs. Looks like he’s been doing that a lot this preseason. A combo him, Flowers, Rivers, Wise, Butler and Clayborne on passing downs could be pretty solid. I think Rivers is going to be the star of this unit and lead the team in sacks.

CB #2 could be a revolving door but Rowe is winning by default. I’m kind of disappointed in Dawson not making any noise. They need to stay healthy or the safeties will get exposed.

While Harmon isn’t best player ever, it seems like all he does is get interceptions when games are on the line.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

To sum it all up: Injuries are everything...

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

Hightower should be an outside LB. Hopefully BB surprises us all and Bentley starts in the middle opening day with Hightower on the outside. I like seeing Hightower rush the QB on third downs. Looks like he’s been doing that a lot this preseason. A combo him, Flowers, Rivers, Wise, Butler and Clayborne on passing downs could be pretty solid. I think Rivers is going to be the star of this unit and lead the team in sacks.

CB #2 could be a revolving door but Rowe is winning by default. I’m kind of disappointed in Dawson not making any noise. They need to stay healthy or the safeties will get exposed.

While Harmon isn’t best player ever, it seems like all he does is get interceptions when games are on the line.

Rowe has played well this preseason. We will see.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Exclusive: Q&A With Patriots Defensive Tackle Adam Butler | CLNS Media

Nice interview with Butler. He is one of my main reasons for optimism regarding the defense.

 

[RobertWeathers]

To sum it all up: Injuries are everything...

An injury to Brady would be CATostophic

 

[RobertWeathers]

Exclusive: Q&A With Patriots Defensive Tackle Adam Butler | CLNS Media

Nice interview with Butler. He is one of my main reasons for optimism regarding the defense.

One of the best football- centric, detailed interviews with an NEP player I have ever read.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Hightower should be an outside LB. Hopefully BB surprises us all and Bentley starts in the middle opening day with Hightower on the outside. I like seeing Hightower rush the QB on third downs. Looks like he’s been doing that a lot this preseason. A combo him, Flowers, Rivers, Wise, Butler and Clayborne on passing downs could be pretty solid. I think Rivers is going to be the star of this unit and lead the team in sacks.

CB #2 could be a revolving door but Rowe is winning by default. I’m kind of disappointed in Dawson not making any noise. They need to stay healthy or the safeties will get exposed.

While Harmon isn’t best player ever, it seems like all he does is get interceptions when games are on the line.

I can live with that.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I was hoping sam could be a guy who could be on the outside and cover. He did that at ASU. He might not even make the team.

Considering he was the culprit holding on the Jones 27yd run he isn't helping himself on ST either.

 

[Tony2046]

???
Even if we grant improvement at DT as a given, which it really isn't until/unless Shelton proves himself to be better than Branch 2017 (not a high hurdle to leap, certainly):

• Corner's down until proven otherwise, due to the loss of Butler
  
• Safety's possibly down due to aging, and is almost certainly not upgraded
  
• Linebacker's an unknown, and dependent upon both health and a low-round rookie draftee

Can you quit playing your gong during our wet dreams?

 

[Deus Irae]

Can you quit playing your gong during our wet dreams?

It shouldn't be too much to expect a modicum of sanity in these threads.

 

[Ring 6]

Hightower should be an outside LB. Hopefully BB surprises us all and Bentley starts in the middle opening day with Hightower on the outside. I like seeing Hightower rush the QB on third downs. Looks like he’s been doing that a lot this preseason. A combo him, Flowers, Rivers, Wise, Butler and Clayborne on passing downs could be pretty solid. I think Rivers is going to be the star of this unit and lead the team in sacks.

CB #2 could be a revolving door but Rowe is winning by default. I’m kind of disappointed in Dawson not making any noise. They need to stay healthy or the safeties will get exposed.

While Harmon isn’t best player ever, it seems like all he does is get interceptions when games are on the line.

Hightower is both an inside and outside lb depending upon personnel, the offensive formation, down and distance and the call.
Our base is a 4-2-5 so really they aren’t inside or outside LBs they are just LBs.

I love Hightower as a pass rusher but he is so versatile I think it’s better to have 2 other DEs and use him as a blitzer or in coverage.
Making him a DE exclusively on 3rd dorms wastes his skills.

Rowe has won the cb2 by having a great preseason not by default. He has been very good since he got here when he is healthy.
The problem is he has missed time and also played banged up. If he stays healthy he will be a huge plus at corner.