Is the NFL doing the right thing????

[PatsWickedPissah]

Don't you feel ashamed evey time you have boiled lobster at home?

Me, I don't eat 'bugs'. But my 1st wife does.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Name them, please. He had a civil suit about STDs. There was some stuff about a water botle, but that is not an incident with the law. He was not detained, was not even brought in for questioning, never mind being charged with anything. Nothing came of it. He gave the finger to fans. Again, not smart but not a bruish with the law.

All dumb things, for sure, but so far he has not been involved with the law at all, never mind multiple offenses. If you have other information, give us what he has been charged with, where and when.

Also, you keep saying he lied to the Commissioner. When was this? As far as I know, he has only been called to the Commissioner's Office once, and that was about being the spokesperson for the VT shootings. The Commissioner has never called him in to question him about dog fighting. Never.

If you are aware of a private converstation between you, the Commissioner and Vick, please, by all means, give us the details.

It's been like 2 days. How long after the Las Vegas incident was Pacman suspended?

The problem is that the Commissioner doesn't have a double standard. YOU DO. You want the Commissioner act immediately before all the facts are in with Vick, whereas the Commissioner took weeks to address the Pacman and Henry incidents, carefully weighing evidence and interviewing.

I don't know why you think Vick should be treated differently than Pacman or Henry or Johnson. You ought to ask yourself that question.

Just an FYI space - he was called in to talk to the commissioner the day before the draft - not to ask him how he felt about VA Tech but to ask him if the league should be concerned about the allegations being leveled against him. This was widely reported, including by Adam Schefter of NFLN who reported that Vick assured the commissioner he had no involvement in any dog fighting ring. That was apparently just days after testing dogs at the Surry house and executing those who didn't pass muster according to the indictment.

 

[Pats726]

Name them, please. He had a civil suit about STDs. There was some stuff about a water botle, but that is not an incident with the law. He was not detained, was not even brought in for questioning, never mind being charged with anything. Nothing came of it. He gave the finger to fans. Again, not smart but not a bruish with the law.

All dumb things, for sure, but so far he has not been involved with the law at all, never mind multiple offenses. If you have other information, give us what he has been charged with, where and when.

Also, you keep saying he lied to the Commissioner. When was this? As far as I know, he has only been called to the Commissioner's Office once, and that was about being the spokesperson for the VT shootings. The Commissioner has never called him in to question him about dog fighting. Never.

If you are aware of a private converstation between you, the Commissioner and Vick, please, by all means, give us the details.

It's been like 2 days. How long after the Las Vegas incident was Pacman suspended?

The problem is that the Commissioner doesn't have a double standard. YOU DO. You want the Commissioner act immediately before all the facts are in with Vick, whereas the Commissioner took weeks to address the Pacman and Henry incidents, carefully weighing evidence and interviewing.

I don't know why you think Vick should be treated differently than Pacman or Henry or Johnson. You ought to ask yourself that question.

My friend...YOU need to read the indictment..there are MORE than a dozen allegations in to his bevavior over a series of years. It ISN't just one incident it's a total and complete package of MANY activities. YOU may see it as ONE particular crime..but if you look at the seriousness of it and see what is alleged it's a strong of incidents. To compare his heinous behavior with anything Pacman or Tank has done misses the severity and depth of all he has done. The FACTS are that were dogs both dead and alibe found on his property. It is a FACT that dog fighting went on at his house. It is a FACT that all kinds of dog fighting paraphnalia was found as well. If you wish to defend that, be my guest. If Goodell had guts, Vick would be suspended PENDING an NFL investigation. He is VERY much being treated differentally..maybe because he's a star; remember Pacman was suspended BEFORE his trial...why not Vick???

 

[Pats726]

The league castigated Ron Mexico for puting himself in a position to be indicted... "We are disappointed that Michael Vick has put himself in a position where a federal grand jury has returned an indictment against him. We will continue to closely monitor developments in this case, and to cooperate with law enforcement authorities. The activities alleged are cruel, degrading and illegal." That's a strong statement.

As to the league investigating, I'd say that the Feds are better trained to 'investigate' than the NFL. Let them do their job; they've done well so far.

Goodell has shown leadership by not succumbing to the emotional lynch mob mentatity by taking precipitous currently popular actions that could cause serious league labor problems, set unwanted precedents (like suspending future indicted, yet innocent players & coaches) and complicate the legal process in unforseen ways.

That is a BIT stronger than the pablam that was handed out yesterday...when they basically said they would not suspend him and letlegal action be taken. How has Goodell shown ANY leadership?? Why is he NOT talking to the press and and making the statement himself?? Why is he not answering questions on this?? I do think he is getting it a bit better than yesterday, but leadership?? I do not think so..let's see how this plays out and how the public will react as Vick actually is on the field.

 

[Pats726]

Well, some believe that taking a reactionary stance would be strength. I happen to believe it would be weakness. We can disagree on this.

I can understand why he will not suspend him..BUT at least make a statement and go out to the press and TALK about it. I would THINK considering the seriousness of it that if he had a press conference and spoke about it, it would be a heck of a lot better than these press statements. I still think that the NFL should NEVER have said they will NOT suspend Vick until after the trial. That was more like yesterday's statement...somewhat modified in today's statement. Why do I see that as important?? If you take it off the table and are forced to do something at a later date it looks weak..like you were FORCED into something that you had already said you would NOT do. With the volatility of situation, by leaving THAT as a possibility, you NEVER look like it is forced..NEVER have to CHANGE a position. It was always there and that the league was investigating. Maybe a minor point, but I think it would have been better.

Actually, I know that the Commisioner is outraged by the developments and will be making a decision later (after the trial). I expect you and the vast majority of people know it, too, since he's said the second part and most everyone is outraged at the incidents described in the indictment if, indeed, they did happen. The statement from the NFL office which I just read does exactly what you want in saying this, so perhaps you now agree that this has been accomplished.

What I do NOT like what Goodell is doing is that he's waiting till AFTER the trial. NOT the case for Pacman..I wonder why?? What he has opened the League to is a LOT of bad publicity and a circus atmosphere anywhere teh Falcons are playing. I do NOT think that helps the league in any way at all. Yes, I like the statement..today's statement a BIT better...it IS stronger in its condenmation, but I still would like to see him at a press conference talking about it.

Not in my mind. People are in such a rush to judge. Why? What's so important that we can't wait a while to express an opinion (and, after all, that's all the Commissioner would be doing is expressing an opinion since the agreed upon policy reserves judgment in this instance until after a verdict). I'm reminded of my umpire training. Don't rush to make the call; the call will still be there in a couple of seconds and the runner will still be out/safe regardless of exactly when the call is made. Just take it easy.

We''ll see how the NFL is seen in the eyes of the public as Vick goes and plays and how and what happens...and how the NFL is perceived. Unfortunately the umpiring analogy is not at all close. There are some facts that are out there including many dogs both dead and alive found on his property as well as much evidence of dog fighting and lots of paraphanalia used. Where does that all fit with the umpiring analogy?? I think between the Falcons and the Commish, we'll see Vick gone..maybe quietly or maybe it will be forced by public opinion.

 

[Pats726]

The NFL will not be able to ignore the Vick situation very long. I

expect to see the Peta group picketing all Atlanta Falcon events.

Sometimes these folks get carried away but in this case they are

one hundred percent justified. They may be joined by thousands of

dog lovers across the country. Bob Ryan had an excellent column on

his feelings about the situation.

I have NOT read Ryan yet....but I agree that this is a tidal wave that the NFL may HAVE to deal with sooner rather than later..and might be forced to by the public. I am saddened that the league will look poorly.

 

[Pats726]

Ryan has it right....

According to PFT, the Falcons will be making a BIG statement tomorrow about the situation. Frankly, I'd rather talk about football than this pathetic prima donna, but I agree with PFT's solution..that the Falcons should put Vick on a paid leave of abscence pending charges. It gets Goodell off the hook, gets Vick off the field and frees this issue from the NFL. THAT I think works. It does not interfere at all with any labor situation and all can wait for the trial in a few months and all can focus on football and let it play out in the courts. What is wrong with that??
Bob Ryan has this one right...he is outraged and very correct in his column.
" really cannot imagine a scenario in which Goodell will give his approval to someone accused of this loathsome crime representing his league. As justification, he can invoke the "Common Sense" or "Too Hot To Handle" clause inherent in his job description. And I cannot imagine there would be anything in this for Gene Upshaw. The Players Association needs this?
In a best-case scenario, the Falcons will make any Goodell decision moot by removing Vick from uniform, effective immediately. It's just common sense. At the very least, I foresee the largest People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) protests yet known wherever the Falcons play (or train). Ordinarily, I find the PETA people rather extreme and preposterous, but they would find themselves with countless new allies on this issue.
If owner Arthur Blank is going to run the Falcons with any integrity, he will distance himself and his organization from this business ASAP.
There is no competition issue. His team isn't going to the Super Bowl, with or without Michael Vick. Mr. Blank can't hide behind legalities or pay attention to any potential squawking from his new coach, Bobby Petrino. If the Falcons wind up with some empty seats as a result of losing Vick, Goodell can send him a check from the petty cash drawer.
Yes, yes, it's just an indictment.
Read it, please. It's easily available. See what happened to the dogs involved. It's an indictment, all right."
Amen to that....

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/articles/2007/07/19/vick_accusations_sickening/?page=1

 

[MoLewisrocks]

My friend...YOU need to read the indictment..there are MORE than a dozen allegations in to his bevavior over a series of years. It ISN't just one incident it's a total and complete package of MANY activities. YOU may see it as ONE particular crime..but if you look at the seriousness of it and see what is alleged it's a strong of incidents. To compare his heinous behavior with anything Pacman or Tank has done misses the severity and depth of all he has done. The FACTS are that were dogs both dead and alibe found on his property. It is a FACT that dog fighting went on at his house. It is a FACT that all kinds of dog fighting paraphnalia was found as well. If you wish to defend that, be my guest. If Goodell had guts, Vick would be suspended PENDING an NFL investigation. He is VERY much being treated differentally..maybe because he's a star; remember Pacman was suspended BEFORE his trial...why not Vick???

Only it's all related to one activity for which he had not been so much as questioned by the police let alone arrested or indicted until YESTERDAY - which BTW is when the commissioner made the statement you now think is better than what you insisted he didn't say yesterday. PacMan's spent more time being sought for questioning by police than he has on the football field in his brief career. That was the difference.

Frankly I talked to some folks today who would welcome the opportunity to confront Michael should he remain on the field this year. Witnessing that would likely scare more NFL players straight than a mere suspension. In the final analysis I hope while he's doing time with his new best friend Bubba, the Falcons cut his sorry ass and persue his signing bonus. Suspensions aren't my idea of punishment for guys with millions already in the bank.

 

[letekro]

Keep in mind that Vick has only been indicted and not officially charged with crimes. The other players Goodell took action against had been charged. IMO when/if charges are filed and some hard evidence is made public, Goodell will react accordingly.

The indictment IS the charging document. As for hard evidence, I guess the 54 injured dogs, 17 carcasses, and rape stands and other dog fighting paraphernalia found at the scene weren't enough for ya?

 

[Frezo]

The indictment IS the charging document. As for hard evidence, I guess the 54 injured dogs, 17 carcasses, and rape stands and other dog fighting paraphernalia found at the scene weren't enough for ya?

Has he been arrested?

 

[Pats726]

Only it's all related to one activity for which he had not been so much as questioned by the police let alone arrested or indicted until YESTERDAY - which BTW is when the commissioner made the statement you now think is better than what you insisted he didn't say yesterday. PacMan's spent more time being sought for questioning by police than he has on the football field in his brief career. That was the difference.

Frankly I talked to some folks today who would welcome the opportunity to confront Michael should he remain on the field this year. Witnessing that would likely scare more NFL players straight than a mere suspension. In the final analysis I hope while he's doing time with his new best friend Bubba, the Falcons cut his sorry ass and persue his signing bonus. Suspensions aren't my idea of punishment for guys with millions already in the bank.

One activity or a series of MANy things in that one activity??? Does it really matter?? It's far more serious than anything Pacman or Tank have done.... As I have concluded..the Falcons WILL do something..so Vick is gone.(leave of abscence) the Commish is spared having to actually DO something, Vick is out of the picture so protests and such will NOT be needed, and all can concentrate on the game..ALL better. Vick will have his DAYS in court..federal and possibly state charges and all is well...

 

[PatsSteve1]

I think they are somewhat hamstrung by their own new personal conduct policy. In order to be able to act on some of these guys, the NFL got to NFLPA to sign off on a policy of not requiring actual convictions or even arrests necessarily but rather basing their action on the frequency with which these players come in contact with the police. Vick doesn't really fit the profile.

* As I understand the policy I agree with you. The NFL shounldn't suspend him. But if Arthur Blank, as owner of the team, wants to sit him that's up to him. It's his team. I doubt he could do it without pay.

 

[Tunescribe]

Here is the e-mail address to write to the Falcons about Vick: [email protected].

 

[DaBruinz]

Innocent until proven guilty. Until Vick has actually been convicted of something, I don’t think they can act.

IMO I hope they lock him up and boot him from the NFL for LIFE!!

The NFL DID act before Pacman Jones had anything brought against him. And its not like Vick has been squeaky clean. He's had a few run ins that haven't amounted to anything. But then, neither did Pacman's.

 

[FarScapeR]

Really, the only person who could make this easier for all involved would be Vick.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Really, the only person who could make this easier for all involved would be Vick.

This is true. But as might be expected, Michael is too self absorbed and selfish to do that. According to Adam Schefter he has indicated he is still determined to play this season because after all in his world Michael is what the season is all about.

But as Pioli has opined about the limited pool of talent from which the Pats strive to select, there is not an abundance of intelligence in the league, even from Ivy League educated players. Marcellus Wiley was on NFL Total Access tonight and he actually said he thinks Michael's talent will prevail in spite of his legal entanglements and he will just have a tremendous season because he's Michael. He is in fact so talented he doesn't really need to practice. Perdue's Rod Woodson disagreed, and quite frankly looked dumbfounded listening to this genius. He said had Michael been 10 years into success in one system he might be able to navigate an NFL season and his legal problems simultaneously, but that is not the case here. He's experiencing his 4th system in 6 seasons (having mastered none of the previous 3) and if he can't give his full time and attention to the new system Woodson thinks he's doomed. I got the impression Rod thinks he's doomed, period. But then what does Rod know - he's an old school pre gangsta rap era dinosaur headed to the HOF.

 

[captain stone]

Re: Ryan has it right....

...but I agree with PFT's solution..that the Falcons should put Vick on a paid leave of abscence pending charges. It gets Goodell off the hook, gets Vick off the field and frees this issue from the NFL. THAT I think works. It does not interfere at all with any labor situation and all can wait for the trial in a few months and all can focus on football and let it play out in the courts. What is wrong with that??

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/articles/2007/07/19/vick_accusations_sickening/?page=1

Nothing wrong with that, at all. Vick should be given a paid leave of absence, effectively immediately, until, at the least, a trial date has been set. Then, if that date is several months away, maybe Goodell, Blank and Vick can think about a return. Maybe.

 

[alamo]

Everyone is msising a huge reason the NFL is being so tentative.

This is OJ redux. The opinions on Michael Vick's guilt (or more significantly, the severity of the penalty if he is guilty) break down along racial lines much more than any of the other cases mentioned. Felger had an Atlanta radio guy on on Thursday who confirmed as much.

Waiting for the court to decide may not solve the root problem, but it insulates the league from criticism that they are biased.

 

[atlpatsfan]

[QUOTE he lied to the commish also HAS to be taken into account.[/QUOTE]

I keep seeing this statement. How can you say he lied to the commish if he hasn't actually been convicted yet? Maybe he actually was telling the truth. I personally don't believe he is but this is still America and he should not be tried in the court of public opinion. Give him his day in court and if he is convicted then he deserves everything he gets. If he is found not guilty then everyone who had him set to hang needs to apologize and get off his back.

 

[nhpatsfan]

[QUOTE he lied to the commish also HAS to be taken into account.

I keep seeing this statement. How can you say he lied to the commish if he hasn't actually been convicted yet? Maybe he actually was telling the truth. I personally don't believe he is but this is still America and he should not be tried in the court of public opinion. Give him his day in court and if he is convicted then he deserves everything he gets. If he is found not guilty then everyone who had him set to hang needs to apologize and get off his back.[/QUOTE]


I questioned that statement too, as it seems to be second and third hand information.
But four cooperating witnesses? It's a real stretch to keep an open mind at that point. I'd never be picked to be on that jury.