Is Malcolm Brown a BUST

[Ring 6]

There is no reason to bring Shelton here if MB was pulling his weight. Brown was suppose to take over for big Vince Wilfork but the guy has been underwhelming and invisible at times.

The 2007 NE run defense was a $hithole, but it could not have been any worse in the middle of the DL where Ol Malcolm makes his living.

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2017 DEFENSIVE LINES

NE asked Vince to hit the road after a couple of seasons of Malcolm in the middle numbers. Vince was hitting his stride at this point in his career at NT.

Malc Malcom Brown Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Vince Vince Wilfork Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Nfl teams play 2 DTs.
Brien has never been expected to play the same role as wilfork.

 

[chris_in_sunnyvale]

A bust we'll see on display in the HOF? Not yet, anyway.

Regards,
Chris

 

[Flash]

Compare him to arguably the greatest nose tackle to ever play? Yeah of course he's going to look like a bust...

 

[BradyFTW!]

Shelton is a Branch replacement, not a Brown replacement. They're both going to get plenty of snaps, oftentimes playing alongside each other. Brown hasn't been what I hoped when we drafted him, but he's far from a bust. We got a productive better-than-league-average starter who's going to command a premium contract in FA, which is a solid return at #32.

If you're determined to take issue with one of Belichick's first rounders, focus on Easley instead.

 

[50-yard-line]

Since 2013 our top draft picks have been a lot closer to striking out than home runs

2014 Dominque Easley , Jimmy G
2015 Malcolm Brown, Jordan Richards, Geneo Grissom
2016 Cyrus Jones , Vince Valentine, Joe Thuney, Jacoby B
2017 Derek Rivers, Antonio Garcia

The only home run in there was Jimmy G, and he’s no longer on the team


Patriots had really good drafts 2010-2013.... I hope we can get back on that same track the next few years

2014: They took a chance on Easley with a stacked roster. Should have drafted Tuitt, I agree, but if Easley had panned out, he had Aaron Donald potential. I don't know how you can let that pass when you're always drafting at the end of the round.

Jimmy G was a great pick.

2015: Again, end of the round, and the best remaining DT on the board. Most here were elated when the Colts picked Dorsett and left him on the board. He's not a true NT, and was never meant to be. He'll do much better with a good big body beside him.

Other than that...Trey Flowers was picked just a few slots down from Grissom. Pretty unfair to leave him off to make a point.

2016: Cyrus Jones is probably a bust (one last chance?), but Valentine, Thuney, and Brissett were all very good picks, particularly when you consider the maneuvering the Pats had to do without a first round pick.

2017: The jury is still out. Same thing that happened to Rivers happened to Trey Flowers, remember?

How many home runs come from the bottom of the first round down? How many rookies even get enough of a chance to be one on a team that is constantly stacked with proven vets?

I don't know what other teams people are watching to think that the draft is a sure-fire way to get pro-bowlers. Get into the top-10, top-15, maybe, and we'll talk, but you don't get a Myles Garrett or a Khalil Mack or a Jadavion Clowney or even a Leonard Williams picking outside the top 10.

(Ps. Look at all the former 1st rounders the Pats have picked up on the cheap over the last couple of years as all the evidence you need that your home-run thesis is severely flawed. Shea McLellin, Jonathan Cooper, Danny Shelton, Barkavious Mingo, Phillip Dorsett.)

 

[Wozzy]

He sucks.

Belidick's terrible roster management caught up with them. Getting 500 yards passing and 33 points still wasn't nearly enough.

Yes, Bill should have anticipated injuries. And despite only logically being able to carry three DT's on a 53 man roster Bill should have had a young Vince Wilfork on his practice squad... because other teams wouldn't poach him. He should have told Alan Branch "hey buddy be careful on this next play because you're going to sprain your knee," he also should have warned Vincent Valentine not to practice too hard that day because he was going to blow out a knee ligament. But its cool because according to you Bill should be able to plug Ricky Jean Francois in there after finding him in Dunkin Doughnuts parking lot and the defense shouldn't miss a beat... because defense happens in a vacuum.

Bill should have told Hightower not to play so hard and to take the next play off because he felt an injury coming on. When he was warning Valentine not to practice too hard he also should have told Derek Rivers the same, because Bill should have known about these upcoming injuries, his third eye should have seen it coming. He should have told Harvey Langhi not to get into the car that day with his wife because he knew a drunk driver was going to plow into his car. He should have warned Shea McClellin not to push it too hard because he was on the older side, or asked Van Noy to forget about his injury because we can't afford to lose you for however many games. Oh yeah and Bill should have had plenty of Pro Bowl linebackers in reserve on his practice squad because you find a lot of those with late round picks... they're everywhere. Also guys like Marquise Flowers found on the scrapheap to replace these injured players should have stepped up to play like All Pros... because you've told Bill that injuries are no excuse.

He should have taught Gilmore and the other new guys in the secondary better for the first four games despite the NFL player's union creating strict rules about hitting and time spent in practice, Bill should have had two-a-days despite the league mandating otherwise. He should have told Jonathan Jones to take a seat because we can't afford to lose our best nickel corner to injury in the middle of a playoff game, Bill really should have seen that coming. He should have known Chung would get hurt in the Super Bowl and had an All Pro SS ready to go because Chung's backup Nate Ebner didn't listen when Bill warned him not to injure his knee.

Sounds legit.

 

[Deus Irae]

Shelton is a Branch replacement, not a Brown replacement. They're both going to get plenty of snaps, oftentimes playing alongside each other. Brown hasn't been what I hoped when we drafted him, but he's far from a bust. We got a productive better-than-league-average starter who's going to command a premium contract in FA, which is a solid return at #32.

If you're determined to take issue with one of Belichick's first rounders, focus on Easley instead.

What's the over/under on lifetime total ACL surgeries for Easley?

 

[BradyFTW!]

What's the over/under on lifetime total ACL surgeries for Easley?

You'd have to push it up to 4.5 before I'd consider taking the under, and even then I wouldn't feel good about it.

 

[RayClay]

There is no reason to bring Shelton here if MB was pulling his weight. Brown was suppose to take over for big Vince Wilfork but the guy has been underwhelming and invisible at times.

The 2007 NE run defense was a $hithole, but it could not have been any worse in the middle of the DL where Ol Malcolm makes his living.

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2017 DEFENSIVE LINES

NE asked Vince to hit the road after a couple of seasons of Malcolm in the middle numbers. Vince was hitting his stride at this point in his career at NT.

Malc Malcom Brown Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Vince Vince Wilfork Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Wrong. Shelton was to replace Branch, not Brown. Brown is more athletic, less lard ass, so he and Shelton should make a good team.

 

[RayClay]

Since 2013 our top draft picks have been a lot closer to striking out than home runs

2014 Dominque Easley , Jimmy G
2015 Malcolm Brown, Jordan Richards, Geneo Grissom
2016 Cyrus Jones , Vince Valentine, Joe Thuney, Jacoby B
2017 Derek Rivers, Antonio Garcia

The only home run in there was Jimmy G, and he’s no longer on the team


Patriots had really good drafts 2010-2013.... I hope we can get back on that same track the next few years

Actually, you never strike out, or hit home runs, that's baseball. 2 most recent super Bowls, one win, given the worst draft spots and all the contract, injury problems that go with playing the last game almost every year.

We pick 31-32 and posters act like we have the #1 overall each year.

 

[pctronics0072]

Since 2013 our top draft picks have been a lot closer to striking out than home runs

2014 Dominque Easley , Jimmy G
2015 Malcolm Brown, Jordan Richards, Geneo Grissom
2016 Cyrus Jones , Vince Valentine, Joe Thuney, Jacoby B
2017 Derek Rivers, Antonio Garcia

The only home run in there was Jimmy G, and he’s no longer on the team


Patriots had really good drafts 2010-2013.... I hope we can get back on that same track the next few years

There are a lot more wins in there than you claim. Also, the draft is not an exact science.


I think m Brown is at or just a bit above what should be expected for an end of 1st round pick. I would be interesting to see where he would go on a redraft.

What's the over/under on lifetime total ACL surgeries for Easley?

You run out of places to put the bone tunnels. I do not do more than 3 in a single knee. I know a couple of people in the field (one of whom I trained under) that have done 4 in a knee. When I was in training there were a couple books out there that said doing more than 4 predisposes to catastrophic knee fracture. Some of these may not heal and may even require above knee amputation.

Therefore I say 7 total.

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

Well i wish our line got more of a push consistently. They where dominated against the eagles. We need some athletic d linemen.

 

[Nehalem]

If only the Colts had taken him, like the obviously should have, we could have gotten Brady Philip Dorsett

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Brown is a solid two gap Dt with superior technique and run stopping ability.

He will never be a pass rush monster.

Shelton is going to make him a better player.

 

[TBR]

Yes, Bill should have anticipated injuries. And despite only logically being able to carry three DT's on a 53 man roster Bill should have had a young Vince Wilfork on his practice squad... because other teams wouldn't poach him. He should have told Alan Branch "hey buddy be careful on this next play because you're going to sprain your knee," he also should have warned Vincent Valentine not to practice too hard that day because he was going to blow out a knee ligament. But its cool because according to you Bill should be able to plug Ricky Jean Francois in there after finding him in Dunkin Doughnuts parking lot and the defense shouldn't miss a beat... because defense happens in a vacuum.

Bill should have told Hightower not to play so hard and to take the next play off because he felt an injury coming on. When he was warning Valentine not to practice too hard he also should have told Derek Rivers the same, because Bill should have known about these upcoming injuries, his third eye should have seen it coming. He should have told Harvey Langhi not to get into the car that day with his wife because he knew a drunk driver was going to plow into his car. He should have warned Shea McClellin not to push it too hard because he was on the older side, or asked Van Noy to forget about his injury because we can't afford to lose you for however many games. Oh yeah and Bill should have had plenty of Pro Bowl linebackers in reserve on his practice squad because you find a lot of those with late round picks... they're everywhere. Also guys like Marquise Flowers found on the scrapheap to replace these injured players should have stepped up to play like All Pros... because you've told Bill that injuries are no excuse.

He should have taught Gilmore and the other new guys in the secondary better for the first four games despite the NFL player's union creating strict rules about hitting and time spent in practice, Bill should have had two-a-days despite the league mandating otherwise. He should have told Jonathan Jones to take a seat because we can't afford to lose our best nickel corner to injury in the middle of a playoff game, Bill really should have seen that coming. He should have known Chung would get hurt in the Super Bowl and had an All Pro SS ready to go because Chung's backup Nate Ebner didn't listen when Bill warned him not to injure his knee.

Sounds legit.

This is wildly disingenuous.

Not going to bother getting into it all, but Belichick drafted Easley knowing he tore both ACLs in college. And while I'm in favor of the Hightower re-signing last year, Bill still gave him that new contract knowing he had a partial pec tear. He also gambled a valuable 2nd round pick on Jordan Richards when it was more than likely he'd be there in rounds 5-7, possibly a UDFA.

Belichick can be criticized, believe it or not. I hope some of you realize that. I think it's fair to look at the last 4 drafts (particularly the top 2 picks) and opine that they were underwhelming. Nobody is saying he's a garbage GM/coach who should've had a crystal ball.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

They took a chance on Easley with a stacked roster. Should have drafted Tuitt, I agree, but if Easley had panned out,

IF is a powerful word .

It's the guys that show top performer ability in NFL games, on occasion, yet can't achieve the required consistency to be a top performer that are of greatest top pick disappointment. IMHO Easley fits that category. He had moments where, to me, his play really stood out. But injury and......lack of passion to be great at his position??......just didn't allow consistency to ever be close to a reality.

 

[Adam Seward]

He sucks.

Belidick's terrible roster management caught up with them. Getting 500 yards passing and 33 points still wasn't nearly enough.

Is it TennisBall Head because both bounce high when thrown down on pavement?

Genuine question.

 

[Tony2046]

Since 2013 our top draft picks have been a lot closer to striking out than home runs

2014 Dominque Easley , Jimmy G
2015 Malcolm Brown, Jordan Richards, Geneo Grissom
2016 Cyrus Jones , Vince Valentine, Joe Thuney, Jacoby B
2017 Derek Rivers, Antonio Garcia

The only home run in there was Jimmy G, and he’s no longer on the team


Patriots had really good drafts 2010-2013.... I hope we can get back on that same track the next few years

Brown is not a bust. He's a solid DT. He's just not good enough to clean up a sloppy Branch's mess.
Jones is too early to tell.
VV looked pretty good before he got injured..
Thuney is not a bust.
JB started and is a viable backup QB. Not a bust.
Derek River and Garcia - way too early to tell.

 

[Tony2046]

I don't think he was ever thought of as a Wilfork replacement. Wilfork was a huge, but kind of quick, and basically immovable 3-4 noseguard. Brown doesn't really fit as a noseguard. He is much more of a defensive tackle in a 4-3 or 4-3 variations.

Amen..

Brown is not an NT. Not sure where people got that from.

 

[Wozzy]

This is wildly disingenuous.

Not going to bother getting into it all, but Belichick drafted Easley knowing he tore both ACLs in college. And while I'm in favor of the Hightower re-signing last year, Bill still gave him that new contract knowing he had a partial pec tear. He also gambled a valuable 2nd round pick on Jordan Richards when it was more than likely he'd be there in rounds 5-7, possibly a UDFA.

Belichick can be criticized, believe it or not. I hope some of you realize that. I think it's fair to look at the last 4 drafts (particularly the top 2 picks) and opine that they were underwhelming. Nobody is saying he's a garbage GM/coach who should've had a crystal ball.

The draft is a crapshoot, the average career lasts 3 years.

Nobody is saying you can't criticize individual moves, I do it all the time. That's not what homeboy above was saying though was it?

BB's personnel moves are largely why the Patriots have won 2 Super Bowls and had 3 appearances in the last 4 years.

Meanwhile Philly just won their first championship in 58 years of trying and there's 12 teams that have never won a Super Bowl... because it's hard.