Is Malcolm Brown a BUST

[Joey007]

Am I a little disappointed that he hasn’t quite become the player I thought he would be? Yes.

Is he a bust? Not at all.

Plain and simple- he’s a fine player. He’s able to do a bit of everything as a DT, and has had a few highlight worthy plays to show for as well. (I.E. The safety vs. Baltimore in 16)

 

[Joey007]

In comparison, Easley was seemingly a bit of a reach in the late 1st round, where Brown was thought of as great value when he fell to us at the end of the 1st.

I suppose you could say that Brown has always had higher expectations than Easley had here because of that.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

There are a lot more wins in there than you claim. Also, the draft is not an exact science.


I think m Brown is at or just a bit above what should be expected for an end of 1st round pick. I would be interesting to see where he would go on a redraft.




You run out of places to put the bone tunnels. I do not do more than 3 in a single knee. I know a couple of people in the field (one of whom I trained under) that have done 4 in a knee. When I was in training there were a couple books out there that said doing more than 4 predisposes to catastrophic knee fracture. Some of these may not heal and may even require above knee amputation.

Therefore I say 7 total.

Well look at it this way

From 2009-2013 drafts patriots hit home runs on Julian Edelman , Aaron Hernandez, Pat Chung, Duran Harmon, Marcus Cannon, Nate Soldier, Sebastian Vollmer, Devin Mccourty, Rob Gronkowski, Logan Ryan, Jamie Collins, donta Hightower , chandler jones....

Most of those guys were young stars...most of them built the foundation of our super bowl runs of 2014 and 2016.

Now that some of those guys are no longer on the team or are getting up their in age...what young stars do we have to replace them from the draft? I’ll give you Shaq Mason and Trey Flowers..But I see Flowers walking in free agency next year

 

[NG Pats Fan]

2014: They took a chance on Easley with a stacked roster. Should have drafted Tuitt, I agree, but if Easley had panned out, he had Aaron Donald potential. I don't know how you can let that pass when you're always drafting at the end of the round.

Jimmy G was a great pick.

2015: Again, end of the round, and the best remaining DT on the board. Most here were elated when the Colts picked Dorsett and left him on the board. He's not a true NT, and was never meant to be. He'll do much better with a good big body beside him.

Other than that...Trey Flowers was picked just a few slots down from Grissom. Pretty unfair to leave him off to make a point.

2016: Cyrus Jones is probably a bust (one last chance?), but Valentine, Thuney, and Brissett were all very good picks, particularly when you consider the maneuvering the Pats had to do without a first round pick.

2017: The jury is still out. Same thing that happened to Rivers happened to Trey Flowers, remember?

How many home runs come from the bottom of the first round down? How many rookies even get enough of a chance to be one on a team that is constantly stacked with proven vets?

I don't know what other teams people are watching to think that the draft is a sure-fire way to get pro-bowlers. Get into the top-10, top-15, maybe, and we'll talk, but you don't get a Myles Garrett or a Khalil Mack or a Jadavion Clowney or even a Leonard Williams picking outside the top 10.

(Ps. Look at all the former 1st rounders the Pats have picked up on the cheap over the last couple of years as all the evidence you need that your home-run thesis is severely flawed. Shea McLellin, Jonathan Cooper, Danny Shelton, Barkavious Mingo, Phillip Dorsett.)

You can defend them all you want and you make some good points..however I will say the patriots collected a lot more young stars in 10-13 drafts than they did 14-17..

 

[Deus Irae]

Amen..

Brown is not an NT. Not sure where people got that from.

He'd played two years at NT in college, and part of his allure was his versatility, as he played all along the line during his college career. Unfortunately, you're right. At the NFL level, Brown is not a NT.

 

[Deus Irae]

You can defend them all you want and you make some good points..however I will say the patriots collected a lot more young stars in 10-13 drafts than they did 14-17..

Misses combined with picks that were taken or traded away. That'll do it, every time.

 

[ATippett56]

There is no reason to bring Shelton here if MB was pulling his weight. Brown was suppose to take over for big Vince Wilfork but the guy has been underwhelming and invisible at times.

The 2007 NE run defense was a $hithole, but it could not have been any worse in the middle of the DL where Ol Malcolm makes his living.

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2017 DEFENSIVE LINES

NE asked Vince to hit the road after a couple of seasons of Malcolm in the middle numbers. Vince was hitting his stride at this point in his career at NT.

Malc Malcom Brown Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Vince Vince Wilfork Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Calling Dr Howard Dr Fine Dr Howard

 

[DarrylS]

Trying to quantify how a D lineman plays in our defense is nearly impossible, remember when Seymour was here and caught the vitriol of this board as he never showed up in the box score, only to have BB ascend to the podium midweek and tell us what a great game #93 had..

 

[DarrylS]

Well look at it this way

From 2009-2013 drafts patriots hit home runs on Julian Edelman , Aaron Hernandez, Pat Chung, Duran Harmon, Marcus Cannon, Nate Soldier, Sebastian Vollmer, Devin Mccourty, Rob Gronkowski, Logan Ryan, Jamie Collins, donta Hightower , chandler jones....

Most of those guys were young stars...most of them built the foundation of our super bowl runs of 2014 and 2016.

Now that some of those guys are no longer on the team or are getting up their in age...what young stars do we have to replace them from the draft? I’ll give you Shaq Mason and Trey Flowers..But I see Flowers walking in free agency next year

But somehow, someway the Pats made it to two of the last three Superbowls.. all the while there are teams with "spectacular drafts" who languish in mediocrity..

When a teams picks #30+ in every draft and when the Commish steals a draft pick the Pats get creative in how they team build....

IMO the draft is overrated and just an NFL/media ploy to continue the interest in the offseason, to turn the NFL into a 12 month sport..

 

[Jackson 2]

Calling Dr Howard Dr Fine Dr Howard

Kudos to you on a really apt response to drivel.

 

[supafly]

But somehow, someway the Pats made it to two of the last three Superbowls.. all the while there are teams with "spectacular drafts" who languish in mediocrity..

When a teams picks #30+ in every draft and when the Commish steals a draft pick the Pats get creative in how they team build....

IMO the draft is overrated and just an NFL/media ploy to continue the interest in the offseason, to turn the NFL into a 12 month sport..

I respectfully disagree on some level, Darryl. While they made it to 2/3 past SBs (or 3/4, really) the missed, injured, and stolen picks had not yet caught up to them. I think we saw that lack of depth at all three levels of the defense at times last season, particularly in the bookend losses of the season where the defense gave up 40+. Had we not wasted top picks such as Cyrus Jones, Easley, stolen 1st/4th, Jordan Richards as a 2nd, Grissom, etc things would be a lot different. Add in the unfortunate injuries to high round guys like Rivers, Valentine, Mitchell, and Garcia, and you can easily see how this has set the future of the team back a bit.

Even the hits such as Mason, Thuney, and Flowers (and Cooks, since he cost us a 1st + 3rd) will be difficult to keep due to the high double digit millions per year that will come with a second pact. We can reasonably hope to retain 1-2 of them.

I think the draft is very important due to the salary cap structure and the need for young, cheap players. Not only do you need that youth and speed at some positions, but you also need those cheaper players to offset your more expensive stars and round out your 90-to-53 man roster. This upcoming draft is going to be key in how the future of the team looks, as will the health of some of the other recent higher picks, but I do believe right or wrong, that the draft misses have caught up to us a bit.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Well look at it this way

From 2009-2013 drafts patriots hit home runs on Julian Edelman , Aaron Hernandez, Pat Chung, Duran Harmon, Marcus Cannon, Nate Soldier, Sebastian Vollmer, Devin Mccourty, Rob Gronkowski, Logan Ryan, Jamie Collins, donta Hightower , chandler jones....

Most of those guys were young stars...most of them built the foundation of our super bowl runs of 2014 and 2016.

Now that some of those guys are no longer on the team or are getting up their in age...what young stars do we have to replace them from the draft? I’ll give you Shaq Mason and Trey Flowers..But I see Flowers walking in free agency next year

It's not quite that simple. Look at Seattle, who drafted extremely well early on and struggled later. So did the Packers.

Part of it comes down to opportunities. Many of those guys were day 1 starters, partly because of talent, partly because of nobody ahead of them at the time. Solder, McCourty, Gronkowski, Collins, Hightower and Chandler are all guys who had little or no real competition, and were forced to learn on the job.

Compare that to Brown and Easley and Cyrus Jones, guys who could play a role if all went right, but weren't depended on and not needed. They fought for limited snaps and had to try and develop a role.

And guys like Edelman, Chung, and Cannon took several years to develop. Chung played a lot, but struggled a lot too, and had to leave and come back before fulfilling his potential. Cannon played here and there, but didn't become a fulltime starter until year 5. And Edelman almost left the team before establishing himself as a key contributor.

But those early teams also lacked depth, so you could carry these kids and let them grow up and develop. Now we have one of the deepest teams in the league, and it's harder to let those types of prospects stick around and develop. Grugier-Hill and Derby are two recent examples of guys who might have stuck around on a depleted roster and developed in the background, but we can't afford to carry anymore.

And again, people get carried away looking at the draft and seeing if prospects develop or not. That's not the point of the game. The team is stacked and players have to fight for playing time. That's fine. If a few rookies don't reach their full potential, that's fine too. We're not the Browns, sacrificing wins to try and develop potential. We're competing for Super Bowls.

It's no surprise that teams that are terrible like the Seahawks end up having some great drafts as young kids get opportunities to develop, then you see them struggle to develop as the team gets stronger. That's common in the NFL, and not specific to New England.

 

[TomPatriot]

I do have to say...I still haven’t gotten over the fact Brady threw for 500 yards and we still lost...I didn’t think that was possible.

Brandon Graham says hello. The Eagles made more plays.

 

[BTTA]

Well look at it this way

From 2009-2013 drafts patriots hit home runs on Julian Edelman , Aaron Hernandez, Pat Chung, Duran Harmon, Marcus Cannon, Nate Soldier, Sebastian Vollmer, Devin Mccourty, Rob Gronkowski, Logan Ryan, Jamie Collins, donta Hightower , chandler jones....

Most of those guys were young stars...most of them built the foundation of our super bowl runs of 2014 and 2016.

Now that some of those guys are no longer on the team or are getting up their in age...what young stars do we have to replace them from the draft? I’ll give you Shaq Mason and Trey Flowers..But I see Flowers walking in free agency next year

So you can decide that 2009-2013 is a normal degree of success, and then choose to have an attitude of entitlement that the team owes you that in every 5 year period, then whine and label people when they don't quite pull it off.

Or you can count your lucky stars that the team pulled that off in those 5 years, extending its dominance of the NFL into an unprecedented period, making you one of the luckiest fans in the history of pro sports, gaining pleasure from it you didn't have to lift a finger for.

 

[Kontradiction]

Can we ban this guy? He's trolling and there's no need to call Belichick names. @IcyPatriot @Ross12

TennisBallHead is in his prime. Why on Earth would we want to ban him?

 

[Clonamery]

Truly great busts:

 

[Triumph]

I gather this is about the 2017 team not 2007. Malcolm Brown certainly was not great however which member of the front 7 actually was great?

A great D starts with stopping the run and especially in the middle to force the RB to the edges. Make them run east to west.

There has been a leak right in the center of the boat.

 

[Triumph]

Brown is a decent player and definitely not a bust. I'll grant you he hasn't lived up to some of the expectations when he was drafted. He has a place on our defense, but he also needs help on that line.

Im not saying cut him.

BB can find some use for Malcolm B.

 

[Triumph]

He's not as good as one of the all-time greats so of course he's a bust.

Brown is as good as Vince in his retirement years.

BB evidently saw no upside and went and got Shelton.

 

[Triumph]

He's not in the class of a Seymour or Wilfork, or even of a Warren or Branch to this point, but DT was a position of need and the Patriots got an adequate one in Brown.

An adequate DT can be found on the FA scrap heap or even in late draft rounds. NE has a club option on Browns contract in 2019. At this point I would bid him adieu.

Without vast improvement he will be clearing out his locker if he is expecting a big payday after this season.