Instant Reaction: Your Patriots 2023 Draft Grade

[dex13]

I really can’t get behind that kicker pick. I just have no way to rationalize trading up for a guy that you don’t need to trade up for, let alone a kicker. He needs to beat out Folk in camp, win the job and be good otherwise I just see it as a total head scratcher. Might as well have taken a shot at an offensive skill player or tackle.

I agree to a point. 4th is a little early but it's borderline where you might focus on team needs and players you really like. Day 1&2 draft is so different than day 3. It's almost like there are two sets of rules/guidelines.

 

[rochrist]

Did they have the ammo though? The Raiders moved up 3 spots, it cost them 38 and 141. I'm guessing, uneducatedly, that to get in the end of R2 probably would have cost the 3 and maybe a 4 and a pick next year? We are talking about moving up into the 50s from 76. That's big jump, when it seems the values in the 100-130 range was not as high as some other years. I can see a scenario where the Pats would make a call and get told that no one wants your R4s. I am not trying to make excuses or be a homer, just trying to grasp whey they didn't move up when it appeared the ammo was there.

That's basically what Groh said.

 

[n6249c]

I'm wondering if BB is tinkering with Owenu as a backup tackle. He did fairly well at RT back in 2020.

I expect they’ll at least take a look at Sow at tackle. Maybe make a serious conversion project around him. Wonder if they could interest Dante in doing some freelance project work?

 

[Brotherblues]

I'm wondering if BB is tinkering with Owenu as a backup tackle. He did fairly well at RT back in 2020.

Did it well as a rookie by all accounts and reports and evaluations from independent observers... and was still mysteriously moved out of that spot. They've tried the weirdest stuff fix the RT position (Wynn, corpse of Cannon, a Jete practice squadder), just about everything except putting the guy who has the skill and measurables and already did it well as a rookie. Not quite Butler-level mystery but it's up there.

Maybe the new coaches are more open to the idea though...

 

[50-yard-line]

never heard of bnb football, thanks for the tip, will read the site

2023 NFL Draft Prospects: Kicker – WalterFootball

walterfootball.com

I saw the Walter Football one - makes no sense.
Pretty much every other list, look at the numbers on the top 5 prospects, which include Ryland. He had the highest touchback %. His FG and XP % was as good or better than any of them, except for Moody.

Moody had an insanely good year, but Ryland had good year after year. He's got a monster leg.
At the combine, his kicking made the rest look bad. Maybe he wasn't number 1, maybe some of hte others, like the kid from Georgia will turn out better. But to not have him in the top 10 is really weird. He kicks in bad weather, hits game-winners regularly, hits it high and long on kickoffs with a 70% touchback rate.
Walter missed this badly. Only six kickers were invited to the combine, and of them, the consensus top three were Moody, Ryland, and Podesny in that order. We're talking a 5-year kicker here, like Moody - this is a good pick. If all were on the board, I still probably would have gone Ryland over Moody, just because Moody's year was so exceptional, even for Moody. I'd have been happy with either.

 

[n6249c]

Did it well as a rookie by all accounts and reports and evaluations from independent observers... and was still mysteriously moved out of that spot. They've tried the weirdest stuff fix the RT position (Wynn, corpse of Cannon, a Jete practice squadder), just about everything except putting the guy who has the skill and measurables and already did it well as a rookie. Not quite Butler-level mystery but it's up there.

Maybe the new coaches are more open to the idea though...

Maybe at the time they saw guard as a bigger need/place where Onwenu would contribute most value. That equation might have changed with the influx of IOL talent this draft.

 

[Bill Lee]

 

[Pape]

Did they have the ammo though? The Raiders moved up 3 spots, it cost them 38 and 141. I'm guessing, uneducatedly, that to get in the end of R2 probably would have cost the 3 and maybe a 4 and a pick next year? We are talking about moving up into the 50s from 76. That's big jump, when it seems the values in the 100-130 range was not as high as some other years. I can see a scenario where the Pats would make a call and get told that no one wants your R4s. I am not trying to make excuses or be a homer, just trying to grasp whey they didn't move up when it appeared the ammo was there.

you would be working with 46 in the move, so yes, they had the ammo to move up... 46 and the first 4th, even the second 4th... toss in a 5th or 6th if you want... seems workable to me... we had piles of late round picks to work with

as for being a homer, well, can I just say welcome to the club?

 

[rochrist]

you would be working with 46 in the move, so yes, they had the ammo to move up... 46 and the first 4th, even the second 4th... toss in a 5th or 6th if you want... seems workable to me... we had piles of late round picks to work with

as for being a homer, well, can I just say welcome to the club?

Groh specifically said no one wanted more draft picks.

 

[Pape]

I saw the Walter Football one - makes no sense.
Pretty much every other list, look at the numbers on the top 5 prospects, which include Ryland. He had the highest touchback %. His FG and XP % was as good or better than any of them, except for Moody.

Moody had an insanely good year, but Ryland had good year after year. He's got a monster leg.
At the combine, his kicking made the rest look bad. Maybe he wasn't number 1, maybe some of hte others, like the kid from Georgia will turn out better. But to not have him in the top 10 is really weird. He kicks in bad weather, hits game-winners regularly, hits it high and long on kickoffs with a 70% touchback rate.
Walter missed this badly. Only six kickers were invited to the combine, and of them, the consensus top three were Moody, Ryland, and Podesny in that order. We're talking a 5-year kicker here, like Moody - this is a good pick. If all were on the board, I still probably would have gone Ryland over Moody, just because Moody's year was so exceptional, even for Moody. I'd have been happy with either.

walter is basically my go to site... been around forever... has good draft info imo...

 

[Pape]

Groh specifically said no one wanted more draft picks.

even better, move up for less

 

[rochrist]

even better, move up for less

You don't get it. They tried to move up, no one wanted their picks to ALLOW them to move up.

 

[Pape]

You don't get it. They tried to move up, no one wanted their picks to ALLOW them to move up.

Oh I get it. Its you whos missing the point

 

[Steve102]

you would be working with 46 in the move, so yes, they had the ammo to move up... 46 and the first 4th, even the second 4th... toss in a 5th or 6th if you want... seems workable to me... we had piles of late round picks to work with

as for being a homer, well, can I just say welcome to the club?

Well, no, you wouldn't be giving up 46, because in the scenario I laid out, they kept 46 for White.

Here's the value chart: 2023 NFL Trade Value Chart

If you wanted to get 55, you need 350 points. So let's say you gave up 112, which is 70, you need 280 still. Their R3 at 76 is 210, you're still short 70, so it's going to take another 4th. 107 is 80, so that works, or 117 at 60 points and 192, which is 13 points. So...

The pats trade R3 (76), 2 R4s (107 and 112) or 76, 112, 117 and R6 192 to KC to get pick 55 and select ________________. That's assuming the KC doesn't tell them to eff off on 107, 112 and 117 and demand a 2 next year. Either way, you'd better be damned sure that the guy at 55 is a dude. If you wanted to go higher into the 30's or 40's it's even more. So if we are hearing that no one wants your ****ty 100-120 picks, how are you going up to the end of R2?

Moving up 3-4 spots is one thing, but moving up from one round to another round costs a lot. You best be in love with player X and he better be a lock to contribute at a high level.

 

[Pape]

Well, no, you wouldn't be giving up 46, because in the scenario I laid out, they kept 46 for White.

Here's the value chart: 2023 NFL Trade Value Chart

If you wanted to get 55, you need 350 points. So let's say you gave up 112, which is 70, you need 280 still. Their R3 at 76 is 210, you're still short 70, so it's going to take another 4th. 107 is 80, so that works, or 117 at 60 points and 192, which is 13 points. So...

The pats trade R3 (76), 2 R4s (107 and 112) or 76, 112, 117 and R6 192 to KC to get pick 55 and select ________________. That's assuming the KC doesn't tell them to eff off on 107, 112 and 117 and demand a 2 next year. Either way, you'd better be damned sure that the guy at 55 is a dude. If you wanted to go higher into the 30's or 40's it's even more. So if we are hearing that no one wants your ****ty 100-120 picks, how are you going up to the end of R2?

Moving up 3-4 spots is one thing, but moving up from one round to another round costs a lot. You best be in love with player X and he better be a lock to contribute at a high level.

ahhh, i misread that ... I wanted to move up in round 2... from 46

 

[Steve102]

ahhh, i misread that ... I wanted to move up in round 2... from 46

so I did all that for nothing ?

Well, I guess I like the White pick at 46 a lot. So you're basically asking me to give up White for Mayer, plus a 4th? I dunno, I like the White pick (a lot) and I think the defense has to be lights out in order for them to compete with Bills, Jets, Dolphins, Chiefs, Cowboys and Raiders. Never mind the rest. I think they have to be a top 3 maybe a top 5 D to have a shot, and I think they are closer to that than they are having a top offense. I think Baringer can give them good field position, so I think they can win the ST battle. We know they have electric return men. If they win those two phases and the offense does more than just puke on themselves, then I think they can compete. They probably won't be fun to watch if you don't like defense.

 

[Pape]

so I did all that for nothing ?

Well, I guess I like the White pick at 46 a lot. So you're basically asking me to give up White for Mayer, plus a 4th? I dunno, I like the White pick (a lot) and I think the defense has to be lights out in order for them to compete with Bills, Jets, Dolphins, Chiefs, Cowboys and Raiders. Never mind the rest. I think they have to be a top 3 maybe a top 5 D to have a shot, and I think they are closer to that than they are having a top offense. I think Baringer can give them good field position, so I think they can win the ST battle. We know they have electric return men. If they win those two phases and the offense does more than just puke on themselves, then I think they can compete. They probably won't be fun to watch if you don't like defense.

i like that we got an edge, thought it was a need...

but i have never heard of keion white, so for the specific player? I sincerely hope he's a beast

but I would have given him up for Mayer, 24/7/365 ... Mac needs offensive playmakers to work with... right now, we don't have a ton of talent surrounding him... Mayer coulda been his binkie

 

[Steve102]

i like that we got an edge

but i have never heard of keion white, so for the specific player? Hope he's a beast

but I would have given him up for Mayer, 24/7/365

Ok.. we have an impasse. I don't think Mayer is going to be Gronk 2.0.

You know, we both could be right. Mayer could be the next great TE and White could be the next great edge defender. I will die on this hill: the D is a whole ****ton closer to elite than the offense is, even if you add Mayer.

 

[Pape]

Ok.. we have an impasse. I don't think Mayer is going to be Gronk 2.0.

You know, we both could be right. Mayer could be the next great TE and White could be the next great edge defender. I will die on this hill: the D is a whole ****ton closer to elite than the offense is, even if you add Mayer.

 

[Pape]

You don't get it. They tried to move up, no one wanted their picks to ALLOW them to move up.

there were 38 trades between day 2 and 3 ...

dont tell me a deal couldn't be worked because its just not true.