Patriots Local News:

SOURCE:CBS Boston


SOURCE:CBS Boston


SOURCE:USA TODAY


SOURCE:ProFootballTalk.com


SOURCE:Yahoo! Sports


SOURCE:Yahoo! Sports


SOURCE:NESN


SOURCE:NESN


SOURCE:NESN


SOURCE:CBS Boston


SOURCE:CBS Boston


SOURCE:CBS Boston


SOURCE:WEEI


SOURCE:WEEI


SOURCE:98.5 The Sports Hub


SOURCE:USA TODAY


SOURCE:USA TODAY


SOURCE:Yahoo! Sports


SOURCE:ProFootballTalk.com


SOURCE:NESN


SOURCE:NESN


SOURCE:NESN


SOURCE:USA TODAY


SOURCE:Patriots.com


SOURCE:Yahoo! Sports

Patsfans.com

Upcoming Opponent:
Next Up: N/A
Right Now At PatsFans.com:
Frustrating Finish
Saturday night marked a frustrating end to New England's season, which now sets up some big questions heading into the offseason.

Current Patriots Twitter Feed:

Inspired by the FA thread: Rank the AFC by team talent, minus the QB

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Deus Irae, May 30, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    65,370
    Likes Received:
    9,149
    Ratings:
    +54,851
    I think this has the potential to be either an interesting topic, or a complete bomb, and I'm curious to see how it goes. So, quick ground rules that I'd like to go by, just so we can keep things orderly:

    1. Please first rate the teams based upon talent only. If you want to add in notions of coaching, front office, schedule, the expected local temperature on November 4th, or anything else, please feel free to add it, but only after you first lay things out by talent.
    2. It's understood that the QB position is of tremendous importance. Feel free to note your take on its impact on any, or all teams, but please do so only after ranking the teams without the QB.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Useful Useful x 2
    • Funny Funny x 1
  2. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2006
    Messages:
    12,786
    Likes Received:
    5,346
    Ratings:
    +27,883
    I’d like to do this when I have some time, but I’ll point out I think a lot people rate “talent” by skill positions, highlight reels, and pro bowl selections. Does talent include depth, starters only, superstars? Or are you just asking to rank the entire roster as a whole, player-for-player?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  3. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    65,370
    Likes Received:
    9,149
    Ratings:
    +54,851
    Well, the idea was inspired by the question of which teams will be competitors, and the hostility of some towards adding the Browns. So, I think it makes sense to have an overall team grade, which you can then break down/defend by splitting things up into groups. I figured that would happen organically anyway, though perhaps in follow up posts, as someone would inevitably respond to another person's rankings by saying things along the lines of "No way! They suck at _____!", and get the ball rolling.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Love Love x 1
  4. TheRainMaker

    TheRainMaker In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2018
    Messages:
    3,842
    Likes Received:
    684
    Ratings:
    +4,606
    This is a good thread but will take some time to think about.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2006
    Messages:
    12,786
    Likes Received:
    5,346
    Ratings:
    +27,883
    This is going to be tough from all the parity, but I’ll at least start this out with the most unassailable choice, as I work backwards from bottom to top.

    16. NY Jets
     
    • Funny Funny x 14
    • Winner Winner x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • Genius Genius x 1
  6. Triumph

    Triumph Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2004
    Messages:
    17,951
    Likes Received:
    1,641
    Ratings:
    +10,623
    Browns.

    They have drafted so well even before Dorsey.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. farn

    farn Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2009
    Messages:
    8,316
    Likes Received:
    1,933
    Ratings:
    +10,422
    Even w/o Brady, NE has some very very strong units. Specifically, the DB, RB, OL are all top notch. Add a few playmakers at LB and DL and you can make the case they’d still be #1. Potentially, Cleveland could make a case, but they’ve been such a dumpster fire that it’s hard to take them seriously until they produce.

    I’ll go
    #1 NE
    #2 LAC
    #3 Texans

    *maybe Cleveland becomes something, but they could also be an OBJ weekly blowup squad.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. JayNM

    JayNM In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2014
    Messages:
    3,661
    Likes Received:
    886
    Ratings:
    +4,819
    It really just depends on the day

    on Sundays, we're the worst team ever put in the field, according to GDT
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Love Love x 1
  9. Hyped

    Hyped PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2004
    Messages:
    2,619
    Likes Received:
    1,006
    Ratings:
    +4,024
    I think it would be better to grade positional groupings like OL, WR, TE, RB, DL, LB, and Secondary....like assign points from 1 for the worst and 16 for the best then add them all up...

    Like others said, I'd need a slow day at work to do this...could be useful for my FFL research though.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  10. Flash

    Flash Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2016
    Messages:
    751
    Likes Received:
    240
    Ratings:
    +1,301
    1. LAC
    2. New England
    3. Houston
    4. Tennessee
    5. Baltimore
    6. Cleveland
    7. Kansas City
    8. Jacksonville
    9. Pittsburgh
    10. Indianapolis
    11. Buffalo
    12. Denver
    13. NYJ
    14. Cincinnati
    15. Oakland
    16. Miami
    Feel free to disagree, this is based off of my head.
     
  11. captain stone

    captain stone Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2004
    Messages:
    17,728
    Likes Received:
    2,125
    Ratings:
    +8,932
    RB : NE - Buf - NJ - Mia

    WR : too close to call, and not because they're all good either

    TE : Buf/Mia - NJ - NE

    OL : NE - Buf - NJ - Mia

    DL : NE - Buf - Mia/NJ (NJ has better starters; Mia is deeper)
    - DL seems to be the best, deepest position group among all 4 teams

    LB : NE - NJ - Buf - Mia

    CB : NE - Mia - NJ - Buf

    S : NE - Buf - Mia/NJ

    STs : NE - Buf - Mia - NJ

    Overall : NE - Buf - NJ/Mia

    EDIT: You mean the Entire AFC? I thought it was the AFCE...never mind.
     
    • Funny Funny x 4
    • Like Like x 2
  12. mosslost

    mosslost Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2009
    Messages:
    10,112
    Likes Received:
    1,087
    Ratings:
    +7,324
    "Deuce" lol
     
  13. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2006
    Messages:
    12,786
    Likes Received:
    5,346
    Ratings:
    +27,883
    @Deus Irae

    I have a few thoughts on how to tackle this this.

    1. I don't have access because I'm not a gamer, but I'd be curious to see the team Madden ratings. You could probably deduce the quarterback's value (example, looking at previous years and how big certain QBs have changed the overall grade.) Assign an approximate value that the QB position provides for each different team and then subtract it from the overall grade.

    2. Defenses are totally independent of the QB position. No reason that couldn't be a starting point as well. If you began by ranking the defenses objectively using data, you are a lot closer to the order. Then you're just adding (offense - QB), which is 10 players, rather than 21, or basically just offensive line and skill players.

    (Defense Strength)+ (o-line + skill positions)

    3. In general, non-rookie deals tend to be washes. The player value is typically cancelled out by the compensation level. That makes blue chip players in rookie contracts the most valuable assets. Assessing these players team-by-team wold be a good thing to look at.

    Hope to have some time this weekend to dive into these.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
    Last edited: May 31, 2019
  14. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    30,602
    Likes Received:
    2,391
    Ratings:
    +9,959
    I'm much higher on OAK than you are. For me, the question they have is at QB. I have them in the top half of the AFC before considering the QB.

     
    • Useful Useful x 2
  15. everlong

    everlong Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2007
    Messages:
    8,475
    Likes Received:
    1,288
    Ratings:
    +4,733
    The new catchphrase I've been hearing a lot of is a collection of talent vs a collaboration of talent. It's kind of like "length" was in hoops a decade back. You couldn't just say they have tall players any longer. It was they have good length. So instead of team building get ready for a collaboration of talent vs a collection.

    The Patriots are probably middle of the pack as a collection and to start the year might only be middle of the pack as a collaboration. The collection for most teams will dip dramatically as the lose key players thus affecting the collaboration exponentially. The Pats depth will soften this curve and the fact that they're built to be a collaboration not a collection will make them improve over the course of the years.

    It's the same team building and coaching them up we've talked about for year.

    To the OPs question if I'm ranking on purely individual talent as an aggregate I put them into groupings.

    T1: LAC, Houston, KC
    T2: NE, Pitt, Baltimore, Cleveland, Indy
    T3: Buffalo, Denver, Oakland, Tennessee, Jax
    T4: NYJ, Miami, Cincinnati
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Ring 6

    Ring 6 PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    48,650
    Likes Received:
    5,257
    Ratings:
    +6,835
    How?
    Where do you see talent on that roster?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. Ring 6

    Ring 6 PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    48,650
    Likes Received:
    5,257
    Ratings:
    +6,835
    How can KC be in a high tier of you exclude the Qb?
    Their defense is pathetic. With an average Qb the offense would be average.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. TheRainMaker

    TheRainMaker In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2018
    Messages:
    3,842
    Likes Received:
    684
    Ratings:
    +4,606
    Agree with the Chargers. Not too sure about Houston but don’t agree with KC. They have Jags almost everywhere aside from Tyrek Hill and the overpaid Frank Clark. I see them struggling big time this season. Even more so when Hill is released (And I do think he’ll get released).

    Buffalo belongs in tier 4. They are dog s**t! Oakland can join them as well.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2019
  19. Joey007

    Joey007 Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2010
    Messages:
    13,591
    Likes Received:
    3,205
    Ratings:
    +18,249
    Do acknowledge Antonio Brown. I wouldn’t want him on my team, but AB remains right up at the top amongst the most talented WR’s in football. They also still have a few high- talent interior O-linemen in Hudson, Jackson.

    But yes, after that it steeply falls off at most other positions.
     
  20. TheRainMaker

    TheRainMaker In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2018
    Messages:
    3,842
    Likes Received:
    684
    Ratings:
    +4,606
    That team is toast! I’d be shocked if Carr’s teammates still have any respect for him after he cried after taking a hit.

    He got irritated with the media denying this.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

FORUM SEARCH: CLOSE
For searches w/multiple
players add commas
(Ex: "Tom Brady, Julian Edelman")