Inside the most dysfunctional Pats season under BB

[mike_usagisan]

Achord is there though.

Maybe Judge is now “Kicking plays coordinator” or some other S-T only position?

 

[venecol]

How is he not being held accountable? He's basically been stripped of absolute personnel and staff control.

Another crap season he's gone.

Maybe the transition already started. O'Brien said to have freedom to select his own staff.

Is O'Brien working with Bill or for Bill? Hmm

 

[Rob0729]

Maybe Judge is now “Kicking plays coordinator” or some other S-T only position?

Maybe he will be coaching the waterboys.

 

[crawhammer]

Maybe the transition already started. O'Brien said to have freedom to select his own staff.

Is O'Brien working with Bill or for Bill? Hmm

Belichick said not that long ago that ultimately everything is his responsibility. I don't see Belichick ceding total control of anything to anyone as long as he's chasing the wins records.

I'm more interested in what offense O'Brien will be running next season??

 

[crawhammer]

Maybe Judge is now “Kicking plays coordinator” or some other S-T only position?

Patricia or Judge remaining on staff in any capacity at this point is just more of Belichick doing a solid for his buddies. Their collective roles, which they spectacularly butchered, have been taken by O'Brien. Send these two clowns to the failed NFL coaches scrap heap.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Maybe the transition already started. O'Brien said to have freedom to select his own staff.

Is O'Brien working with Bill or for Bill? Hmm

Kinda like the Chairman of the Board telling the CEO to hire such and such.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I believe that BB does not care anymore.

The more Kraft bad mouths BB, the less BB really cares about delivering another Lombardi. BB would love to pass Shula for all time wins @ 347, but 19 more wins looks impossible.

So BB is in who gives a s**t mode? C'mon that crazy even by your standards.

 

[VectorPrime]

Belichick said not that long ago that ultimately everything is his responsibility. I don't see Belichick ceding total control of anything to anyone as long as he's chasing the wins records.

I'm more interested in what offense O'Brien will be running next season??

Yeah but here's the thing. Bill was lying, and just setting up to get all the credit if it worked. And since it didn't work he's been dodging responsibility ever since.

Bill's biggest lie has always been his "doing what's best for the team" cop out answer for literally every single thing that's ever gone wrong which only "worked" because the team was still going 13-3 every season.

 

[Pats2000]

I trust Andrew Callahan and Karen Gureigien. I don’t think they would make up anything or report stories without fact checking and corroborating the information. So yes, I accept this story.

Should I go into the Mac Jones was calling other teams thread and see if you accepted that story based on unnamed sources without questioning anything. My guess is you did.

People only question unnamed sources when they don’t want the information to be true. Personally, I look at the people reporting the information and a lot of the time that tells me all I need to know about whether the unnamed sources are legit and trustworthy.

Besides other people in the media have alluded to the fact that things were far worse with Judge and Patricia than people knew for a while.

Lol your guess would be wrong. When information is easily verified as wrong. I take the logical approach and throw out the rest of the information that is unverifiable.

 

[Rob0729]

Lol your guess would be wrong. When information is easily verified as wrong. I take the logical approach and throw out the rest of the information that is unverifiable.

What easily verified things are wrong with this article? And not your opinion about the play action play calling. I cannot think of a single thing in this article that can be verified as wrong.

 

[crawhammer]

Yeah but here's the thing. Bill was lying, and just setting up to get all the credit if it worked. And since it didn't work he's been dodging responsibility ever since.

Not sure how he deflects blame for Patricia and Judge? He can't, right? He said as much, whether he was lying or not, he's not going to now say "don't look at me I had nothing to do with the offense, honestly 0%."

Bill's biggest lie has always been his "doing what's best for the team" cop out answer for literally every single thing that's ever gone wrong which only "worked" because the team was still going 13-3 every season.

That and "Do Your Job." The team's two mantras. Like 31 others teams couldn't dole out similarly generic and meaningless sayings. BB should combine the two into 'doing our jobs in the best interests of the team while ignoring the noise.' That's three in one! Not as catchy but comprehensive.

 

[mike_usagisan]

Patricia or Judge remaining on staff in any capacity at this point is just more of Belichick doing a solid for his buddies. Their collective roles, which they spectacularly butchered, have been taken by O'Brien. Send these two clowns to the failed NFL coaches scrap heap.

Judge’s claim to any success is special teams. Our special teams sucked last year. That’s the only way I see them keeping Judge around.

 

[Rob0729]

BTW @LFGMac10 , here are the quotes from the article about play-action that you apparently have an issue with.

Another glaring issue was the disconnect between the Patriots’ run and pass schemes, something rarely seen in New England and never with true Shanahan systems. According to Sports Info. Solutions (SIS), the Patriots called 83 outside zone or stretch run plays during the regular season compared to a league-low five bootleg, play-action passes; the most common and complementary passing scheme off those runs.

Later in the season, the Patriots executed more man-blocked runs featuring a pulling guard, but they hadn’t repped the corresponding play-action protections enough to call them in games. This limited their opportunities to exploit the most basic and consistent cheat code in offensive football. By the time they ramped up their play-action usage, Jones went 9-for-9 for 92 yards and a touchdown off play fakes in the regular-season finale at Buffalo.

The Patriots’ success off play-action and man-blocked runs (5.7 yards per carry, seventh-best) had some yearning for the old offense. What was wrong with that system?

“You tell me,” one source said. “I don’t know.”

I don't think this says what you think it says. The article never says they didn't run play action especially when Zappe played. They are saying they didn't run it when they started to switch to a more of man blocking scheme later in the season because they didn't practice it. Nothing you or anyone else has posted discredits this.

And there is only one other reference towards then cutting or reducing the calling of playaction was this snippet from the preseason:

Over time, the staff tossed most of the play-action passes. That pivot, while necessary, further alarmed those who felt concerned about reduced volume of plays. One source described a typical training camp practice under McDaniels involving the installation of 25 pages worth of fresh run plays, another 25 of passing plays and upwards of 40 pages for the offensive line learning protection schemes.

I remember there was a stat around the time of the Jones/Zappe debate that the Pats only ran play action with Jones like 12% of the time which supports this part of the story.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

It's kind of excuse making for BB to suggest he doesn't care anymore. Like if he were giving his optimum effort then the results would be better. I believe his decisions increasingly have run through his ego, stubbornness and comfortability but I also believe he thinks he's doing what's best for the team (because he equates that with what's best for him).

The all-time head coaching records are sort of a double edged sword because while BB is chasing wins he going to set the losses records as well. You could defend that with the longevity argument but longevity also accounts for the wins. By winning percentage BB is 15th in the regular season and 13th in the postseason.

These are the win/loss records BB is approaching...

Don't sleep on Reid. He's currently behind BB by 50 games on the reg season board and 62 on the combined board. If he rides Mahomes to the end he has a decent chance at passing BB on one or both of them.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

From the reporters themselves - reality was actually worse than the story, but without confirmation they didn't report stuff:

 

[Triumph]

So BB is in who gives a s**t mode? C'mon that crazy even by your standards.

Even a Homer has to wonder why BB changed the offense and had a Defensive Coordinator run it.

 

[Steve102]

The all-time head coaching records are sort of a double edged sword because while BB is chasing wins he going to set the losses records as well. You could defend that with the longevity argument but longevity also accounts for the wins. By winning percentage BB is 15th in the regular season and 13th in the postseason.

Cherry picking your stats to put Bill further down the rung.

Rk	Coach	Yrs	From	To	G	W	L	T	W-L% ▼	G > .500	Yr plyf	G plyf	W plyf	L plyf	W-L%	AvRk	BstRk	Chmp	SBwl	Conf
1	Guy Chamberlin+	6	1922	1927	81	58	16	7	.784	42	0	0	0	0		3.2	1	4	0	0
2	John Madden+	10	1969	1978	142	103	32	7	.759	71	8	16	9	7	.563	1.3	1	1	1	1
3	Vince Lombardi+	10	1959	1969	136	96	34	6	.738	62	6	10	9	1	.900	1.5	1	5	2	2
4	George Allen+	12	1966	1977	168	116	47	5	.712	69	7	9	2	7	.222	1.9	1	0	0	1
5	Matt LaFleur	4	2019	2022	66	47	19	0	.712	28	3	5	2	3	.400	1.5	1	0	0	0
6	Jim Harbaugh	4	2011	2014	64	44	19	1	.695	25	3	8	5	3	.625	1.8	1			1
7	Tommy Hughitt	5	1920	1924	56	34	15	7	.694	19	0	0	0	0		6.2	2	0	0	0
8	Blanton Collier	8	1963	1970	112	76	34	2	.691	42	5	7	3	4	.429	1.4	1	1	0	0
9	Ray Flaherty+	11	1936	1949	122	80	37	5	.684	43	6	6	2	4	.333	1.9	1	2	0	0
10	George Halas+	40	1920	1967	497	318	148	31	.682	170	8	9	6	3	.667	2.7	1	6	0	0
11	Don Shula+	33	1963	1995	490	328	156	6	.677	172	19	36	19	17	.528	1.8	1	2	2	6
12	Paul Brown+	25	1946	1975	326	213	104	9	.672	109	15	17	9	8	.529	2.0	1	7	0	0
13	Tony Dungy+	13	1996	2008	208	139	69	0	.668	70	11	19	9	10	.474	1.8	1	1	1	1
14	Jim Lee Howell	7	1954	1960	84	53	27	4	.663	26	3	4	2	2	.500	2.0	1	1
15	Bill Belichick	28	1991	2022	450	298	152	0	.662	146	19	44	31	13	.705	1.8	1	6	6

Top 10 all time wins and their win %:

1	Don Shula+	33	1963	1995	490	328	156	6	.677	172	19	36	19	17	.528	1.8	1	2	2	6
2	George Halas+	40	1920	1967	497	318	148	31	.682	170	8	9	6	3	.667	2.7	1	6	0	0
3	Bill Belichick	28	1991	2022	450	298	152	0	.662	146	19	44	31	13	.705	1.8	1	6	6	9
4	Tom Landry+	29	1960	1988	418	250	162	6	.607	88	18	36	20	16	.556	2.4	1	2	2	5
5	Andy Reid	24	1999	2022	386	247	138	1	.641	109	18	36	20	16	.556	1.8	1	1	1	3
6	Curly Lambeau+	33	1921	1953	380	226	132	22	.631	94	5	5	3	2	.600	3.2	1	6	0	0
7	Paul Brown+	25	1946	1975	326	213	104	9	.672	109	15	17	9	8	.529	2.0	1	7	0	0
8	Marty Schottenheimer	21	1984	2006	327	200	126	1	.613	74	13	18	5	13	.278	2.0	1	0	0	0
9	Chuck Noll+	23	1969	1991	342	193	148	1	.566	45	12	24	16	8	.667	2.1	1	4	4	4
10	Dan Reeves	23	1981	2003	357	190	165	2	.535	25	9	20	11	9	.550	2.7	1	0	0

His win % is right in line with his peers at the top of the chart.

 

[sb1]

From the reporters themselves - reality was actually worse than the story, but without confirmation they didn't report stuff:

I'm sure there is more.

Like why Bill would egg on a QB controversy that didn't need to exist leading up to and after the Bears game.

 

[bigballas]

The team needs a dink since Dorito Dink isn't working for the team anymore.

Bring back Jastremski. Since the OG Dink went full time in 2000 thru 2015, we've been on a unprecedented run. We know how the Joe Judge show has gone

 

[40yrpatsfan]

If how he is portraided in the article is true I don’t see how he can stay in the staff. His credibility has been ruined for all the players. Why would the ST players listen to him after this year. It would make no sense.

If Judge stays on the staff either Bill is too stupid to see those problem or it isn’t as bad as bas as some people on the organization want it to make it look. If it was that bad I can’t see Kraft agreeing in keeping Judge on the staff.

That's a big "If". Don't take the story as gospel. I'm sure parts of it are true and other parts exaggerated.