Initial Thoughts ... (Patriots lose to Arizona Cardinals)

[LetsGoPats36]

Last time JM let Brady air it out he left the field with a blown knee. JM is mentally scared..

I can't believe thats the reason.

Josh is just over-thinking this. We have 3 bona fide stars that catch passes (2 if AH is gone for a while), a very nice supplemental receiver, a decent RB group (albeit inexperienced and undersized) and a couple less reliable receiving options still capable of making plays.

When Edelman is getting about as many targets as WW, it's painfully obvious that McD is decoying himself into oblivion.

You build this offense around Tom's arm, funnel it through Wes/Gronk/AH/Lloyd and let the rest take care of itself.

Ridley has proven that he has game the last 2 weeks, but, considering our personnel, running to establish the pass is pure insanity.

If I were detached from the situation it would have been comical to watch the offense start to click the last half of the fourth quarter when balls finally started going in the direction of Gronk and Wes.

 

[Ring 6]

They deserved to win BECAUSE they scored what would have been the winning TD (admittedly, the Cardinals would have gotten the ball with an outside shot, but the odds would have been overwhelmingly against them). Your argument requires them to have the actual win in order to 'deserve' to win. I reject that notion.

Feel free to reject it. I will hold to the fact that given those circumstances, if they truly deserved to win, they would have overcome the call. The call is part of the game.

 

[Ring 6]

I agree. But he does appear to lack confidence in letting Brady pass in situations in which its obvious they will bring pressure. He has had a tough run with injuries to his quarterback I think it may of affected his decision making process.

With that said they will get it worked out. I have confidence.

When did he ever show a lack of confidence in Brady throwing? That is a bizarre opinion.

 

[Deus Irae]

Feel free to reject it. I will hold to the fact that given those circumstances, if they truly deserved to win, they would have overcome the call. The call is part of the game.

I will hold to the fact that what you call a "fact" is not one, and that it runs counter to what people mean when they talk about losing teams that deserved to win.

Your position makes absolutely no sense at all in context of the discussion, so I'll leave it at that.

 

[1%er]

I can't believe thats the reason.

Josh is just over-thinking this. We have 3 bona fide stars that catch passes (2 if AH is gone for a while), a very nice supplemental receiver, a decent RB group (albeit inexperienced and undersized) and a couple less reliable receiving options still capable of making plays.

When Edelman is getting about as many targets as WW, it's painfully obvious that McD is decoying himself into oblivion.

You build this offense around Tom's arm, funnel it through Wes/Gronk/AH/Lloyd and let the rest take care of itself.

Ridley has proven that he has game the last 2 weeks, but, considering our personnel, running to establish the pass when you have TFB and this all star slate of receiving options is pure insanity.

If I were detached from the situation it would have been comical to watch the offense start to click the last half of the fourth quarter when balls finally started going in the direction of Gronk and Wes.

I agree 10000%. JM has a identity crisis going on. We need to establish are passing game compliment it with the run, build a solid lead and then go pound it to kill the clock.

Right now it looks like the Jets game plan.

 

[jsull87]

In no particular order:

1. The Pats didn't deserve to win today. Too many mistakes, too many blown opportunities. FGs instead of TDs. Blocked punt. Missed 2-point conversion. Missed game-winning FG. Just not good enough.

2. The refs stunk and may have changed the course of the game, but that doesn't change the fact that the Pats didn't deserve to win.

3. Arizona has a legitimate defense, and they dominated our OL. Scar has some work to do before next Sunday night.

4. The special teams cost us 10 points with the blocked punt and the missed GF. Scott O'Brien has some owrk to do before next Sunday night.

5. The defense was awesome, and it's a shame the rest of the team let them down. They held Arizona to 245 yards overall, and gave up 20 points only because of the blocked punt. They made several big plays, including one in crunch time (when people were deriding them for "letting the team down once again") which gave the team an opportunity to win the game.

6. One loss means nothing. Especially a non-conference loss. The 2003 SB team lost it's opener 31-0. We've seen time and time again that the teams that start the season looking unbeatable are seldom the ones hoisting the Lombardi Trophy at the end of the season. This is a young team, and I'm much more interested in how they finish than how they start.

7. With that in mind, the overall focus and intensity was poor. The team seemed flat and out of sync, and just didn't play with the same intensity and energy as last week, except for the defense. I suspect we'll see a different performance next week, but the lack of focus and consistency is somewhat concerning.

8. The Packers and Giants are 1-1, and both have a ton of problems. The Saints are 0-2. The Ravens lost to Philadelphia and gave up almost 500 yards of total offense. So one of the might Pats or the might Ravens will start their season 1-2 after next week's debacle. But I wouldn't count the loser out of the AFC race.

9. The game day threads are an embarrassment. Every missed play turns into hand wringing, epithets being hurled at the players involved, and cries of doom. Some "fans" seem to take delight in seeing the team fail. We're so spoiled by the sustained success of this team.

Always sucks to lose especially when we came back and had a chance to win but lets be honest with ourselves, in the clutch moments the pats came up short on most occasions this game. Lloyd dropping passes for 1st downs when we are on a role, welker dropping a 1st down, run game being stopped when they knew we were running, some misses from TB, I actually don't mind what the defense did in the spots they were put in, only thing i would say is our pass rush dropped off as the game went on.

Yes i thing there was holding and PI all day especially on Gronk but as mayo said the pats did not play or coach well enough today to deserve to win this game.

Hopefully this can be a wake up call and we can put it together for next week... Always hate starting my Mondays here with a loss

 

[1%er]

When did he ever show a lack of confidence in Brady throwing? That is a bizarre opinion.

I think we have a misunderstanding. What I mean is he lacks confidence in having Brady drop back in situations in which the other team is going to bring a lot of pressure.

My implication is that he lacks confidence in the protection and fears Brady being injured. Not lacking confidence in Brady throwing.

 

[patsfan13]

Well they go 'lucky with the fumble late in the game. Great hit by Spikes and heads up by VW to secure the ball. They cam out with some nice throws to put themselves in a good position. After the holding call by Gronk negating a touchdown/long gain by Woody they still got a 1st down with 4 sec left on the clock.

IMO the coaches got locked in on the FG too early. Especially after the false start pena;ity pushed them back 5 yards they gave up another 5 yards making a32 year FG into a 42 year FG. They should have trusted Brady to make a pass or throw the ball away They still would be able to run the clock down in any event.

Not a kicking expert, the hold was at a 30 def angle, was there a problem with the hold?

Brady didn't have a very good game for him.

The D played well enough to win.

 

[stcjones]

Sure we played like crap and should have won this one, but...

It's one game.

ONE game...

Big matchup next week.

But this is a game you COULD NOT AFFORD to lose.......and especially not afford to lose THIS WAY.....against Kevin Freaking Kolb and the Cardinals????......and AT HOME??????Not that any team is a guarantee or a lock or anything....but sh#t, you HAVE TO take advantage of your home games....especially against a team that is NOT IN THE AFC...... This was a terrible failure that could end up affecting this team when it comes time to make the playoffs. It also says alot about this team and the coaches. Not trying to start the sky is falling bullcrap....but this says alot about the OC, Brady, the OL and the entire offense as a unit. When was the last time we struggled THIS BAD against a lesser talented opponent?? I know it is very similiar to Buffalo and we recovered after that.....but this shows alot of holes and problems. IF we (Pats) are floundering and struggling this much against the Ravens....or Houston down the line.....pull the curtains...the party is over. Sorry but I am still in shock that we lost at home to a team that should not have beaten us like that.....

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

When they ran the no huddle and put the calling in Brady's hands we played well. So that leads me to believe it is simply JM struggling with his identity as a play caller. He wants to have a strong running game and unfortunately last week we won with that approach and this week we lost with it.

Correct me if I am wrong but JM last season with Brady was the season he blew out his knee. Combine that with Bradford missing most of last season with injuries due to a terrible offensive line. My thought is that JM is scared to lose his quarterback to a serious injury and is being overprotective.

But its obvious by the last quarter Brady still can sling it.

Not a bad observation. The no huddle has been a nice fall back for the Patriots when they have otherwise struggled offensively.

The one thing that sets the Patriots apart from many other teams over the BB/TB era is its view that scoring points is how you win -- not how you score the points. Pass a lot or run a lot or a combo of both.....just score enough points. It will be interesting to see if the Patriots end up about 50/50 most every week (which is not a problem provided they win most of them).

 

[stcjones]

But in all honesty, WHEN was the last time you saw the Pats "limp" it up the middle to make sure they stayed in FG range like they did today? Even the announcers were saying something like "Well you don't see BB and Brady plow it in the middle of the line on several plays and go for the FG" here......very interesting. Well obviously if Gost hit the FG Pats would have looked intelligent......but by NOT going harder/more aggressively to move the ball closer, the pats looked scared and weak. Not like the "old" Pats from 2001-2004...thats for sure

Well they go 'lucky with the fumble late in the game. Great hit by Spikes and heads up by VW to secure the ball. They cam out with some nice throws to put themselves in a good position. After the holding call by Gronk negating a touchdown/long gain by Woody they still got a 1st down with 4 sec left on the clock.

IMO the coaches got locked in on the FG too early. Especially after the false start pena;ity pushed them back 5 yards they gave up another 5 yards making a32 year FG into a 42 year FG. They should have trusted Brady to make a pass or throw the ball away They still would be able to run the clock down in any event.

Not a kicking expert, the hold was at a 30 def angle, was there a problem with the hold?

Brady didn't have a very good game for him.

The D played well enough to win.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

But this is a game you COULD NOT AFFORD to lose.......and especially not afford to lose THIS WAY.....against Kevin Freaking Kolb and the Cardinals????......and AT HOME??????Not that any team is a guarantee or a lock or anything....but sh#t, you HAVE TO take advantage of your home games....especially against a team that is NOT IN THE AFC...... This was a terrible failure that could end up affecting this team when it comes time to make the playoffs. It also says alot about this team and the coaches. Not trying to start the sky is falling bullcrap....but this says alot about the OC, Brady, the OL and the entire offense as a unit. When was the last time we struggled THIS BAD against a lesser talented opponent?? I know it is very similiar to Buffalo and we recovered after that.....but this shows alot of holes and problems. IF we (Pats) are floundering and struggling this much against the Ravens....or Houston down the line.....pull the curtains...the party is over. Sorry but I am still in shock that we lost at home to a team that should not have beaten us like that.....

That just is not accurate. The games you can most afford to lose is NFC opponents. And the moral implications regarding the type of loss/who the opponent was is not particularly critical. The fact that it is a home loss is where we agree.

Fyi, the Cards may be one of our toughest opponents this year. Not likely yet who is a strong team and who isn't is yet to be determined. So the 'we lost to the lowly Cards' is not applicable with a sufficient degree of certainty at this stage of the season.

 

[Ring 6]

I will hold to the fact that what you call a "fact" is not one, and that it runs counter to what people mean when they talk about losing teams that deserved to win.

Your position makes absolutely no sense at all in context of the discussion, so I'll leave it at that.

And yours that there was no responsibility to overcome a penalty call and finish out the game makes absolutely no sense either, so it appears we should just agree to disagree.

 

[Ring 6]

But in all honesty, WHEN was the last time you saw the Pats "limp" it up the middle to make sure they stayed in FG range like they did today? Even the announcers were saying something like "Well you don't see BB and Brady plow it in the middle of the line on several plays and go for the FG" here......very interesting. Well obviously if Gost hit the FG Pats would have looked intelligent......but by NOT going harder/more aggressively to move the ball closer, the pats looked scared and weak. Not like the "old" Pats from 2001-2004...thats for sure

This is silly. There were 45 seconds and no timeouts left. A penalty had just moved the ball back. A sack would have ended the game. Another holding penalty would have made it a 52 yarder. It was the right thing to do, and the only way anyone even talks about it is if you miss a 90% shot on a FG.

 

[Ring 6]

I think we have a misunderstanding. What I mean is he lacks confidence in having Brady drop back in situations in which the other team is going to bring a lot of pressure.

My implication is that he lacks confidence in the protection and fears Brady being injured. Not lacking confidence in Brady throwing.

But when did he ever do that? You sound like we run draws on 3rd and 10.

 

[patsfan13]

This is silly. There were 45 seconds and no timeouts left. A penalty had just moved the ball back. A sack would have ended the game. Another holding penalty would have made it a 52 yarder. It was the right thing to do, and the only way anyone even talks about it is if you miss a 90% shot on a FG.

Sorry FG's over 40 yard aren't 90%.

They were 10 years closer before BB decided to shut it down, they had the Cardnials back on their heels.

If they gained another 10 yards then shut it down.

 

[1%er]

But when did he ever do that? You sound like we run draws on 3rd and 10.

We did. We also ran a toss on 3 and 7.

 

[jah]

But when did he ever do that? You sound like we run draws on 3rd and 10.

Do you just turn off the TV every third down? Because that actually happens multiple times per game.

 

[Ring 6]

Do you just turn off the TV every third down? Because that actually happens multiple times per game.

What game were you watching?

 

[LetsGoPats36]

Do you just turn off the TV every third down? Because that actually happens multiple times per game.

Post of the day.