Initial Thoughts ... (Patriots lose to Arizona Cardinals)

[Deus Irae]

Actually that is factual as your statement isn't quantifiable as well as the real refs in fact have made poor or ticky tack or borderline calls late in the game.

The post is actually your take. And while I don't necessarily disagree with your opinion, I just don't think it can be determined with sufficient certainty.

If you want 100% certainty, talk to God. In football, the only thing that is 100% is the win/loss record.

 

[Ring 6]

Unless you are seeing the game with Andy Johnson's eyes, your personal observations are of little import.

Right because you can gauge effort, focus and intensity of the players from your TV

 

[MoLewisrocks]

See, here we part company. It's one thing to dismiss calls that happen early. It's another to dismiss calls that happen at the end of the game.

Then again, I don't consider officials to be these officials to be uncontrollable factors. I consider them to be completely controllable. A real NFL official wouldn't have made that call.

Mike Pereira?@MikePereira

For those that are asking about the Gronkowski call. Technicially it is (correct) but I've seen worse that don't get called.


And Mike hates the replacements more than you do. He'd have loved to say incorrect call, but he couldn't. So he did the reverse of what he usually does when actually covering for the regulars when they don't make it.

Gronk had two penalties on that last short possession. You can't keep backing up and hanging your hopes on a last second FG of more than 40. Especially not with this kicker.

 

[mgteich]

The defense was awesome.

The running game was better than we've had in years. Ridley was also out there as part of the passing game.

The special teams was bad. Giving up a blocked punt near your own goal-line and missing a FG at the end is just awful.

The passing game let us down. They dropped passes and apparently didn't get open enough to score 20 points.

Josh didn't have a great day, but he can't catch the passes.

 

[naF staP]

"One of the surprising aspects of the Patriots' home-opening loss to the Cardinals was Wes Welker serving as the No. 3 receiver. Julian Edelman played over Welker in most two-receiver sets.

Including penalties and a two-point conversion, Edelman was on for 75 snaps, while Welker played 63, according to ESPNBoston.com charting."

----------------

As I said last week, they are doing the same thing to Welker as they did to Moss!! What a mistake, I don't like it! This game planning is horrible. Even though Welker had a better stat day then Edelman, it is clear that the Patriots are not adding Welker to the game plan these first two games like they did last season. Why? Are the Patriots really but hurt that Welker wants a longer term deal then the Patriots are willing to do?



Patriots better put their mind/control games with players aside and get back to what wins games. Welker needs to be involved all the freaking time, he is what opens up the run game and the deep ball. This makes me sick. Horrible game plan by the Patriots!! If they want to win games 83 needs to be in there and being targeted more then he is, plain freaking as simple as that!!

 

[Deus Irae]

But they still had the opportunity to win the game despite the call...

That's a lousy response, though. They'd already won. You're now essentially punishing them (in your argument) for not winning again.

 

[Deus Irae]

Mike Pereira?@MikePereira

For those that are asking about the Gronkowski call. Technicially it is (correct) but I've seen worse that don't get called.


And Mike hates the replacements more than you do. He'd have loved to say incorrect call, but he couldn't. So he did the reverse of what he usually does when actually covering for the regulars when they don't make it.

Gronk had two penalties on that last short possession. You can't keep backing up and hanging your hopes on a last second FG of more than 40. Especially not with this kicker.

It was a horrendous call, and I don't give a damn about Pereira hating the replacements or not.

 

[Ring 6]

No I get it, you take the internet way too seriously:singing:

No clue what that means, but your point was extremely off the mark.
Are you saying you do not make comments that you feel accountable to? Thats not an internet thing, thats a character thing.

 

[1%er]

Unless you are seeing the game with Andy Johnson's eyes, your personal observations are of little import.

When they ran the no huddle and put the calling in Brady's hands we played well. So that leads me to believe it is simply JM struggling with his identity as a play caller. He wants to have a strong running game and unfortunately last week we won with that approach and this week we lost with it.

Correct me if I am wrong but JM last season with Brady was the season he blew out his knee. Combine that with Bradford missing most of last season with injuries due to a terrible offensive line. My thought is that JM is scared to lose his quarterback to a serious injury and is being overprotective.

But its obvious by the last quarter Brady still can sling it.

 

[PatsGirl2011]

"One of the surprising aspects of the Patriots' home-opening loss to the Cardinals was Wes Welker serving as the No. 3 receiver. Julian Edelman played over Welker in most two-receiver sets.

Including penalties and a two-point conversion, Edelman was on for 75 snaps, while Welker played 63, according to ESPNBoston.com charting."

----------------

As I said last week, they are doing the same thing to Welker as they did to Moss!! What a mistake, I don't like it! This game planning is horrible. Even though Welker had a better stat day then Edelman, it is clear that the Patriots are not adding Welker to the game plan these first two games like they did last season. Why? Are the Patriots really but hurt that Welker wants a longer term deal then the Patriots are willing to do?



Patriots better put their mind/control games with players aside and get back to what wins games. Welker needs to be involved all the freaking time, he is what opens up the run game and the deep ball. This makes me sick. Horrible game plan by the Patriots!! If they want to win games 83 needs to be in there and being targeted more then he is, plain freaking as simple as that!!

Exactly..Things happened when Welker was on the field. If they think Brandon lloyd and Gronk are enough, they are mistaken. Lloyd, while good, is not a dominant #1 receiver.

 

[Ring 6]

That's a lousy response, though. They'd already won. You're now essentially punishing them (in your argument) for not winning again.

Not really. I'm saying to truly 'deserve to win' they could have overcome the call.
Again, my point is that I am disagreeing with the opinion that they DIDNT deserve to win, but by the same token being fully deserving would mean closing it out. Thats just my take. There isn't a world of difference between what we are saying.

 

[LetsGoPats36]

I'm sure it's been broached plenty here already, I just need a little vent.

WHAT THE **** IS UP WITH YOUR PLAYCALLING/PERSONNEL, JOSH?

3rd and short near the opponent's 30 while we're trailing late in the game... Hmm.. What to dial up... How about a toss sweep to the smallest guy on our roster?



We have Welker on the roster... Hmm... Let's see if we can't limit his touches in favor of Edelman. Remember how well it worked out when Moss was a decoy 90% of the time?



About 3 combined plays designed for Gronk and Wes through 3.5 quarters... 8 carries for Woodhead...

 

[LuthierJr]

Sure we played like crap and should have won this one, but...

It's one game.

ONE game...

Big matchup next week.

 

[Ring 6]

When they ran the no huddle and put the calling in Brady's hands we played well. So that leads me to believe it is simply JM struggling with his identity as a play caller. He wants to have a strong running game and unfortunately last week we won with that approach and this week we lost with it.

Correct me if I am wrong but JM last season with Brady was the season he blew out his knee. Combine that with Bradford missing most of last season with injuries due to a terrible offensive line. My thought is that JM is scared to lose his quarterback to a serious injury and is being overprotective.

But its obvious by the last quarter Brady still can sling it.

There are simply too many variables (matchups, execution, game situation, injuries, score, execution in practice, game plan, etc) and too small a sample to judge the playcalling.
The greatest play call in the world fails if you don't block, and any play call is great if it is flawlessly executed.

 

[1%er]

I'm sure it's been broached plenty here already, I just need a little vent.

WHAT THE **** IS UP WITH YOUR PLAYCALLING/PERSONNEL, JOSH?

3rd and short near the opponent's 30 while we're trailing late in the game... Hmm.. What to dial up... How about a toss sweep to the smallest guy on our roster?



We have Welker on the roster... Hmm... Let's see if we can't limit his touches in favor of Edelman. Remember how well it worked out when Moss was a decoy 90% of the time?



About 3 combined plays designed for Gronk and Wes through 3.5 quarters... 8 carries for Woodhead...

Last time JM let Brady air it out he left the field with a blown knee. JM is mentally scared..

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Mike Pereira?@MikePereira

For those that are asking about the Gronkowski call. Technicially it is (correct) but I've seen worse that don't get called.


And Mike hates the replacements more than you do. He'd have loved to say incorrect call, but he couldn't. So he did the reverse of what he usually does when actually covering for the regulars when they don't make it.

Gronk had two penalties on that last short possession. You can't keep backing up and hanging your hopes on a last second FG of more than 40. Especially not with this kicker.

A quote from ESPN Boston, Ghost "had made his previous 37 fourth-quarter field goal attempts". So what do you base "not with this kicker" on? Not to say you are wrong but I am curious if you have a stat that says Ghost kicks poor enough in situations like this?

 

[1%er]

There are simply too many variables (matchups, execution, game situation, injuries, score, execution in practice, game plan, etc) and too small a sample to judge the playcalling.
The greatest play call in the world fails if you don't block, and any play call is great if it is flawlessly executed.

I agree. But he does appear to lack confidence in letting Brady pass in situations in which its obvious they will bring pressure. He has had a tough run with injuries to his quarterback I think it may of affected his decision making process.

With that said they will get it worked out. I have confidence.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

I'm sure it's been broached plenty here already, I just need a little vent.

WHAT THE **** IS UP WITH YOUR PLAYCALLING/PERSONNEL, JOSH?

3rd and short near the opponent's 30 while we're trailing late in the game... Hmm.. What to dial up... How about a toss sweep to the smallest guy on our roster?



We have Welker on the roster... Hmm... Let's see if we can't limit his touches in favor of Edelman. Remember how well it worked out when Moss was a decoy 90% of the time?



About 3 combined plays designed for Gronk and Wes through 3.5 quarters... 8 carries for Woodhead...

Fyi, I believe the amount of plays JE and WW were in on favored JE but it was not a huge gulf between the two. I also read WW had 11 balls thrown his way and JE had 6.
With AH gone it is logical to assume JE would be in on a lot more plays....but it is surprising to see it more than WW. However, 11 balls thrown WW way says to me he was targeted often (that's almost 25% of TB's attempts). With WW catching 5 out of those 11, either Brady was off with WW, the Cards were focusing on WW, or WW was not finding enough space. That is a poor comp% to WW.

 

[Deus Irae]

Not really. I'm saying to truly 'deserve to win' they could have overcome the call.
Again, my point is that I am disagreeing with the opinion that they DIDNT deserve to win, but by the same token being fully deserving would mean closing it out. Thats just my take. There isn't a world of difference between what we are saying.

They deserved to win BECAUSE they scored what would have been the winning TD (admittedly, the Cardinals would have gotten the ball with an outside shot, but the odds would have been overwhelmingly against them). They don't need to score again to deserve the win. Your argument requires them to have the actual win in order to 'deserve' to win. I reject that notion.

And, for the record, this isn't a homer, or inconsistent, position for me. This happened in that SD game with Hochuli, and I had the same position there.

 

[stcjones]

Originally Posted by MoLewisrocks
I agree, nice rundown, although I'd say the defense deserved to win. Offense probably did too. Not so sure the offensive coaching staff and FO did. This looked like a team unable to adapt or adjust on the fly to the loss of one player. Might want to rethink their strategy and reshuffle the roster because he's going to be gone for a while.

No offense....but it you thought that the Offense DESERVED to win the game today....you must have been watching a different game. The OL, OC playcalling, and the entire offense played like crap overall IMHO....Brady was off, the OL could barely protect against the Cardinals, and the playcalling by MCd was one of the worst I have ever seen in my many years as a Patriots fan.....Gronk rarely being seen until the 4th quarter? Welker being invisible almost to the 3rd quarter to the best of my recall.......HOW MANY QB draws to the RB....or delayed handoffs to the RB???????? HORRIBLE overall offensive performance today....absolutely HORRID. Sorry, you can put sugar frosting on that horsesh#t....it was plain old stinky horsesh$t....