Improving the left side of the line

[One-If-By-Sea]

I’m confused.

You say Marrone and crew should know what to do,

Marrone and crew say they’re keeping Campbell at LT and won’t move him to guard.

Then you say suggesting Campbell to LG is ok, shouldn’t be heresy.

Do you really trust Marrone and crew? Seems to me you were just talking out of both sides of your mouth in those two statements. You’re really confusing me.

Since the Super Bowl I am not familiar with any comments by Doug Marrone or his coaches. Can you provide a link for your comment in bold?

 

[BennyBledsoe]

They clearly need to get a future going at RT and C. Moses is probably running on fumes and Bradbury is only a stopgap as he plays out the last few years of his career. I'd love to get young guys in and rolling at both their positions.

 

[dliverey44]

Since the Super Bowl I am not familiar with any comments by Doug Marrone or his coaches. Can you provide a link for your comment in bold?

Vrable made a comment about WC staying at LT. I would be super interested to see Marrone's notes on the OL to try and rank them. I really wonder if he sees anything in Wallace or Bryant and what he thinks of Brown.

 

[Zuma]

If the Pats sign Linderbaum, Bradbury is gone.

Ok but then you say in the next sentance Wilson is not the answer at LG without a mention that those close to the team think Wilson would be a better fit at C. Backup is an option.

That also doesn't solve the issue of LG where Wilson is not the answer.

Brown is a superior LG then Wilson. If you saw my post you would see that it was my "OPINION" of a depth chart for the OL.

I don't think that Wallace is long for the team. Which is disappointing. But I think he'll be given TC to show what he can do at G.

Wallace bought in to a **** OL coaching squad in 2024...as a rookie at the wrong position. For ****s sake give him more then a minute to play a position that he is actually suited for.

 

[n1997y]

Since the Super Bowl I am not familiar with any comments by Doug Marrone or his coaches. Can you provide a link for your comment in bold?

Sorry. Vrabel said it. I consider Vrabel as part of Marrone’s crew. I don’t expect Marrone will disagree with his boss, in fact I’d be surprised if Vrabes said that publicly without knowing Marrone is on board with it.

Here’s your link: Mike Vrabel: Patriots to keep Will Campbell at left tackle

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Sorry. Vrabel said it. I consider Vrabel as part of Marrone’s crew. I don’t expect Marrone will disagree with his boss, in fact I’d be surprised if Vrabes said that publicly without knowing Marrone is on board with it.
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Here’s your link: Mike Vrabel: Patriots to keep Will Campbell at left tackle

Thanks. I had not seen that. Vrabel has voiced his support for Campbell which might be good. I think it is better in business to always look at the options, but the NFL is different because the product is players (people). The coaches know better than me but I would have preferred them sitting down as a group and discussing it before making a decision. But that might be me.

I seem to remember BB saying they always discussed every player as a group at the end of every season. That seems like the right approach to me. No favorites, discuss everyone, and then let everyone think on it as FA approaches.

 

[Zuma]

Will Campbell hit his rookie wall months ago and still was a warrior with an MCL issue. The guy is a ****ing hero at LT this season. People need to get a grip.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Will Campbell hit his rookie wall months ago and still was a warrior with an MCL issue. The guy is a ****ing hero at LT this season. People need to get a grip.

The guy is a hero? Campbell did his job for which he gets millions. A multi- million dollar salary guy doing his job is now a hero?

 

[n1997y]

Thanks. I had not seen that. Vrabel has voiced his support for Campbell which might be good. I think it is better in business to always look at the options, but the NFL is different because the product is players (people). The coaches know better than me but I would have preferred them sitting down as a group and discussing it before making a decision. But that might be me.

I seem to remember BB saying they always discussed every player as a group at the end of every season. That seems like the right approach to me. No favorites, discuss everyone, and then let everyone think on it as FA approaches.

NP. Your posts are always good. Always happy to share information and good convo even, or especially, if we don’t always agree.

I figure Campbell has to get healthy and have a full offseason in the program, and see where he is next season, before giving up on him as LT of the future. See where he is next season and then evaluate if a course correction or position change is indicated. My big concern is whether his MCL will hamper his growth in the offseason program. Hope not. He should be able to do upper body work, and of course film work, despite his knee injury.

I agree, think they should definitely go through evaluating every player as part of the postseason wrap, and then also do the same on all their game plans, and all the coaches.

 

[n1997y]

The guy is a hero? Campbell did his job for which he gets millions. A multi- million dollar salary guy doing his job is now a hero?

If anything he should’ve known the degree to which his performance was hampered and tapped out. He and his coaches clearly understated the degree to which his performance was degraded.

 

[stephens44]

It really does not matter what you want to see. None of it happened or will happen. Campbell is not moving to LG and we are not drafting a LT in the top 100.

True, Vrabel nipped that idea right away, probably a good thing. Hopefully Campbell's technique issues can be solved this offseason/training camp and everything is all good. There's multiple current and former veteran OT's saying that its very possible. I hope so.

 

[DaBruinz]

Ok but then you say in the next sentance Wilson is not the answer at LG without a mention that those close to the team think Wilson would be a better fit at C. Backup is an option.

Zuma - I was specifically address your depth chart. You know. Where you list Wilson as a LG and not as a Center.

Brown is a superior LG then Wilson. If you saw my post you would see that it was my "OPINION" of a depth chart for the OL.

Ben Brown looked to be an upgrade. How much of an upgrade over Wilson is debatable. Normally, I'd refer to PFF to get his sanps/sacks allowed/QB hits/ hurries, but they have Ben Brown's stats completely fubared. I also don't know that Brown would be a competent starter at LG full time.

Wallace bought in to a **** OL coaching squad in 2024...as a rookie at the wrong position. For ****s sake give him more then a minute to play a position that he is actually suited for.

You didn't even read what I stated. As such, You're reaction is ridiculous. What part of "I think he'll be given TC to show what he can do at G" is me NOT giving him time? Seriously. He'll have had a full year under this staff PLUS 2 off-seasons to show what he can do. I've been one of the people who has supported Wallace. How can you sit there and say he hasn't been disappointing to this point?

 

[DaBruinz]

The guy is a hero? Campbell did his job for which he gets millions. A multi- million dollar salary guy doing his job is now a hero?

I took it as Zuma referring to the fact that Will Campbell decided to forego surgery, came back and played numerous games with an injured knee. There is no telling how the Pats would have done if Lowe had played LT in the play-offs.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Will Campbell hit his rookie wall months ago and still was a warrior with an MCL issue. The guy is a ****ing hero at LT this season. People need to get a grip.

Maybe he should have tapped out per @n1997y ... but that's a rare thing for elite athletes to do... and whatever we think after the fact, he's a 23-year-old kid picked at the top of the draft who's won all his life. It's a tough ask for him to voluntarily tap out.

Mainly, I agree that people are going apesh*t on him. "Heroism" might have been (or might not have been) a decrement, given the performance in his absence. Who do people think we had that was going to make the Sea. front 4 look like just another D? Who would have kept Maye's jersey clean? Did Maye get a lot of drop back time in Campbell's absence? Who did we see on the order of the Seattle D when Campbell was not in?

Not trying to prove that he had a great game. I'm just illustrating he might have been either the best option or not by far the worst. We don't know how this Sea. D would have performed against the next man up.

We also failed to punish Sea. for the plays when they did blitz, so they did it when they wanted. What quick intermediate throws did we have, other than screens, to make them pay on the unusually (for Sea.) high proportion of downs when they blitzed? Even given the protection issue, there's Maye holding onto the ball, then the only thing worse, Maye not holding onto the ball. We saw in one drive what we needed to be, but it was nipped in the bud. Were we just a little mental toughness away from making it look like a game, by scoring instead of giving the Seattle O and D, respectively, easy scores after the Hollins TD?

Sorry about the counterfactuals, but at 19-7, what if we just took what they gave us and didn't give them easy scores? There's a big swing in about 1 minute of football - 10 points on turnovers. Failure's never one man's problem but the team. Call that 1 minute the Maye minute or the Campbell minute or whoever's, but it's the late key to this game.

Prior to that point, if we found the right stuff to follow up the Hollins TD with another drive, it's a different game. Even better, maybe don't start the game with 0 points for three quarters.

Don't get me wrong, Seattle pwned the Pats in this game. But the "rout" is overplayed. We need big upgrades to have a shot at even getting back, and my God, Campbell looked wretched.

But piling on is easy, and assuming he can't recover and he'll never play up to his draft position is stupid.

Unfortunately, that puts us in a wait and see posture, not a satisfying resolution to a fan GM challenge to win the last game we lost.

What's Campbell look like against better D-lines, fully recovered? We'll find out next year... and he'll have his first year under his belt. Let's not trade him for a 6th and a case of Heinekin just yet.

 

[hornetfb85]

While it is perfectly fine to discuss, as this is a discussion board, Will Campbell is going nowhere. Whether you like it or not…whether it’s right or wrong…Will Campbell is our LT. We need to focus in on the other 4 spots.
LG: Need a solid veteran, not a rookie.
C: Wilson/Bradbury camp battle
RG: Veey likely Onwenu. Could make a change
RT: Likely Moses. Draft a starting caliber replacement

 

[ViperGTS]

True, Vrabel nipped that idea right away, probably a good thing. Hopefully Campbell's technique issues can be solved this offseason/training camp and everything is all good. There's multiple current and former veteran OT's saying that its very possible. I hope so.

Or they don't want to do any more damage to Campbell. He was just good this season when healthy against decent competition. Then he got hurt and was flat out bad.

If they find a better option, 4th pick be damned they have to do it.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

I think I'm really settling in on Connor McGovern and Bitonio as targets. Ideally, you draft a RT highly that can take over for Moses in 2027 but also have some type of projection at LT too in case Campbell faulters again. Cut Bradbury to make the cap space for one of the signings and then dip into existing cap space for the other.

LT - Will Campbell
LG - Joel Bitionio (1 year stop gap vet presence)
C - Connor McGovern
RG - Mike Onwenu (no extension)
RT - Morgan Moses

For the depth spots you have Ben Brown, Jared Wilson, the rookie swing tackle I mentioned and then Wallace/Bryant/any other signings like bringing Munford or Lowe back/draft picks fight for the last spot.

Jared Wilson may project better at C than LG, but he really struggled last year. Bitonio would be a 1 year stop gap and Onwenu would be in the last year of his deal too. McGovern has experience at both G spots so the idea would be that next year (or sooner of play warrants it) you kick him out to either G spot and Wilson takes over at Center. This just prevents you from relying on someone who was pretty bad this year to take an immediate leap to being a good starter.

If you hit on the draft pick OT, that's the replacement for Moses since his contract is structured that he'll probably be cut ahead of 2027. I mentioned Wilson replaces one of the Guards via McGovern kicking out. So next year you go into the offseason needing to sign or draft one long term answer at either Guard spot.

In the mean time, Campbell/Bitionio/McGovern/Onwenu/Moses is a big OL (all at or over about 320 lbs) so you can try to build a cohesive identity of power schemes. Compliment it by replacing Diggs with a true X receiver like Alec Pierce (slide Boutte from X to Z) and go with a better move TE than Hooper (Likely). That gives you a really cohesive offensive identity, IMO. 2 TE sets with power blocking but a dynamic receiving/move TE and 2 outside WRs that can challenge down the field with Maye's deep ball prowess.

 

[stelfans]

I think I'm really settling in on Connor McGovern and Bitonio as targets. Ideally, you draft a RT highly that can take over for Moses in 2027 but also have some type of projection at LT too in case Campbell faulters again. Cut Bradbury to make the cap space for one of the signings and then dip into existing cap space for the other.

LT - Will Campbell
LG - Joel Bitionio (1 year stop gap vet presence)
C - Connor McGovern
RG - Mike Onwenu (no extension)
RT - Morgan Moses

For the depth spots you have Ben Brown, Jared Wilson, the rookie swing tackle I mentioned and then Wallace/Bryant/any other signings like bringing Munford or Lowe back/draft picks fight for the last spot.

Jared Wilson may project better at C than LG, but he really struggled last year. Bitonio would be a 1 year stop gap and Onwenu would be in the last year of his deal too. McGovern has experience at both G spots so the idea would be that next year (or sooner of play warrants it) you kick him out to either G spot and Wilson takes over at Center. This just prevents you from relying on someone who was pretty bad this year to take an immediate leap to being a good starter.

If you hit on the draft pick OT, that's the replacement for Moses since his contract is structured that he'll probably be cut ahead of 2027. I mentioned Wilson replaces one of the Guards via McGovern kicking out. So next year you go into the offseason needing to sign or draft one long term answer at either Guard spot.

In the mean time, Campbell/Bitionio/McGovern/Onwenu/Moses is a big OL (all at or over about 320 lbs) so you can try to build a cohesive identity of power schemes. Compliment it by replacing Diggs with a true X receiver like Alec Pierce (slide Boutte from X to Z) and go with a better move TE than Hooper (Likely). That gives you a really cohesive offensive identity, IMO. 2 TE sets with power blocking but a dynamic receiving/move TE and 2 outside WRs that can challenge down the field with Maye's deep ball prowess.

Thats the ideal plan.
Worst case scenario they only sign one and have to draft a guard (which i would still do anyway) as competition for Wilson.
Its a bit older than i think they would like it to be, but hopefully they learned that lesson this year. But anyway that line is head/shoulders above what we saw this year.

 

[skinnydog]

Thanks. I had not seen that. Vrabel has voiced his support for Campbell which might be good. I think it is better in business to always look at the options, but the NFL is different because the product is players (people). The coaches know better than me but I would have preferred them sitting down as a group and discussing it before making a decision. But that might be me.

I seem to remember BB saying they always discussed every player as a group at the end of every season. That seems like the right approach to me. No favorites, discuss everyone, and then let everyone think on it as FA approaches.

Let’s say the Pats, want to explore LT options this offseason. Whether it’s a trade or free agent signing, the last thing they would do is admit it thereby raising the price to obtain a new LT.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I took it as Zuma referring to the fact that Will Campbell decided to forego surgery, came back and played numerous games with an injured knee. There is no telling how the Pats would have done if Lowe had played LT in the play-offs.

I agree. I would say that Campbell was loyal, brave, committed, etc. I would not call Campbell a hero.