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I'm fine with our "skill" players on offense.

2021 Patriots Season:
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Sep 12th

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patfanken

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I’m not fine. At all. Severe lack of talent, especially long term we could be in big trouble when Brady retires.

Could have rebuilt the offense with great players in 2018-2019 but Billy B struck out
Wow! "Severe"? I'm sorry that the Pats don't have all pro caliber players at EVERY position. But here's the thing. No one else does either. There are a LOT of things that makes championship teams or not. One of them is how they win with their NON-elite players. For example the Pats were able to win 7 football games with Marshall Newhouse as their LT.

Believe Bill has done more with a LOT less than what he has now on the field, so you when you say there is a "severe lack of talent", it shows a remarkable lack of common sense and reality.
 

MrBigglesWorth

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
Tightends subpar...
Surprised there isn't some full back out there to bring in consideribg how the position is underutilized
 

Deus Irae

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club
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This offense needs a high level TE to function, because it doesn't have a speed guy with great quicks, or a quick guy with great speed. It had that with AB, but that's gone now, and teams can do what Baltimore did. You put your best speed/deep defender on Dorsett, and you keep the rest of the receivers catching short passes and taking punishment. And that works because the Patriots skill players are:

  • A TE1 who's having fun playing CBD games, instead of dominating the middle of the field, resulting in
  • A TE1 who should be a TE2
  • A TE2 who can't get on the field, and can't stay there when he's finally on it
  • Another Te2 who probably doesn't belong in the NFL at this point


  • No RB who can make things happen on his own, including the RB1 who's playing nothing like a RB1 needs to play, particularly because there's
  • A pair of FBs on IR, meaning there's
  • No FB to help with the blocking

  • A WR1 who's banged up
  • Another WR1 who's out of the league because of texts and a hypocrite of an owner, which means
  • No speed to help Dorsett
  • A WR2/WR3 who's playing for Seattle
  • Another WR2/Wr3 who's just learning the system, and hasn't learned that you don't quit on routes in New England
  • A WR4/5 who's missed most of the exhibitions and all of the regular season
  • Another WR4/5 who's a UDFA, and is still learning what needs to be done

  • A QB who's great, but can't outrun entire DLs

Besides that, though, everything's ok at the skill positions.


And the wildest thing about this (relative) dumpster fire is that I trust BB/McD/Brady to find a way to make it work, just as I trust Scar to get the OL working after Wynn's return to the lineup.
 
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patfanken

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You shouldn't be. They're not good enough. This year, Brady and McDaniels are going to have to be even more brilliant than last year, just to try getting something near the same results.
Disagree....a lot on this comment. They have better skill player talent than they've had on MANY of their teams over the years.

There is legitimate concern about how the OL and TE's are playing. So if you want to raise a red flag on this team, THAT is where you should shine your cynical light on.

I think people are just too hung up on the fact this team has no "star quality" WR's on it. But what we DO have is no worse than 8 other teams that were good enough to make it to the Superbowl.

I agree that we are MORE than good enough at WR with 3 very solid and dependable WR's in Edelman, Sanu, and Dorsett, plus the GREAT potential of Harry and the addition of Meyers who has done nothing but catch EVERY ball within reach of him.

This was NEVER going to be a big chunk WR group. Most teams NEED to make at least one big chunk play in a drive to score because slow 10-15 play drives will usually break down with penalties or bad plays. Those are the stats.

But the Pats have CONSITENTLY, over the years, been the ONE team that went against those odds and won. Mostly because they had a QB who was good and disciplined enough to make the right choices along with the rest of the team who were smart and disciplined enough NOT to make (for the most part) those drive killing mistakes.

Do we have holes. Absolutely. OL and TE are the obvious ones. But I have a feeling that when Lacosse is able to play we are going to be pleasantly surprised with his contributions. It won't be a returning of Gronk, but just enough to make the TE's a REASONABLE asset to the offense.

As to the OL. It is not going to the power team OL we had last season. It CAN'T be because of the losses at TE and FB, 2 key elements of our run game last season. But the fact is that they have been an adequate pass blocking OL even with Newhouse, and will be even better when Wynn returns against Dallas.

When you add in the quality and depth of the defense, this team has more than enough talent to defend its title.....IF they can continue to improve as a TEAM as the season progresses.

I agree with Bill. This is a coaching issue. That is to get the talent available into the best spots for it to succeed against other really talented football players.
 
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Foxypats

Pro Bowl Player
I wonder how much Sony’s struggles are him and how much is the O-like. Probably 40-60. Sony does not hit the holes fast enough and falls down too often, but then again it could be that he has no faith in the 0-line.
 

TB_Helmet

In the Starting Line-Up
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
Sanu actually seems like his skill set has high overlap with Edelman (at least the way he was used Sunday).

That's a good thing, because the only thing better than one Edelman is two Edelmans!
 

Ice_Ice_Brady

Team Bill's Worst Nightmare
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The tight ends suck and there’s no super athletic WR that teams need to double or die. So with the offensive line issues, they will have problems getting big plays and especially struggle near the goal line. Sanu looks like a good pickup, but either a game changer (like AB) or a pretty good TE is really what they need. Can’t sugarcoat the problems of weak blocking and no fullback by pointing out some capable to good wide receivers.

AB was brought in because Gronk needed to be replaced, in the sense that someone needed to be a massive threat that’s always doubled teamed, especially in the red zone. I don’t see how this team’s offense is even close to last year’s offense by subtracting Gronk, Allen, Develin, and Patterson and swapping Gordon for Sanu.

Let’s just hope the defense can still dominate and Josh comes up with something - anything - to solve their terrible red zone passing problems. No one is open. None of the plays are even designed to misdirect or fool a defense. It would be great if Harry can at least be a red zone specialist if nothing else.
 

mgteich

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I wonder how much Sony’s struggles are him and how much is the O-like. Probably 40-60. Sony does not hit the holes fast enough and falls down too often, but then again it could be that he has no faith in the 0-line.


Sony ran behind the following last year:
Brown, Thuney, Andrews, Mason, Cannon, Gronkowski, Allan and Develin

This year Sony is running behind
Newhouse, Thuney, Karras, Mason, Cannon, Watson, Izzo and Roberts.

=======
And yup, we are upset that Sony's production has decreased. Posters are soon upset that they want to bench Sony and start a rookie.
 

Kdo5

Pro Bowl Player
I disagree with this thread. We have next to nothing at TE. Our receiving group is a giant question mark after Edelman and Sanu and Sony Michel has had a bad year.

We only have three reliable weapons out there: Edelman, White, Sanu. That is scary thin. The hope is that Harry flashes when he gets out there but I think that is still a little optimistic.
 

Silver Blue&Red

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
I agree with most posters on the O line issues.
Folk looks like he is an improvement over Nugent. So that other issue seems patched up.

Not enough time for TB to get frequent, accurate throws.
Not creating good running lanes.

I'm just a casual fan, not am expert.

But to my eyes, I think we have a great, all around team other than the O line.
 

Deus Irae

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club
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Sony ran behind the following last year:
Brown, Thuney, Andrews, Mason, Cannon, Gronkowski, Allan and Develin

This year Sony is running behind
Newhouse, Thuney, Karras, Mason, Cannon, Watson, Izzo and Roberts.

=======
And yup, we are upset that Sony's production has decreased. Posters are soon upset that they want to bench Sony and start a rookie.

Sony's career game logs:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MichSo00/gamelog/

Where's the greatness that we're all missing, but you seem to be seeing?
 

NG Pats Fan

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Wow! "Severe"? I'm sorry that the Pats don't have all pro caliber players at EVERY position. But here's the thing. No one else does either. There are a LOT of things that makes championship teams or not. One of them is how they win with their NON-elite players. For example the Pats were able to win 7 football games with Marshall Newhouse as their LT.

Believe Bill has done more with a LOT less than what he has now on the field, so you when you say there is a "severe lack of talent", it shows a remarkable lack of common sense and reality.

Yeah yeah whatever, we all know you are a self proclaimed wide receiver hater.

Bottom line, about 5-6 all pro talented offensive skilled players dropped to us the past few drafts and we passed on them...some multiple times. We didn’t get 1. That’s poor drafting.
 

TB_Helmet

In the Starting Line-Up
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
Yeah yeah whatever, we all know you are a self proclaimed wide receiver hater.

Bottom line, about 5-6 all pro talented offensive skilled players dropped to us the past few drafts and we passed on them...some multiple times. We didn’t get 1. That’s poor drafting.

Yeah but we also passed on Brady at least 6 times before he finally "fell to us".
 

Patstastic

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
Edelman is beat up. He looks to be really struggling out there. Give Meyers a chance here. I really think this kid has what it takes to be a great receiver in this league. There's just something about him. If Harry is ready put him in. Maybe neither of these guys make a huge difference this season. But maybe they do. Brady needs to stop force feeding Edelman. Or going for Sanu just to get him caught up in the playbook. When you see huys like Hill and Hopkins taking the top off of every defense, it makes you wonder: "What if they were on the Pats?". I'm talking playing ability only here. I realize Hill has his issues.

Michel just isn't good enough to overcome a non elite OL. He's got no moves. Can't create his own holes. Might not be all his fault. In fact I'm pretty sure it isn't. But at least start using Harris. And give White more snaps. I have absolutely no idea why he was taken in the first round. Regardless, his arse needs to sit until he starts producing.

The OL is atrocious. We all know about Newhouse. But why is the season riding on the return of a guy who has barely played? He just seems injury prone. No backup OL were brought in for reinsurance. Now, Andrews illness is a different story. Nobody could've foreseen that coming. But his absence is really being felt. He's an all pro centre. Those are hard to replace.

Tight end might be the worst in the league. One guy is 38. Borderline starter most of his career. Another guy is injured. The other tight end couldn't block to save his life. Now he's out injured too. Gronk was a generational type tight end. One we see once every few decades. Take the best tight end in the game today (Kelce). At his best, he's not even close to being what Gronk was. But unfortunately he's not walking through that door. And we are seeing what life is without him. It sucks. Really sucks. But we must move on. It's going to be the same situation once Brady retires or leaves. If Gronk was uncertain about his future, the team shouldn't of kept waiting. Jared Cook was out there.

The QB needs to stop airing in all these commercials. TB 12 stuff. And leaking info on his mansion being up for sale and so forth. He's made hints all season about being unhappy with his current cast. Which is fine behind doors. He's going to be 43 next year. It appears as though his time is almost up in New England. Not because he sucks. But because it's been 20 years. And the writing really seems to be on the wall now.

I love BB the coach. To me he is reasona number one for the SB win last year. But the drafting the past couple of years isn't cutting it. I'm sorry it isn't. There's been too many misses. Maybe it's time to bring in an additional personnel director for the draft. Or hand the keys over to a Caserio or Pioli type to handle drafts. But I still want him as coach for however long he can do it. He's had bad coaching moments (SB 42 & 52), but they are far and few between.

The offense won't cut it against the Chiefs, Saints, or Texans of the world. The defense is the x factor though. Everything will depend on how well they perform against top tier competition. And unfortunately it's looking like maybe that 8-0 start might've been a product of playing bum Qb's. But again, we shall see. This is now a defense first oriented team.
 

NYCPATS4LIFE

In the Starting Line-Up
I think it’s critical for this team to try and get the top seed because i don’t know if they can win a playoff game on the road again this time around. So getting that top seed is a big must.
 

Oswlek

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
Understandable but he played well from the start. It’s not like he was a bum. He got mad because of his snaps counts which is understandable. Idk he should have seen more snaps over some other guys upfront. It’s there is a weakness right now on this team it’s on the d-line. The fact that they got also a lousy pick in return doesn’t help.

Blame Bennett since he's the reason he's in Dallas. He was anything but a good sport about his suspension and made it clear to anyone with a mic that every hard feeling remained.
 

Oswlek

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
I wonder how much Sony’s struggles are him and how much is the O-like. Probably 40-60. Sony does not hit the holes fast enough and falls down too often, but then again it could be that he has no faith in the 0-line.

More like 90-10. Sony is tentative because the blocking sucks.
 

TheAdultintheRoom

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
So far the team has been good enough to go 8-1. We will find out in the coming weeks whether they can continue that level of success.
 
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