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If We Pick At 15


Reality of this matter is probably one of three realistic outcomes. Bill takes defense, Bill takes an Offensive lineman or Bill trades back. Even if a WR or a QB falls to the Pats. That would probably enhance the probability of trading back.
 
Front 7 D or OL.

I just checked WalterFootball and they have us picking Zaven Collins at #15. Didn't see him at all in regular games but his highlights are crazy impressive. Can cover and make plays in the passing game and can play at the LOS and make plays in the backfield as well.

What do people on here think about him?
 
We need a QB. We aren’t winning without one. Everything is a risk. Taking no risk will have us sitting on the worst QB room in the nfl wallowing in mediocrity, patting ourselves on the back about keeping picks that can win because if the QB
A drafted qb won't play and win this year. They may draft a guy like Mond and see how it goes or just wait for Jimmy to be cut next year.
 
A drafted qb won't play and win this year. They may draft a guy like Mond and see how it goes or just wait for Jimmy to be cut next year.
Fields would be starting by October. And this team has been built in a way that it surely can win with a young QB
Jimmy isn’t the answer unless the question is who can we get that will disappoint us with his inability to stay healthy.
“See how it goes” is a terrible plan for the most important position in the game when you are the worst in the league at it.

You have to take risk or you are just accepting mediocrity until you get lucky.
 
Fields would be starting by October. And this team has been built in a way that it surely can win with a young QB
Jimmy isn’t the answer unless the question is who can we get that will disappoint us with his inability to stay healthy.
“See how it goes” is a terrible plan for the most important position in the game when you are the worst in the league at it.

You have to take risk or you are just accepting mediocrity until you get lucky.
Every single thought you have on our QB situation is exactly how I feel too. I was going to post in this thread but no need. You got it covered. :thumbsup:
 
Say, hypothetically, Lance falls to 15. Its plausible. I think Denver would take Fields over Lance at 9.. Lance is the riskiest of the top 5 qbs by far. I wouldn't trade up for him. But if hes there at 15,I think BB gets
him. Lets say Jimmy G is gettable for a 2022 2nd. I think BB does that in a heartbeat. Stidham gets cut, JG starts and Cam is the backup. Lance needs at least a year on the bench and JG and Cam are two great guys to learn from.
To me, ideal scenario. Pats are instant contenders but have hope for the future with Lance and a solid backup in Cam when JG gets hurt. And gave up virtually no draft capital. Not likely but its plausible
 
I probably have not looked at all the pros's and cons but if we do not take a QB this year are we only kicking the can down the road into 2022 and will be in the same position of other teams wanting a QB or a back up QB. Are the QB's on offer this year better than 2022.
 
I probably have not looked at all the pros's and cons but if we do not take a QB this year are we only kicking the can down the road into 2022 and will be in the same position of other teams wanting a QB or a back up QB. Are the QB's on offer this year better than 2022.
Im not a big college football guy but what I heard is 2022 qb class is worse.
Not only that, but with all the additions plus Cam having more time to both assimilate the offense and heal that shoulder, we all know the Pats will be better this year meaning worse draft pick.
They need to get one of these top 5 qbs
 
I probably have not looked at all the pros's and cons but if we do not take a QB this year are we only kicking the can down the road into 2022 and will be in the same position of other teams wanting a QB or a back up QB. Are the QB's on offer this year better than 2022.
This is the year to take a QB. Next year's class will be much weaker.
 
Say, hypothetically, Lance falls to 15. Its plausible. I think Denver would take Fields over Lance at 9.. Lance is the riskiest of the top 5 qbs by far. I wouldn't trade up for him. But if hes there at 15,I think BB gets
him. Lets say Jimmy G is gettable for a 2022 2nd. I think BB does that in a heartbeat. Stidham gets cut, JG starts and Cam is the backup. Lance needs at least a year on the bench and JG and Cam are two great guys to learn from.
To me, ideal scenario. Pats are instant contenders but have hope for the future with Lance and a solid backup in Cam when JG gets hurt. And gave up virtually no draft capital. Not likely but its plausible
An awesome scenario but as close to zero chance of happening as there is. There are QB needy teams likely to leapfrog the Pats via trade before Lance makes it to 15. Garoppolo has a no trade clause and set to cost over $48 for the next two seasons. Not affordable for the Pats as it stands. He would need to agree to restructure his deal, perhaps for more guaranteed money. But now you’re committing more money on the cap long term to a QB that isn’t even in the long term plans since you already have Lance for that. That’s assuming he’d even agree to taking a paycut. That’s on top of joining the locker room with a pissed off alpha male in Cam Newton who is trying to prove he can still be a starter in the NFL and hasn’t had to be anyone’s backup since his sophomore year at Florida 13 years ago.

The way I see it is this. If the Pats trade for Garoppolo, then they are out on investing a first rounder on a rookie QB, and Cam would have to go. We’d be more likely to see a developmental backup taken in the 3rd or 4th round, a guy who would push Stidham for his spot. The first rounder would be used on a stud defensive player.

If they see an opportunity to get Lance without having to give up as much (or in this scenario, anything), then there’s no trading for Garoppolo. Cam would start and help mentor Lance to get him ready for the role.
 
Hello Everyone. I am glad to be back. Left the forum for a while but couldn’t stay away forever lol. This is Afam. Trying to either get my old account back or the username.
 
An awesome scenario but as close to zero chance of happening as there is. There are QB needy teams likely to leapfrog the Pats via trade before Lance makes it to 15. Garoppolo has a no trade clause and set to cost over $48 for the next two seasons. Not affordable for the Pats as it stands. He would need to agree to restructure his deal, perhaps for more guaranteed money. But now you’re committing more money on the cap long term to a QB that isn’t even in the long term plans since you already have Lance for that. That’s assuming he’d even agree to taking a paycut. That’s on top of joining the locker room with a pissed off alpha male in Cam Newton who is trying to prove he can still be a starter in the NFL and hasn’t had to be anyone’s backup since his sophomore year at Florida 13 years ago.

The way I see it is this. If the Pats trade for Garoppolo, then they are out on investing a first rounder on a rookie QB, and Cam would have to go. We’d be more likely to see a developmental backup taken in the 3rd or 4th round, a guy who would push Stidham for his spot. The first rounder would be used on a stud defensive player.

If they see an opportunity to get Lance without having to give up as much (or in this scenario, anything), then there’s no trading for Garoppolo. Cam would start and help mentor Lance to get him ready for the role.
Disagree.
JG will not want to be in SF if they don't want him. He sure as hell would want a trade to NE.
Of course it would be open comp between him and Cam. Cam would have
no prob with that. But hes not beating out JG.
Lance has no shot of starting as a rook. Hes the only one of the top 5 qbs in that situation.
BB did not acquire all this talent to not have a good qb to give them a shot at making noise in the playoffs. JG is only necessary if its Lance who falls to them.
Pats can afford him. And they may only keep him one year anyway. Lets say they make noise in playoffs and JG has a good season. He now becomes a hot property.
If Lance looks really good preseason following year, you have a lot of suitors for JG. If Lance isnt ready, keep JG one more year. Its win/win for both Pats and JG. If he proves himself and stays relatively healthy in a system/coach he understands with a team capable of winning big, he has raised his value.
He knows this and hed restructure.
The only question is if Lance falls to Pats.
Ive now just seen a few mocks incl. espn
that have Denver taking Lance over Fields.
I dont buy it, but thats even better.
There are no teams talking a qb between denver and ne. None. So if the Pats get Fields, no need for JG. Fields is almost nfl-ready. An improved Cam with much better weapons and a better defense starts the season. But I could see Fields taking over before seasons end.
Id take Fields over Lance, anyway.
I dont really buy all these people saying hez falling to 15. Makes no sense.
But Pats need one if these top 5 qbs.
 
Of course it would be open comp between him and Cam. Cam would have
no prob with that.
You don’t know that. Cam hasn’t given any indication that he would accept a backup role. This is what he said prior to re-signing with the Pats:


"I know out of 32 guys, I'm not the 32 position rank. So you have to also understand, I'm a competitor first. I know what my skill set is, I know what my talent is. I understand that if given the opportunity, there is nobody better than me. That's how I'll always feel. I have to also feel realistic about the opportunity that is presented as well," Newton said in the radio interview.

"If you are asking me, Do I want to be a backup? Hell no! When I look at other teams, and I'm looking at other players play, there have been guys that have been getting away with murder for years because of subpar play. Do I have the right to say that with the year I had this year? No. But I'm going to be honest and say it because that's what I do."


Those are the words of a man who still believes he’s a starter in this league. You assume Garoppolo desperately wants out because his team has traded for his replacement, yet you think Cam would be fine with the Pats trading for his replacement? Again, Cam still thinks he’s an NFL starting QB, but he can’t go out and prove that if he’s benched at the end of training camp. You’d be naive to believe that would sit well with him. Maybe, just maybe, he’d be a good soldier knowing Garoppolo’s durability concerns may give him an opening over the course of the season. Maybe he gives Belichick that respect. But it’s also just as possible Belichick gives Cam the respect of being able to pursue another team to play for. One that didn’t just trade for his replacement.

As far as this statement of yours:

Pats can afford him. And they may only keep him one year anyway.

Tells me you don’t understand how the salary cap works. As of this moment the Pats have little over $15 million in cap space available. Garoppolo’s cap hit for this season alone is over $26 million, and it goes to $27 million next year. Without a restructure, the Pats would be $11 million over the cap if they traded for him.

They obviously need the cap space to sign their draftees (they currently have 10 draft picks heading into Thursday) as well as any undrafted free agents, and any cuts that take place over the course of the summer, and a buffer to work with during the season itself. The 49ers have expressed no interest in restructuring Garoppolo’s contract themselves, which would add years of dead money to their own salary cap. To afford Garoppolo in a trade, the Pats would have to get creative and restructure his deal after he is acquired to make it team friendly for this season, kicking the can down years. He’s owed $50.5 million over the next two seasons, and it’s anyone’s guess how much of that he’d be willing to give up for a chance to start with the Pats.

The other mistake you make is saying they only need him for one year. If the Pats have Lance, sure. But you’re not taking into account the possible restructured deal. Right now his current contract has no guaranteed money. The 49ers could cut him tomorrow and suffer a cap hit of only $2.8 million. Or they can cut him next year and the cap hit is only $1.4 million. That’s less in both years combined than what the Pats’ dead cap would be if they cut Cam this year ($5.5 million).

Given the lack of guaranteed money on Garoppolo’s contract, it would only make sense that he agree to the trade and restructure his contract if he sees guaranteed money out of it (I’d wager more than half of his remaining salary at least). Why else would he accept a lateral move: if you’re willing to dump Garoppolo after one year, how is that any different than his situation in San Francisco, except he’d get paid more money this season? If he were to look out for the Pats by restructuring to a friendly deal to fit in this year’s cap, the Pats need to look out for him in return in the form of guaranteed money. It only makes sense. So yes, they might be able to afford him, but only if they agree on a restructure, and it wouldn’t be for just one year. And it wouldn’t make sense to do that if Garoppolo is not the guy you want leading this team beyond this season.

The problem here is you’re only seeing this with rose tinted glasses on, from the perspective of what would be most convenient for the Pats. Trust me I would love nothing more than to the see our prodigal son Garoppolo return home and sacrifice a ton of his salary for the benefit of the team, while Cam, a former MVP and more accomplished player to this point, accepts a backup role for the first time in his career, while still landing Lance (or Fields) without having to give up any additional assets in the process. It’s fun to imagine. But if you think it’s a realistic possibility then you’re wrong.

- Jimmy’s not coming here without some sort of commitment from the Pats, in terms of years or guaranteed money or both. He is not a charity case and the Pats do not have the cap space to handle his current contract without some sort of restructure.

- Cam almost certainly did not sign here with the understanding that he’s going in as a backup. He’s a leader who wants to start and to mentor his teammates. I’m sure he’d be fine if the Pats traded for their 2022 Week 1 starter, but not for their 2021 Week 1 starter. Business is business and the Pats have to look out for their business but Cam needs to look out for his as well, and being benched is bad for his business.

- Lance and Fields are too good to make it all the way to 15. The Pats can still get one of them, but 99% chance they’d have to trade up to make it happen. I’d be shocked if another team didn’t trade ahead of them to get whoever’s left between them.

Your fantasy scenario has too many factors working against it to be plausible. I’d be more than happy to be wrong here, I would personally apologize to you and celebrate if it all came true. But I don’t think I’ll have to worry about that.
 
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Fields would be starting by October. And this team has been built in a way that it surely can win with a young QB
Jimmy isn’t the answer unless the question is who can we get that will disappoint us with his inability to stay healthy.
“See how it goes” is a terrible plan for the most important position in the game when you are the worst in the league at it.

You have to take risk or you are just accepting mediocrity until you get lucky.
You talk in absolutes and are so definite about a process that is knowingly hit and miss. If we draft Fields and IF he develops he may potentially be starting as early as October
 
1. Devonta Smith
2. Horn
3. Parsons
4. Collins
5. AVT
 
Justin Fields, then fill out the rest of the roster. An Offensive lineman, a receiver, CB, LB etc
 
This is the year to take a QB. Next year's class will be much weaker.
I don't necessarily agree. Sure, right now, there are only maybe two QB's in next year's class that would be 1st rounders this year, but there's a lot more depth at the position next year. And a QB often comes from nowhere to be a high pick, like Zack Wilson, Joe Burrow or Mac Jones.
 


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