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If Mac and BB have irreconcilable differences, what is Mac’s trade value?


You're forgetting the kid was a rookie and still well outperformed his peers. I don't know what your benchmark is, but he had one of the best rookie seasons for a rookie QB in the last decade and certainly exceeded most expectations many of us had for him.



Obviously, last year was a mess, and we'll see how this one goes. But Brady's gone, and there are only a handful of elite QBs in the league as it is, and that pool is quickly being diluted, given the recent retirements or guys who have just declined. As a result, we're going to have to lower the bar there and hope Jones either improves this year or, if not, Zappe can ultimately be the guy, or a better alternative comes along.

But great QBs don't grow on trees, and elite ones are rare (teams often go decades without one, we were extremely lucky), so "it is what it is."

People forget just how bad some of those 2021 NE wins were.

The Jets games were a joke. Mac Jones threw for less yards than Wilson and Wilson threw 4 INTs. New England Patriots at New York Jets - September 19th, 2021 | Pro-Football-Reference.com

411 passing yards and 3 passing TDs was a great day. Too bad it was vs Mike White and the Jets. New York Jets at New England Patriots - October 24th, 2021 | Pro-Football-Reference.com

290 passing yards and 3 more passing TDs vs the Jags with no HC. Jacksonville Jaguars at New England Patriots - January 2nd, 2022 | Pro-Football-Reference.com

700 passing yards and 6 TDs in 2 games vs terrible teams. Its like Alabama beating up on U Mass. Some folks love those kinds of wins, but to me its like when George Constanza locked his keys in his car working for the Yankees. Yankee brass thought that he was putting in 20 hours a day because his car was always there. George was a legend due to dumb luck.

The Pats got found out in the post season. Exposed as fakes.
 
People forget just how bad some of those 2021 NE wins were.

The Jets games were a joke. Mac Jones threw for less yards than Wilson and Wilson threw 4 INTs. New England Patriots at New York Jets - September 19th, 2021 | Pro-Football-Reference.com

411 passing yards and 3 passing TDs was a great day. Too bad it was vs Mike White and the Jets. New York Jets at New England Patriots - October 24th, 2021 | Pro-Football-Reference.com

290 passing yards and 3 more passing TDs vs the Jags with no HC. Jacksonville Jaguars at New England Patriots - January 2nd, 2022 | Pro-Football-Reference.com

700 passing yards and 6 TDs in 2 games vs terrible teams. Its like Alabama beating up on U Mass. Some folks love those kinds of wins, but to me its like when George Constanza locked his keys in his car working for the Yankees. Yankee brass thought that he was putting in 20 hours a day because his car was always there. George was a legend due to dumb luck.

The Pats got found out in the post season. Exposed as fakes.
Good teams are supposed to beat up on bad teams. You play who you play, it is what it is, and they did that.

Again, all of this was done with a rookie quarterback. A rookie quarterback who, for that year, outplayed his peers and all those other teams - I'm sure - would have been happy to win 10 games.

You can be down on all that, I guess, if you want. But I don't know what else you want. Again, Brady's gone, Mac is Mac, Bailey is Bailey, and after that, they don't have anyone else and there's not much else out there. Why you're enjoying focusing on the misery is a little puzzling. I think my head would explode if that's all I thought about...so I don't know how/why you're doing that.
 
Democrats are known for cheating. Liars too.

JFK got in office due to his dad ginning up more votes in Chicago.

Bottom line is there was an agreement that the 2020 vote counting could be observed by a 3rd party and that agreement was breached.
No the bottom line was the votes were counted and then RE-counted and RE-counted again. If an signed agreement WAS actually breach Trump would have won at least ONE of his 70 odd court cases.

Remember T, that I only brought up the topic in relation to the discussion of how people can take a speculative point of view and soon it becomes wrongly viewed as fact. BUT now I AM going to get political with a FACT that is not related to football. Donald Trump, with this election LIE, has done more damage to American democracy than ANY individual person in our history. Because once a significant percentage believes any election that THEIR candidate doesn't win is rigged, then democracy CANNOT survive.......and he continues to foster this lie at EVERY public appearance he makes

T, this isn't about liberal or conservative values or ideas. This is about the very survival of our democratic system. Historically Democracies fall when the populous is angry and people no longer believe in the electoral process can get things done through cooperation and compromise. Over the last 6 years that is what's been happening. Then people start to think that maybe what we reed is a one party government with a strongman leading it who CAN get their agenda through and things will actually get done.

And what I have just described is EXACTLY what happened in Germany in the 1930's

BTW, I would LOVE to continue this discussion over PM. Do you REALLY believe the election wa "stolen". I'd like to hear your POV.
 
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Good teams are supposed to beat up on bad teams. You play who you play, it is what it is, and they did that.

Again, all of this was done with a rookie quarterback. A rookie quarterback who, for that year, outplayed his peers and all those other teams - I'm sure - would have been happy to win 10 games.

You can be down on all that, I guess, if you want. But I don't know what else you want. Again, Brady's gone, Mac is Mac, Bailey is Bailey, and after that, they don't have anyone else and there's not much else out there. Why you're enjoying focusing on the misery is a little puzzling. I think my head would explode if that's all I thought about...so I don't know how/why you're doing that.
When the Pats beat the Bills, I would like it if the QB had a key role in the win. That's all. That to me would be real and a sign that the team is heading in the right direction with the right QB.

The end goal is to get back to the Super Bowl and that will take a decent QB who will have to make plays when the chips are down.

Excuses and blame doesn't cut it. I cant blame Patricia when he did not tell Jones to throw INTs.
 
When the Pats beat the Bills, I would like it if the QB had a key role in the win. That's all. That to me would be real and a sign that the team is heading in the right direction with the right QB.

The end goal is to get back to the Super Bowl and that will take a decent QB who will have to make plays when the chips are down.

Excuses and blame doesn't cut it. I cant blame Patricia when he did not tell Jones to throw INTs.
Again, you can beat the horse all you want, but he and Zappe are all they've got right now. Until a better option suddenly appears, all we can do is root for either of the kids to not screw up and take them however far they can go. Harping on the negative isn't going to change that.

That's our reality, we're like the rest of the league now, albeit with a coach who is still coaching an effective enough game plan where every week, you at least feel like they've got a shot. And every game was one they were in last year, even despite a couple of teams pulling away late.

Otherwise, we had it great for 20+ years, and this is what we've got until someone like that falls back into our laps. But as I've said repeatedly, those guys are rare and it's going to take some luck before that happens again. Hopefully, one of these two pan out, but for now, "it is what it is."
 
No the bottom line was the votes were counted and then RE-counted and RE-counted again. If an signed agreement WAS actually breach Trump would have won at least ONE of his 70 odd court cases.

Remember T, that I only brought up the topic in relation to the discussion of how people can take a speculative point of view and soon it becomes wrongly viewed as fact. BUT now I AM going to get political with a FACT that is not related to football. Donald Trump, with this election LIE, has done more damage to American democracy than ANY individual person in our history. Because once a significant percentage believes any election that THEIR candidate doesn't win is rigged, then democracy CANNOT survive.......and he continues to foster this lie at EVERY public appearance he makes

T, this isn't about liberal or conservative values or ideas. This is about the very survival of our democratic system. Historically Democracies fall when the populous is angry and people no longer believe in the electoral process can get things done through cooperation and compromise. Over the last 6 years that is what's been happening. Then people start to think that maybe what we reed is a one party government with a strongman leading it who CAN get their agenda through and things will actually get done.

And what I have just described is EXACTLY what happened in Germany in the 1930's
You need to convince yourself that the election was legit.
 
Democrats are known for cheating. Liars too.

JFK got in office due to his dad ginning up more votes in Chicago.

Bottom line is there was an agreement that the 2020 vote counting could be observed by a 3rd party and that agreement was breached.

No the bottom line was the votes were counted and then RE-counted and RE-counted again. If an signed agreement WAS actually breach Trump would have won at least ONE of his 70 odd court cases.

Remember T, that I only brought up the topic in relation to the discussion of how people can take a speculative point of view and soon it becomes wrongly viewed as fact. BUT now I AM going to get political with a FACT that is not related to football. Donald Trump, with this election LIE, has done more damage to American democracy than ANY individual person in our history. Because once a significant percentage believes any election that THEIR candidate doesn't win is rigged, then democracy CANNOT survive.......and he continues to foster this lie at EVERY public appearance he makes

T, this isn't about liberal or conservative values or ideas. This is about the very survival of our democratic system. Historically Democracies fall when the populous is angry and people no longer believe in the electoral process can get things done through cooperation and compromise. Over the last 6 years that is what's been happening. Then people start to think that maybe what we reed is a one party government with a strongman leading it who CAN get their agenda through and things will actually get done.

And what I have just described is EXACTLY what happened in Germany in the 1930's

BTW, I would LOVE to continue this discussion over PM. Do you REALLY believe the election wa "stolen". I'd like to hear your POV.

You need to convince yourself that the election was legit.
Yeah, I would request this discussion get hashed out in a DM - please. :cool:
 
Yeah, I would request this discussion get hashed out in a DM - please. :cool:
C'mon man. ;)
Anticipation Popcorn GIF
 
  • Ha Ha
Reactions: Ian
Again, you can beat the horse all you want, but he and Zappe are all they've got right now. Until a better option suddenly appears, all we can do is root for either of the kids to not screw up and take them however far they can go. Harping on the negative isn't going to change that.

That's our reality, we're like the rest of the league now, albeit with a coach who is still coaching an effective enough game plan where every week, you at least feel like they've got a shot. And every game was one they were in last year, even despite a couple of teams pulling away late.

Otherwise, we had it great for 20+ years, and this is what we've got until someone like that falls back into our laps. But as I've said repeatedly, those guys are rare and it's going to take some luck before that happens again. Hopefully, one of these two pan out, but for now, "it is what it is."
When I called for Bledsoe to go I heard the same thing.
 
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When I called for Bledsoe to go I heard the same thing.
LOL, so - that's a different situation. You can't expect a perfect parallel to happen twice. Zappe's under contract for three more seasons. Jones will obviously have this year to either turn it around, or they'll pass on his option after this year, probably deal him, and then elevate Zappe and/or bring in someone else.

You'll get what you want either way. You'll either get an improved player who has them back to winning games, or they'll ship him out of here. All you - and the rest of us - can do is let it play out.
 
Yeah, I would request this discussion get hashed out in a DM - please. :cool:
what is DM. I thought it was PM as in private mail? What even anyone with an opposing view to mine i is ENCOURAGED to try and convince me why I'm wrong, BUT only contacting me directly using PM or DM or whatever

And speaking of euphemisms, can any tell me what RKLAG means?
 
You need to convince yourself that the election was legit.
THAT's not an answer, its an evasion. Tell me what you REALLY think in DM
 
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what is DM. I thought it was PM as in private mail? What even anyone with an opposing view to mine i is ENCOURAGED to try and convince me why I'm wrong, BUT only contacting me directly using PM or DM or whatever

And speaking of euphemisms, can any tell me what RKLAG means?
LOL, you're right, PM would be more accurate. And as much as I'd prefer to hear your thoughts on the matter - because I know where @Triumph stands ;) - I don't want the thread to get derailed any further.

And the RKLAG thing is "Ray Lewis Killed a Guy" - which I don't even remember where that came from or who exactly started it, but that's what it means :cool:
 
LOL, so - that's a different situation. You can't expect a perfect parallel to happen twice. Zappe's under contract for three more seasons. Jones will obviously have this year to either turn it around, or they'll pass on his option after this year, probably deal him, and then elevate Zappe and/or bring in someone else.

You'll get what you want either way. You'll either get an improved player who has them back to winning games, or they'll ship him out of here. All you - and the rest of us - can do is let it play out.
If they ship Mac, they would definitely bring in someone else to compete with Zappe.
 
  • Agree
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If they ship Mac, they would definitely bring in someone else to compete with Zappe.
Absolutely, 100% agree. I just meant that either Zappe would be the favorite, or someone else would be brought in who would potentially be the more likely candidate. Usually when a second name is added, obviously, the discussion begins on who would win out, which is what I was referring to since that's usually how it goes in here. ;)
 
Really? I would take Justin Fields 24/7 365 days of the year he had worse Coaching. If Mac's your second best from that class it means it was real crappy.
Justin Fields is not close to Jones right now. And probably never will be.
I do expect both Jones and Fields to improve but I think Jones will end up the better wb in the long run. Lawrence will be a stud.
Wilson and Lance both busts. So really not a great qb class.
 
LOL, so - that's a different situation.
Its the same.

The QB is not doing the job and causing the team to lose.
You can't expect a perfect parallel to happen twice.
Zappe's under contract for three more seasons. Jones will obviously have this year to either turn it around, or they'll pass on his option after this year, probably deal him, and then elevate Zappe and/or bring in someone else.
Its still a change at QB either way.

Same with Bledsoe and Brady. The people claiming that I was not a Pats fan during the Bledsoe years didnt have a word to say when Brady stepped in and executed. Because they were wrong. There were several of us that had seen enough from Bledsoe and wanted change. The Homers would not hear of it though.
You'll get what you want either way. You'll either get an improved player who has them back to winning games, or they'll ship him out of here. All you - and the rest of us - can do is let it play out.
The only thing that I want is to quit wasting more time on an underperforming QB when the Pats have had pretty good teams.
 
LOL, so - that's a different situation. You can't expect a perfect parallel to happen twice. Zappe's under contract for three more seasons. Jones will obviously have this year to either turn it around, or they'll pass on his option after this year, probably deal him, and then elevate Zappe and/or bring in someone else.

You'll get what you want either way. You'll either get an improved player who has them back to winning games, or they'll ship him out of here. All you - and the rest of us - can do is let it play out.
Yup

And when Bourne or Parker or Toothpick Thornton is heading to the endone and has his man beat, but the pass from Corky Jones is 3 feet too short, I will call that out for what it is. I will call balls, strikes and INTs the way that I see them. Like with Bledsoe.

I wont be blaming BOB either.
 
Its the same.

The QB is not doing the job and causing the team to lose.

Its still a change at QB either way.

Same with Bledsoe and Brady. The people claiming that I was not a Pats fan during the Bledsoe years didnt have a word to say when Brady stepped in and executed. Because they were wrong. There were several of us that had seen enough from Bledsoe and wanted change. The Homers would not hear of it though.

The only thing that I want is to quit wasting more time on an underperforming QB when the Pats have had pretty good teams.
They got lucky with Brady. Obviously, there's not a Brady-esque guy sitting around they can pluck off the streets, and Mac won't have the same leash this year given the fact Belichick is obviously facing some pressure from Kraft to get back to the postseason.

Yup

And when Bourne or Parker or Toothpick Thornton is heading to the endone and has his man beat, but the pass from Corky Jones is 3 feet too short, I will call that out for what it is. I will call balls, strikes and INTs the way that I see them. Like with Bledsoe.

I wont be blaming BOB either.
Again, you can obviously do whatever you want if that's how things play out. But again, I would at least suggest rooting for the kid to succeed since the success of the team is what we're all hoping for. Maybe he turns it around, and if you go back and watch film from 2021 and even last season, as much as you don't like him, he made some pretty terrific throws at various points over that span. Honestly, the biggest difference I saw in watching it was the confidence. He played a lot faster in year one compared to last year, which under McDaniels made sense since he trusted him.

I've said this before, but the Dallas game stands out to me. After throwing a pick-six, rather than going to a safe short game, McDaniels came right back and called a strike down the field to Bourne, and Jones threw a perfect ball over the safety for the touchdown to put them right back up. That was essentially symbolic of the difference between the two seasons.

He may not have a rocket for an arm, but he's smart enough and accurate enough where we've seen him complete some pretty solid throws. Hopefully, O'Brien will put him in a position to allow him to have more options in getting the ball out of his hands faster to allow him to make more of them.

If not, and Belichick plays Zappe at some point, same story. And based on the comments, Zappe and Mac will likely be going back and forth at camp this time around because Zappe won't be behind Hoyer, or whatever other veteran they eventually bring in this year. So that part of it should be interesting.

Otherwise, again, it is what it is. We have who we have and they're going to have to make the best out of it. Mac may not be an elite guy, but if he can go out and throw 20+ touchdowns and move the chains and get them in the end zone the way he did two seasons ago, with this defense, they'll be in the mix. If he does take a step forward, maybe they win a Wild Card game, and another high seed gets bounced, and they end up with a shot at going further. Especially if they're actually healthy and aren't down two starting corners during the most critical stretch this time around. Who knows?

It would be nice for them to add an explosive receiver, but replacing Jonnu Smith with Gesicki in and of itself is a significant boost, since now they have an extra guy to draw coverage which should hopefully open up someone else. It's a lot easier to complete passes when 2-3 of your guys are spaced in a way to create a throwing lane instead of being right on top of one another. I'm assuming that gets fixed this year.

So we'll wait and see. But again, you want a guy gone without much of an alternative. Maybe you'll get your wish, but if not, and he ends up playing well, all we can do is root for it all to work out. Rooting against it makes for a miserable experience, so let's try and avoid that, if possible.
 


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