If Jimmy Looks a Franchise QB, Would You Trade Brady?

[Actual Pats Fan]

We all know that time waits for no man, and there will come a time where Brady goes. At that point, we will need a franchise QB, and when you are so strong elsewhere, they aren't going to fall into your lap.

Jimmy has a chance to shine. If, and it is a big if, BB thinks that Jimmy is a franchise QB, would you, in much the same way as SF and GB moved on from JM and BF to SY and AR, get rid of Brady and let the new era begin?

If not, Jimmy may well be gone at the end of the year, as he is due to get paid.

The option may well be watching Brady retire in a couple of years, and having a decade of useless QB's, and watching the Jets pound us!

So, the Patriots are to learn NOTHING from Bill Walsh's senility (cost 'Niners-and Joe-two SB's or more)

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

OK my sarcastic friends....this was just a question! LOL

What is your succession plan though, because there is no doubt that the big QB prospects will be taken by the time we are picking. Letting the team have 10 years of mediocrity for the sake of two years for a legend just doesn't make sense to me, and to be fair, BB has never had an issue trading anyone!

If you can give me an idea what you will do on day one after Brady, that would be great!

Ride Tom through to the end, and with good fortune (and that seems really much more likely now that it seems to happen almost annually to totally undeserving others) he'll go out a champ.

The league will still be filled with the same morons in other front offices and coach's chairs, so make sure you keep your good owner and super coach and get and keep as many good assistants, management personnel and staff as you can...then, exercise some common sense, especially when selecting a QB. This is NOT the NBA. If you're smart and look hard enough, you'll find a veteran or young QB who can - and, if you give him some (not necessarily expensive, but reliable) weapons, will - lead you to more titles.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

What does page count have to do with the quality of the question?

Um, ask me again on Page 12.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

This is not an issue for 2 more full seasons. Both Brady and Polo are signed to at least then at a reasonable CAP. Assuming both are doing well and healthy, only then is it a CAP issue and Polo is still able to be franchised for the 2018 season. At that time Brady will be 41 going on 42If Polo is franchised for 2018 Brady will be 43., the age he has set as a retirement. He may not be a full time starter by then and a renegotiation of his remaining contract may be possible, and even probable for the one season where he is 43.

Starting QBs are hard to find. When you have one you keep him. Period.

Yeah. Blanda played into his late 40's. And, Tom doesn't rely that much on athletic ability. He does seem to have the knack for avoiding serious injuries.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

If Jimmy is the real deal, and keeping him would be best for the future of our franchise, I would keep him, no question. But at the expense of Brady? That's a tough sell

Chiuba=best picture

 

[Deus Irae]

Um, ask me again on Page 12.

Lousy question/idea threads do sometimes have longevity, often because people are effusive in their disdainful reponse posts. Whether or not this one fits under that heading, I'll leave for others to decide.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

My thoughts exactly as the '93 NFCCG began, and healthy, active Joe Montana was standing on the sidelines. I like JJ, but if Montana started that game the Cowboys would have pooped their pants. Instead, with Young starting, they licked their chops.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Yeah. Blanda played into his late 40's. And, Tom doesn't rely that much on athletic ability. He does seem to have the knack for avoiding serious injuries.

Blanda played as a Kicker not a QB in his 40s. Favre was the only one to play into his early forties, and he was a shell of himself, but too dogged to retire. In baseball,Willie Mays stayed too long too.

 

[Gronk]

My thoughts exactly as the '93 NFCCG began, and healthy, active Joe Montana was standing on the sidelines. I like JJ, but if Montana started that game the Cowboys would have pooped their pants. Instead, with Young starting, they licked their chops.

Nope...just, nope.

Maybe it wasn't "fair" that Montana lost his job due to injury, and due respect to Joe that he was beaten down out of a very close NFCCG in '91 against the NYG in his last start as a Niner whilst getting closer to a 3-peat than anyone has, but you are talking about a season in which STEVE YOUNG WAS THE MVP OF THE NFL and Montana hadn't started a game (and had only played in one, albeit well, albeit the Lions) in most of 2 seasons. If Montana started that game, he might be dead.

Hell I rooted for the guy in KC, but it was pretty clear based on the remainder of his career that SF made the right choice given what was left of Joe.

I'm in the 'TB 4eva' club but I think your memory is playing tricks on you here.

 

[PatsDeb]

I love you ,Deb.

I love you too Joker! ??

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Nope...just, nope.

Maybe it wasn't "fair" that Montana lost his job due to injury, and due respect to Joe that he was beaten down out of a very close NFCCG in '91 against the NYG in his last start as a Niner whilst getting closer to a 3-peat than anyone has, but you are talking about a season in which STEVE YOUNG WAS THE MVP OF THE NFL and Montana hadn't started a game (and had only played in one, albeit well, albeit the Lions) in most of 2 seasons. If Montana started that game, he might be dead.

Hell I rooted for the guy in KC, but it was pretty clear based on the remainder of his career that SF made the right choice given what was left of Joe.

I'm in the 'TB 4eva' club but I think your memory is playing tricks on you here.

I'm in the 'Patriots 4eva' club

I just don't think the hard choice comes this year or anytime soon, if it comes at all (i.e., it is possible that BB and TFB agree on the date of suckage... but now that we're discussing it... do we really think that's how it will end?)

But for this year, this is a guy who's reading the field standing between him and #5, starting with a possible hole of unknown depth to start from (or a mini-QB Controversy if his backup does well). He remembers how he got his job, after all. I think there's a reason he's going 27 of 27 or whatever it was in camp.

I find it hard to imagine how dialed-in he could get. I can see a 1-game shake-the-rust-off return, although truthfully I think he comes out week 5 and lights somebody up bad.

And all these long term thoughts, well, they're just that. But at this age "long term" could be the 5 years Brady foresees or it could be the 1 year that would break my heart.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Blanda played as a Kicker not a QB in his 40s. Favre was the only one to play into his early forties, and he was a shell of himself, but too dogged to retire. In baseball,Willie Mays stayed too long too.

Warren Moon says hello.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Nope...just, nope.

Maybe it wasn't "fair" that Montana lost his job due to injury, and due respect to Joe that he was beaten down out of a very close NFCCG in '91 against the NYG in his last start as a Niner whilst getting closer to a 3-peat than anyone has, but you are talking about a season in which STEVE YOUNG WAS THE MVP OF THE NFL and Montana hadn't started a game (and had only played in one, albeit well, albeit the Lions) in most of 2 seasons. If Montana started that game, he might be dead.

Hell I rooted for the guy in KC, but it was pretty clear based on the remainder of his career that SF made the right choice given what was left of Joe.

I'm in the 'TB 4eva' club but I think your memory is playing tricks on you here.

I watched quite a bit of them that year, and my opinion then and now is unchanged (thanks for your input though, and of course you're right). It would have taken some serious insight, or foresight, for Shula to sit Earl Morrall (also MVP) vs. the Jets, and I don't think anybody expected him to have such a bad day. But Shula did go with Griese in the '72 playoffs even though he was just active in time. It's like this for me: when game time is approaching, it's time to put up or shut up. Seifert likely didn't see things the way I did, and also likely didn't have the stones to start Joe. I obviously do not think he would have struggled as you do; the bottom line is this: Given that we must do whatever it takes to win this game, I saw no alternative to starting Montana. Among other things, the Cowboys prepared for Steve. Similarly, starting Grogan in SBXX was a must for several reasons: Eason had the flu, was simply not equipped to handle what the Bears were going to present, and Grogan had the experience, toughness and ability to manage a game in which every possession counted; furthermore Grogan was the single main reason the team was even competitive that year, and they needed to slow the game down as much as possible (IOW do the exact opposite Berry planned...Marino was not on our team) to at least give us a chance in what would obviously have been a monumental, historic upset. I obviously consider Grogan and Montana to be far superior QB's to Eason and Young, respectively.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I love you too Joker! ??

>dabbing my eyes with handkerchief, sniffling, playing Elton John

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Do you have public statements to this effect? Better yet, do you have a contractual document to this effect agreed to by all parties, with objective criteria we can measure to determine whether Brady "may" be benched, and when/if the team may trade Brady? I'm not a contracts guy, but if you don't have that, go into the next few seasons with the knowledge that stuff can happen. Doesn't mean it will.

Look I agree with you, that from what I see of him publicly thus far, that he absolutely wants to play his whole career in NE. I also think that Joe Montana for most of his career wanted to play his whole career in SF. There was probably a solid few years where Brett Favrevah wanted to spend his entire career in Green Bay.

What if the "Kraft Hate Brigade" is right, and everybody thinks the team "threw him under the bus?" What if he internalizes the viewpoint that BB "threw him under the bus" at the very beginning of framegate? Hell you want me to spell out a doom and gloom scenario it's easy to do. He figures "Screw it, Goodell wants my ass dead as long as I'm in this uniform, they're going to cheat, it's that simple," goes over to the JEST, Goodell awards the JEST compensatory picks for getting him (somehow,) the JEST go nuts at the WR and OL position, ratings bonanza. Hell, dissolve the Competition Committee replacing it with Woody Johnson, the man so nice they named him after genitals twice. A bit of hyperbole there but you get the drift.

So I don't believe the tale I just told (above), a top secret tin-foil-helmet conspiracy to get him another ring and 6000 passing yards. I just don't believe anybody or anything that says "Never gonna happen" regarding an NFL* player.

He's shown us rafts of good faith.

However, his stated viewpoint is he'll keep playing "until he sucks," and Belichick's observed behavior pattern is "better a year early than a year late."

One day the two could conceivably collide. "I don't suck yet" will collide with "Is he starting to suck, and does this year constitute "a year early"?"

I hope that's a few years away. I truly hope it never happens. I hope if it does happen the team has the juice to veto in-division trades.

On the other hand, this happened (since all the HOF coverage is out there reminding us of Favrevruh). Now granted, today we'd characterize Favrevruh's upbringing as continual child abuse... which we don't think Brady ever had... by the time he left he was hell bent for leather to come back and screw his old team.



I see no indications of this recurring in Brady's case. The more likely scenario is a Montana-to-KC type deal (out of conference if possible, definitely out of division.) And most likely, it's many years away, not something precipitated by 4 good games unless Brady collapses this year.

But think of what you've seen of Brady when the chips are REALLY down. YOU HAVEN'T. A month or two stretch here or there = Brady with the chips down. No question that he's the franchise QB since he ran out Drew. Zero to go by.

I'm just saying we want it to be different for us, we hope it is different for us, but we have no evidence that it will be different for us. It's not a lock. It is what it is, we'll only know when we know, as disheartening as that is.

Do I see it being this year b/c a JAG (with a 1 in 26 chance of actually having the initials "JAG") wins 4 games impressively? Derr again. No.

Do I see a controversy if, against expectations, Brady "just can't get right" this year, they back into the playoffs, and they have to decide who to go with? Given that UNLIKELY scenario, yes.

Unfortunately in 3, 4, 5 years... we will more likely in each passing year to face that or a similar scenario.

I just do not think that year will be this year.

Sorry for the novel.

So, can we boil that down to "maybe?"

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Ok - here is what is going to be an unpopular opinion. At the end of the first 4 weeks of the season, nobody is going to think that Jimmy G. is better than Brady. We are going to thank our lucky stars that Brady is back and hope he can pull our season out of the proverbial toilet and get us to the playoffs.

This is my opinion only, obviously, but I think we are going to get our arses kicked all over the field on opening night on national tv in AZ. The scrimmage against Brady the other day is a harbinger of things to come. Novice vs. Experienced with something to prove, and it ain't going to be pretty. Jimmy G is going to come out of the AZ game shell-shocked and I hope he can recover enough to win 2 of the next 3, but it's not going to be easy, because we again have no running game to help him out. Lewis won't be ready (something I have been worried about since the first day of training camp when he was nowhere to be found). Blount stinks, IMO. His only talent is running over defenses in the 2nd half when they are tired. He can't help you in the first half when Jimmy G. needs someone to take the pressure off. Blount up the middle for 2, incompletion, sack. Ugh. Over and over.

Then 2 out of 3 games against teams with good Ds in our division which have been built to stop Brady. The only game we might have a shot of winning is Houston, if they don't have JJ Watt, but even then they have Bill O'Brien who knows our offense.

Our only saving grace might be our D if they can get a lot of turnovers and shorten the field for Ghost and Jimmy G.

My opinion is obviously colored by my anger at the NFL for intentionally trying to make my team lose. I hope I am dead wrong, but I feel like I'm dead right.

Flame away.

Can't argue with that. It's a reasonable scenario. Many of us believe in our heart of hearts that 2--2 is the best outcome we can hope for.

The alternative reality view is that Belichick gets into Palmer's head and the Cardinals choke it up under the pressure of undoing the Playoff loss on national TV and that brings something better into the picture.

 

[1960Pats]

Ok - here is what is going to be an unpopular opinion. At the end of the first 4 weeks of the season, nobody is going to think that Jimmy G. is better than Brady. We are going to thank our lucky stars that Brady is back and hope he can pull our season out of the proverbial toilet and get us to the playoffs.

This is my opinion only, obviously, but I think we are going to get our arses kicked all over the field on opening night on national tv in AZ. The scrimmage against Brady the other day is a harbinger of things to come. Novice vs. Experienced with something to prove, and it ain't going to be pretty. Jimmy G is going to come out of the AZ game shell-shocked and I hope he can recover enough to win 2 of the next 3, but it's not going to be easy, because we again have no running game to help him out. Lewis won't be ready (something I have been worried about since the first day of training camp when he was nowhere to be found). Blount stinks, IMO. His only talent is running over defenses in the 2nd half when they are tired. He can't help you in the first half when Jimmy G. needs someone to take the pressure off. Blount up the middle for 2, incompletion, sack. Ugh. Over and over.

Then 2 out of 3 games against teams with good Ds in our division which have been built to stop Brady. The only game we might have a shot of winning is Houston, if they don't have JJ Watt, but even then they have Bill O'Brien who knows our offense.

Our only saving grace might be our D if they can get a lot of turnovers and shorten the field for Ghost and Jimmy G.

My opinion is obviously colored by my anger at the NFL for intentionally trying to make my team lose. I hope I am dead wrong, but I feel like I'm dead right.

Flame away.

No problem with the length of your response. I get the same way sometimes.

I don't disagree that Brady might end up somewhere else, but it won't be the Jets.

Tom Brady on Hard Knocks: "I hate the Jets. I refuse to watch the show."

 

[1960Pats]

Yeah. Blanda played into his late 40's. And, Tom doesn't rely that much on athletic ability. He does seem to have the knack for avoiding serious injuries.

 

[The Brandon Five]

Trade the GOAT because you have the GOTC (Greatest of Training Camp)? In a word, no.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Is the Sky Falling Down yet? *checks outside* Nope. It isn't.

Brady is a franchise QB, but you've got to remember that this is a football T-E-A-M. We won 11 games with Matt Cassell as our starting QB for an ENTIRE season. I have greater belief in BB to prepare his team to win than apparently you do.

One win or One loss does not a season make. Whether or not we win against Arizona, who knows, that does nothing to affect an entire 4 week stretch. BB has been dogged in his 1 game at a time approach, and I trust in him and the team to take the games 1 at a time, and immediately forget the previous one.

Obviously the Patriots have been cheated by Roger Goodell of the presence of their best QB for the first four games. But we're tougher than that and we'll find a way to survive. Regardless of how JG does, and I believe he will at least pull out 2-2 considering the team he has around him, we're going to win this division and we'll make a deep push in the playoffs as always. I mean seriously, who do you think in the AFCE has the chops to contend with us? The Jets, the Dolphins, or is your dark horse the Bills? I'm not buying it. We will win at least 4/6 division clashes as usual and have the Division Title all but sewed up by December.

There's no QB controversy in New England. Please leave the sensationalism to the media hacks who cover this team. Moving on.

Ok - here is what is going to be an unpopular opinion. At the end of the first 4 weeks of the season, nobody is going to think that Jimmy G. is better than Brady. We are going to thank our lucky stars that Brady is back and hope he can pull our season out of the proverbial toilet and get us to the playoffs.

This is my opinion only, obviously, but I think we are going to get our arses kicked all over the field on opening night on national tv in AZ. The scrimmage against Brady the other day is a harbinger of things to come. Novice vs. Experienced with something to prove, and it ain't going to be pretty. Jimmy G is going to come out of the AZ game shell-shocked and I hope he can recover enough to win 2 of the next 3, but it's not going to be easy, because we again have no running game to help him out. Lewis won't be ready (something I have been worried about since the first day of training camp when he was nowhere to be found). Blount stinks, IMO. His only talent is running over defenses in the 2nd half when they are tired. He can't help you in the first half when Jimmy G. needs someone to take the pressure off. Blount up the middle for 2, incompletion, sack. Ugh. Over and over.

Then 2 out of 3 games against teams with good Ds in our division which have been built to stop Brady. The only game we might have a shot of winning is Houston, if they don't have JJ Watt, but even then they have Bill O'Brien who knows our offense.

Our only saving grace might be our D if they can get a lot of turnovers and shorten the field for Ghost and Jimmy G.

My opinion is obviously colored by my anger at the NFL for intentionally trying to make my team lose. I hope I am dead wrong, but I feel like I'm dead right.

Flame away.