If Brady expects to be "considered" the best.....

[Fixit]

If it just hit him in the head, it would have bounced off. He obviously got his hand on it. I'm not disagreeing with you that it was lucky. When did I say otherwise?

You might actually be related to Deus.

 

[New England Seahawks]

He didn't drop it, Sterling Moore knocked it out of his grasp. It was a good defensive play. People seem to forget that as well.

Maybe. Maybe not. I'd have to look at it again to say for sure. But the fact is, that's not how most people saw it.

 

[Fixit]

Maybe. Maybe not. I'd have to look at it again to say for sure. But the fact is, that's not how most people saw it.

If you are actually "maybe/maybe not" on whether or not that was knocked out of his hands, you should stop watching football.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

And which bandwagon would that be exactly? How many superbowls have the Seahawks won again? Oh yeah...

You don't have to follow a team that has won a recent super bowl to be considered a bandwagoner. However, i've never seen you on this forum before, and this is the best year by far in seahawks history so...

 

[New England Seahawks]

You don't have to follow a team that has won a recent super bowl to be considered a bandwagoner. However, i've never seen you on this forum before, and this is the best year by far in seahawks history so...

Seeing as how I live in New England, if I were a "bandwagoner", you'd think I would've jumped on the Pats bandwagon years ago.

 

[Sivy]

And Eli's throw to Tynes was catchable, and he made the catch. Yet, every one of you say it was "*********", "luck", etc.

I was more mad at the fact that Eli was in the grasp than the catch. The catch never should have had a chance to happen. Refs should know all the rules of the game.

 

[New England Seahawks]

If you are actually "maybe/maybe not" on whether or not that was knocked out of his hands, you should stop watching football.

Ok, I just saw a reply of it. You're right, he knocked it out of hands. But if Evans secures the ball instead of reeling it in casually, then that's a TD.

 

[Sivy]

Heh, I got their names mixed up. My point is, I'm just using that same logic with regard to the Welker catch. Yes, Brady's throw was a bit off, but it was catchable. Eli's throw to Tyree )) was catchable and it was caught...although in a lucky way.

In BOTH cases, it's on the QB to make the throw and on the WR to make the catch. Nobody talks about dropped passes when you talk about big games. Nobody remembers that Flacco threw a ball on the money in the AFCCG and the receiver dropped it. They just remember that the Pats were in the superbowl, and the Ravens came up short yet again.

The cornerback knocked the ball out, thats why no one talks about it, becaue it was a good play by the D, not a bad play by the WR

 

[Fixit]

Ok, I just saw a reply of it. You're right, he knocked it out of hands. But if Evans secures the ball instead of reeling it in casually, then that's a TD.

On that, we can agree. But I wouldn't like him as much if he had done that.

 

[Kontradiction]

If it just hit him in the head, it would have bounced off. He obviously got his hand on it. I'm not disagreeing with you that it was lucky. When did I say otherwise?

He got his hand on it by lifting his hands up in order to do so and was then able to keep the nose of the ball from hitting the ground. The Giants have always gotten extremely lucky in that regard. Compare that to Brady's pass hitting Welker dead in the hands with Welker unable to come down with it. Further, Brady drove the team to a touchdown in Super Bowl XLII to take the lead with a couple of minutes to go only to see the defense choke. How was that in any way Brady's fault?

 

[josh24]

Here is Sterling Moore's strip on last year's AFCCG:

Proof that lee Evans did not catch the ball - YouTube

 

[patsfan13]

Getting back to the topic. Brady if he retired today has a good case to be called the GOAT, if he wins another SB, he is a lock, win 2 of the next 4 with his 'normal' reg season and there isn't any other QB of the modern era who is even in the conversation.

 

[MassPats38]

Seriously, why do some of you keep bringing up the Seahawks? Are fans of other teams not allowed to contribute an UNBIASED opinion on the topic? Is this how you guys treat all members who are fans of different teams?

That would likely be a result of the name you chose.

You are actually arguing that great QBs may have somehow traversed the entire football field (80 or 71 yards to pay dirt), or a good portion of it (say 60 yards), in seconds (less than one minute in both cases). If that position is not trolling and blatantly ridiculous against a very good defense, if Montana or Manning or Elway could do it on the biggest of stages (see "The Drive" by Elway - 98 yards in 5 minutes+), find an example that makes it otherwise less than ridiculous. The fact a heave may end up in the right hands is not greatness. Brady would not be defined as great if Gronkowski jumps a split second later and catches the ball for the win on a Hail Mary throw. That would be lucky.

The discussion is the greatest of all time, and this is your response as to why Brady is not all that. If you want people to treat you as offering intelligent insight, try explaining how great QBs would consistently complete drives under those constraints in the time given. Provide some hyperlinks to actual title games rather than an apparently goofy opinion. Then people will take you seriously.

 

[Kid~Brady]

Ok, I just saw a reply of it. You're right, he knocked it out of hands. But if Evans secures the ball instead of reeling it in casually, then that's a TD.

Exactly, hence me calling this a good defensive play, but we forget about this for some reason.

 

[SVN]

Depends who 'considers' it. Media will always consider manning to be greater than brady and greatest ever unless brady wins 6-7 wins. Even then they will attribute it to system and bb and all that.

 

[New England Seahawks]

That would likely be a result of the name you chose.

You are actually arguing that great QBs may have somehow traversed the entire football field (80 or 71 yards to pay dirt), or a good portion of it (say 60 yards), in seconds (less than one minute in both cases). If that position is not trolling and blatantly ridiculous against a very good defense, if Montana or Manning or Elway could do it on the biggest of stages (see "The Drive" by Elway - 98 yards in 5 minutes+), find an example that makes it otherwise less than ridiculous. The fact a heave may end up in the right hands is not greatness. Brady would not be defined as great if Gronkowski jumps a split second later and catches the ball for the win on a Hail Mary throw. That would be lucky.

The discussion is the greatest of all time, and this is your response as to why Brady is not all that. If you want people to treat you as offering intelligent insight, try explaining how great QBs would consistently complete drives under those constraints in the time given. Provide some hyperlinks to actual title games rather than an apparently goofy opinion. Then people will take you seriously.

Going 80 yards for a TD with almost minute left on the clock and 1 timeout is blatantly ridiculous? It's been done before...MANY times. Too many to remember. Here's one...2007 AFC championship game. You should remember this one. Peyton Manning and Co. drove from their own 20 yd line to the New England 10 yd line in 19 seconds. No hail marys. No lucky helmet catches. Some well executed big plays downfield and one 15-yd foul for roughing the passer. And before you discredit that drive by saying something about the Pats defense, I suggest you look at their defensive statistics for the 2006/2007 season.

I entered this discussion simply refuting someone's claim that those two superbowl losses (+ the 49ers and Ravens losses from this season) were someone else's fault. Fact is, Tom Brady has not been clutch lately. Fact is, in recent years, the Patriots have been on the losing end of the stick on close games more often than not.

I never said Tom Brady is "not all that". I would actually be an agreement with most people here that he should at the very least be in the conversation for GOAT.

 

[Deus Irae]

Going 80 yards for a TD with almost minute left on the clock and 1 timeout is blatantly ridiculous? It's been done before...MANY times. Too many to remember. Here's one...2007 AFC championship game. You should remember this one. Peyton Manning and Co. drove from their own 20 yd line to the New England 10 yd line in 19 seconds. No hail marys. No lucky helmet catches. Some well executed big plays downfield and one 15-yd foul for roughing the passer. And before you discredit that drive by saying something about the Pats defense, I suggest you look at their defensive statistics for the 2006/2007 season.

I entered this discussion simply refuting someone's claim that those two superbowl losses (+ the 49ers and Ravens losses from this season) were someone else's fault. Fact is, Tom Brady has not been clutch lately. Fact is, in recent years, the Patriots have been on the losing end of the stick on close games more often than not.

I never said Tom Brady is "not all that". I would actually be an agreement with most people here that he should at the very least be in the conversation for GOAT.

Those types of comebacks are rare for multiple reasons.

 

[New England Seahawks]

Those types of comebacks are rare for multiple reasons.

Yes, but great QBs (like Manning and Brady), and even some mediocre ones, have done it. If you recall last year's superbowl...people were saying how the Giants scored too early -- that they left Tom Brady too much time on the clock.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yes, but great QBs (like Manning and Brady), and even some mediocre ones, have done it. If you recall last year's superbowl...people were saying how the Giants scored too early -- that they left Tom Brady too much time on the clock.

Let me put this bluntly (hoping to avoid confusion, not trying to be mean):

They are rare because you've got too many factors against them. Expecting them to happen, especially in the playoffs, is stupid as a result.

Brady, for example, has led "Go ahead" 4th quarter drives in both Super Bowl losses, yet that gets lost in the shuffle, because people like yourself focus only on the one drive at the very end. Go look at those drives over the past two playoff seasons, see how many happened, and see who the QBs were. I think you'll be surprised at what you find.

 

[TBradyOwnsYou]

To be considered the GOAT, he needs to have more SB rings than Peyton has regular season MVPs. Until then, the media won't care.