Idle Thoughts - the Poker Tourney edition.

[PatsDeb]

Players need to know that actions have consequences, even if you're perceived to be the starter at your position. Notice how the RBs yesterday were hugging the ball? Message received.

I wish the best for Rids and hope he responds effectively to coaching. Do your job Ivan Fears.

Did anyone else think that Ridley was made to stand on the sidelines for the entire game with a ball in his hands that he was ordered "not to put on the ground" for the whole game? It was weird that he was standing there with a ball in his hands the whole time...

 

[oldskool138]

Did anyone else think that Ridley was made to stand on the sidelines for the entire game with a ball in his hands that he was ordered "not to put on the ground" for the whole game? It was weird that he was standing there with a ball in his hands the whole time...

I'd bet my next paycheck he was.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

For three quarters of the game I watched the game waiting for my tournament to start. So I haven’t read anything on the board so if your pardon any redundancies I might make I will spare you the 2 bad beat stories that cost me my chance at the championship. (you have to be both good and LUCKY to win )

Lets get the negativity out of the way first.

1. Do you want to know why the Pats have looked so bad on run defense the last 2 weeks, you have to look no further than the ILB’s Mostly Hightower and Spikes. The announcers made it look like it was the Pats NT/DT’s, but believe me, I thought they did a decent job moving down the line. What we weren’t getting was ANY fill from our ILB. Nothing - Zero - Ziltch.

Those of you with the benefit of replay will want to confirm this later this week. But I was watched specifically and both Spikes and Hightower were rarely there to fill gaps. Spikes in particular pissed me off because he just seemed to be guessing a gap and just running into it. If the RB was stupid enough to run that gap it was a stop, but most of the time it wasn’t and Spikes was no where to help

So while Spikes was just guessing wrong most of the time, Hightower found it very difficult to shed blocks. Something you would think would be an asset for a 270lb LB. But Texan G’s seemed to adhere to Dant’a like Velcro most of the time.

It was awful. I just was thinking that when was the last time we saw 2 TD’s runs against the Pats that were longer than 10 yds, when they ran in a 3rd of 8yds that could have been 38 All three untouched into the end zone. It was HORRIFYING.

2. I’m sure Chandler Jones didn’t have a bad game, just not the one I’d expect from a team’s best player on the defensive front. Not once did he ever just “beat” his man. Every time he did put pressure on Keenum it was a pure effort rush that created pressure due to good coverage as much as a good rush. In a depleted D, we are going to need a lot more from our “star” players

3. I’m just as disappointed that the coaches didn’t scheme some stunts and/or blitzes for the D. It wasn’t until the last 2 series of the game that they seemed to dial up any real aggressive D’s and not surprisingly, they worked rather well. Where were they the OTHER 55 minutes of the game, Matt?

4. After a masterful performance against the Broncos on pass defense, they made some grievous mental errors in the secondary. I haven’t seen guys that open down field this entire season. There were several break downs where someone messed up big time. Hard to blame people without knowing the assignment, but I AM sure that there are people who aren’t looking forward to Monday’s film breakdown. And to add insult to injury, the tackling was at its worst for several games as well.

5. Relative to him, Brady didn’t excel in the first half either. The pick he threw to Gronk should have been a completion. Gronk was well behind the defender and Brady just under threw it badly.

BTW- this is just a perfect example of the vagaries of being a DB in the NFL. If Brady throws a good pass, Texan fans and media are all over his case for being beaten so badly. The pass is just a bit under thrown and he’s a hero for making the pick. Not much of a margin between success and failure for an NFL DB

And there were other passes that Brady threw to the wrong shoulder or to the wrong man and the usual miss of a long pass to an open receiver ….again, A more accurate pass might have spared Thomkins an injury as well as gained more yds. Over all it would have been a career game for some QB’s but for our Tommy, he’s going to need to be better the next 3 weeks.

6. I stated in another thread, if Ridley being a healthy scratch is about LAST week, I’m against his benching. If its about some continuing problems during the week, then I certainly understand. Too bad we’ll never know.

That being said, this wasn’t a great run D, and you can see where we miss Steven. However, when he isn’t running the ball, I want to see Vareen and Blount with it, not Bolden. I like the way Vareen runs the ball and I’m REALLY liking the way Blount has been recently.

I understand that he can’t put the ball on the ground, but he’s the guy who makes our running game better than average. We are going to need him in the playoffs, so now is the time to build him back up so he’s on all cylinders come playoff time

Now the Positive stuff

1. I was one of those who didn’t see the purpose in giving up ANY draft picks for LaGarrett Blout. And believe me, nothing he did the first half of the season did anything to change my mind. He was STILL that guy who was 250lbs and ran soft, didn’t fall forward, and danced in holes looking for the big play.

Well stock up ANOTHER one up to BB and his staff, because the LaGarrett Blount I’ve seen the last 3 games is EXACTLY what we hoped he would be, which is a 250 lb wrecking ball bulling his way into holes and pushing the pile every time he gets the ball.

I have no idea what they said to him, or what they did, but that isn’t the same guy who was with the team the first 2 and half months of the season. Now that kid is an asset.

2. Julian Edelman is going to wind up with over 90 catches and 900 yds this regular season and finally put to rest those who maligned him for the last 3 years. You know who you are, and very few have come out to admit those mistakes. He is NOT a WR you build your offense around, but his can be a valuable PIECE. He’s very versatile and runs the tough routes. I hope the Pats can resign him, though I think it will take something in the order of $3MM/yr to do it.

3. The Gronk truly has the most impact of any offensive player not playing the QB position in the league. His TD was simply AWESOME. But what he does on a play by play basis both in the passing and run game is way above the passing impact that other great receiving TE’s , like Jimmy Graham bring to the table. Like the other’s Gronk now is there to attack all areas of the field. He has the body control of a diva WR, so he can split wide, and the blocking ability of a top FB/TE so he not only makes your running game go, but makes the play action pass game so much more effective.

God I hope his ankle is alright.

4. The OL did a very nice job against an excellent front 7, especially in the 2nd half. Dante does a great job figuring out how to quickly adjust to even the most successful of schemes other coaches come up with. Very rarely do they work more than once.

5. The virtual absence of penalty flags was such a breadth of fresh air, I could hardly believe it. The game is SO much better when there isn’t a penalty flag dropping every other play.

General Comments

1. We can’t keep giving up double digit leads and hope to keep winning these games. How’s that for stating the obvious. .

2. I thought Keenan did a really nice job. He obviously throws a very nice deep ball. I was surprised however when I saw the stats. Watching the game I was left with a clear impression that he had thrown for a lot better than a 50% completion rate. Maybe the 2ndary did better than I thought.

3. This game couldn’t have worked out better for the Texans. They have to feel pretty good about themselves. They played a hard game against a good team, that they could have won. They may have found themselves their next QB, and in the end they didn’t drop a single slot in their quest for a top 3 draft pick next April. Win-Win- Win

4. Just something to keep an eye on, but since his bye, Wes Welker has averaged only 5 catches, around 40 yds per game, and no TD’s. Is the “lillte engine that could” running out of gas, or just in a slump after a super hot start.

5. Andre Johnson could be my favorite non-Patriot in the league. The guy is just SOOOOOOO good. Imagine what his numbers could have been if he’d spent 5 or 6 years on a team with a really good QB. They’d have been Jerry Rice like.

6. The next 4 games are ALL going to be much harder, starting with Browns who have been competitive and it will be another “superbowl game” for them so we will get their best. Then our old friend the Ravens in Baltimore. Then a desperate Miami team at home, likely still looking for a playoff bid, and finishing up against a Bills team that keeps losing despite playing very competitively, and another team playing for their jobs in “their” superbowl game.

The offense is coming along fine, but the defense HAS to make improvements…..AND get healthier somehow if we are looking at a bye and a long run in the playoffs.

Comments?

Interesting thinking ken

Although I don't understand why you seem to think we will be seeing Houston again in playoffs.......they are 2-10.

 

[FalconHeavy]

Did anyone else think that Ridley was made to stand on the sidelines for the entire game with a ball in his hands that he was ordered "not to put on the ground" for the whole game? It was weird that he was standing there with a ball in his hands the whole time...

Keep holding on to the ball son, until it becomes a second nature ...

 

[DarrylS]

Speaking of negativity

Belicheat and Cheating Cheatriots Back At It ? Boston Sports Media Watch

Unfortunately, negativity keeps folks interested.. and creates the barometer of success(facebook likes or twitter followers)..

Steve from Fall River made another idiotic call.... it goes on and on, find myself listening to sportstalk less and less....

 

[patsfanincleveland]

Speaking of negativity

Belicheat and Cheating Cheatriots Back At It ? Boston Sports Media Watch

That is an outstanding, well written article.

Naturally one can add all these nonsense "defense sucks" threads here at patsfans.com to the long list.

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

I agree with Patfanken that the ILB play is more of an issue than the the DL. Maybe the young DL dudes along Sopaga don't command double teams much but time after time when they showed replays alleging poor DL action it look tome that the DL was, as panfanken said, sliding to the ball pretty stoutly but there was just no to tackle the runner because the ILBs so often were invisible.

 

[patfanken]

I agree with Patfanken that the ILB play is more of an issue than the the DL. Maybe the young DL dudes along Sopaga don't command double teams much but time after time when they showed replays alleging poor DL action it look tome that the DL was, as panfanken said, sliding to the ball pretty stoutly but there was just no to tackle the runner because the ILBs so often were invisible.

It IS the ILB play that has been the cause of the running game melt down. Various replays I've seen over the last day haven't done anything to change my mind, but rather confirms the prognosis.

Part of the problem might be the extensive use of the 3-4 on Sunday. Its a D that Hightower isn't very familiar with, while it was the basic D for Spikes rookie year. There is no question in my mind that BOTH Spikes and Hightower have the capability to effectively shed guards firing directly out on them, the fact they haven't had to in a few years could be the problem.

If I can ask a favor of someone who gets the instant replay each week? Could you go back to the Carolina game and check out what the Pats ere running that was working so well in that game. Remember I don't think the Carolina RB's managed 50 rushing yds collectively. So I know we CAN play good run defense with the talent available. Most of the problems in the Denver game were schematic (though not to the degree that occurred)

The problems from the Houston game were caused (IMHO) by poor ILB. On most of those long TD runs by Tate the ILB's were no where to be seen. The DL wasn't great, but they were at least moving to the ball. They weren't getting blown out. They were being asked to cover too much ground because the LB's weren't in the hole. It seemed like Hightower was being blocked and couldn't shed, and Spikes was taking himself out of the play.

So some or all of these things have to start happening if this is going to improve.

1. We can't play the 3-4 any more. Which is sad because the 3-4 originally gained in popularity BECAUSE it was an excellent front against the run. (also its easier to disguise your rush and stunt)

2. We can play the 3-4, but we'll need much better execution from the ILB's

3. Or there will have to be an attacking aggressive movement based DL play designed so the LB's are freed up to run to the ball and are no longer asked to stand and take on blockers directly.

4. Mayo, Wilfolk Kelly, and Armstead, can all take a trip to Lordes, PLUS turn back time to before they were put on IR.

 

[Mike the Brit]

Great post, as always, Ken. Thanks.

If you can afford to play in poker tournaments, surely you can afford NFL Rewind. Would love to hear what you think of the run defense after you've seen the All-22.

Two comments on that to pass on I'd love to hear your thoughts about.

One came (I think) from Fauria after the game. He said that Spikes seemed to be running on one leg -- was clearly hurting. The other from Bruschi. He said how tough it is to keep your concentration on run defense when the O-line is cut-blocking from behind and you can't help worrying about what will happen to your legs. (Ah, Box O Rocks, where are you now, buddy?)

 

[bigballas]

For three quarters of the game I watched the game waiting for my tournament to start. So I haven’t read anything on the board so if your pardon any redundancies I might make I will spare you the 2 bad beat stories that cost me my chance at the championship. (you have to be both good and LUCKY to win )

Comments?

What site you playing tourneys on?!?!?!

 

[supafly]

It IS the ILB play that has been the cause of the running game melt down. Various replays I've seen over the last day haven't done anything to change my mind, but rather confirms the prognosis.

Part of the problem might be the extensive use of the 3-4 on Sunday. Its a D that Hightower isn't very familiar with, while it was the basic D for Spikes rookie year. There is no question in my mind that BOTH Spikes and Hightower have the capability to effectively shed guards firing directly out on them, the fact they haven't had to in a few years could be the problem.

If I can ask a favor of someone who gets the instant replay each week? Could you go back to the Carolina game and check out what the Pats ere running that was working so well in that game. Remember I don't think the Carolina RB's managed 50 rushing yds collectively. So I know we CAN play good run defense with the talent available. Most of the problems in the Denver game were schematic (though not to the degree that occurred)

The problems from the Houston game were caused (IMHO) by poor ILB. On most of those long TD runs by Tate the ILB's were no where to be seen. The DL wasn't great, but they were at least moving to the ball. They weren't getting blown out. They were being asked to cover too much ground because the LB's weren't in the hole. It seemed like Hightower was being blocked and couldn't shed, and Spikes was taking himself out of the play.

So some or all of these things have to start happening if this is going to improve.

1. We can't play the 3-4 any more. Which is sad because the 3-4 originally gained in popularity BECAUSE it was an excellent front against the run. (also its easier to disguise your rush and stunt)

The problem in my opinion is that our guys up front are not suited to be able to tie up blockers, shed blocks themselves, or get any leverage on the opposition's line.

That in turn, allows the offensive line players to get to the next level and then take on the ILB's that you are speaking of. Unfortunately, they don't seem to be doing too well either, but I honestly think that the problem lies more in the front line players of Vellano/Jones who regularly get tossed aside as if they were in junior high by the supreme talent of the NFL. I find that as more of the problem myself, but you may feel differently.

It was interesting to see Doug Kyed's opinion on much of the same in his breakdown:

Linebackers should be given some slack

"I see so many complaints about Hightower that it’s almost hard to track them all. He certainly has not been Jerod Mayo 2.0, but consider that Mayo never had to deal with life without Vince Wilfork. For most snaps, the Patriots don’t have a defensive tackle that can eat up multiple blockers. If Chris Jones and Vellano are getting single teamed, it opens up blockers to move downfield to take on Hightower and Spikes. Mayo was able to roam much freer in years’ past.

It’s concerning that Hightower can’t shed blockers more, but he’s always having to wade through traffic because his defensive tackles are getting treated like rag dolls in the run defense. That’s not to say we should start placing blame on Vellano and Jones. They’re just rookies and neither player is a traditional nose tackle. But Hightower and Spikes should be given some slack because what they’re working with up front."

Read more at: Dont?a Hightower?s Struggles Tied in to Inexperience at Defensive Tackle and Other Takeaways From Patriots-Texans | New England Patriots | NESN.com

 

[Sticky Caulk]

Did anyone else think that Ridley was made to stand on the sidelines for the entire game with a ball in his hands that he was ordered "not to put on the ground" for the whole game? It was weird that he was standing there with a ball in his hands the whole time...

I wouldn't doubt someone he talked to (Faulk?) probably mentioned something like this and he decided to follow suit. It's part showing he's serious to the team and fans but also actually being serious about the problem. Always a good sign.

 

[pencilneckgeek]

Good stuff, Ken. As annoying as it gets, the winning despite themselves motif has some validity and makes for some good conversation.

1. Do you want to know why the Pats have looked so bad on run defense the last 2 weeks, you have to look no further than the ILB’s Mostly Hightower and Spikes. The announcers made it look like it was the Pats NT/DT’s, but believe me, I thought they did a decent job moving down the line. What we weren’t getting was ANY fill from our ILB. Nothing - Zero - Ziltch.

I tend to agree, but I think Supafly hit a key point here. If they don't need to chip, let alone double team at the DL level, guards get an clean shot at the ILBs. Hightower definitely needs to get off blocks better than that, and despite his and Spikes' success blowing-up pulling guards in the past, it's a lot harder to do that when you are flowing to meet zone-blocking runs, than if you can shoot a gap to disrupt a play that has a clear point of attack. This is something that the Pats have had trouble with in the past. In some respects, I'd rather see Jones and Vellano 1-gap to disrupt the flow of the OL than 2-gap, as that suits their skillset better, but that would also leave large holes for the ILB to fill at times.

3. I’m just as disappointed that the coaches didn’t scheme some stunts and/or blitzes for the D. It wasn’t until the last 2 series of the game that they seemed to dial up any real aggressive D’s and not surprisingly, they worked rather well. Where were they the OTHER 55 minutes of the game, Matt?

I think this ties back into their approach to preventing the run. It's tough to 2-gap and then stunt, as you don't get the push. If you're on the lookout for inside hand-offs, stunts take longer to develop, and I suspect they were wary of running a twist or the like, as they could find their DL with bad leverage against a run. Having seen how badly they did against the run 2-gapping, they started sending Spikes upfield earlier, which helped disrupt a few plays, probably figuring it sure beat him going upfield too late for a play that flowed past him, as he was for much of the game.

4. After a masterful performance against the Broncos on pass defense, they made some grievous mental errors in the secondary. I haven’t seen guys that open down field this entire season. There were several break downs where someone messed up big time. Hard to blame people without knowing the assignment, but I AM sure that there are people who aren’t looking forward to Monday’s film breakdown. And to add insult to injury, the tackling was at its worst for several games as well.

I think this is a one-game thing. I think the combination of a banged-up and young secondary and a desire to keep everybody looking upfield to defend the run (not to mention using plenty of Hightower and Spikes) and perhaps some thoughts about disguising coverages against a rookie QB had BB thinking zone and that led to a number of breakdowns in the first half. One would hope that going to man in the 2nd half would have helped, but sometimes when an offense gets a rhythm, it's hard to break it.

 

[UK_Pat37]

I personally think it's more to do with our D Line. Why are we playing a 3-4 with our personnel up front? Are they really 3-4 guys? The whole point of being a 3-4 lineman is to draw double teams and enable your LBs to be freed up to make plays. If Guards are getting in to the second level and taking on our LBs, our DEs/NT aren't doing enough!!!!

A 3-4 relies on drawing double teams! If teams feel like they can take all three of your D Line on with one-on-ones then, in essence, you're screwed.

For me, watching back on the last couple of games, the other team's OL is having far too much success blocking one-on-one and enabling their guards to push up.

 

[SacPete1]

Although their base defense in both the Carolina and Houston games was a 3-4 (against a 2 WR offense), I noticed the DE's (Valleno and Chris Jones) were playing wider in the Houston game. In Carolina, they often lined up on the inside of the tackles which made Chandler and Rob tighter as well (just outside the tackle or on the TE. In Houston, there seemed to be more space in the interior.

There was also a camera shot of BB looking at the pictures and shaking his head before handing it over to Pepper specifically. Not a mind reader but since Pepper is the LB coach, it could very well be the BB was not pleased with Hightower and Spikes and was pointing it out to their position coach. This one might be a stretch but plausible.

 

[kennyb]

They need to play a 5-2-4 with 3 guys on the center/B gaaps and two outside the tackles.

That way the linebackers would have free reign to make tackles.

Hightower would be on the line as a DE along with Jones/Ninkovich.

I'll forward this to BB right away.

 

[patfanken]

What site you playing tourneys on?!?!?!

Its the Eastern Poker Tour. They hold series of pub tournaments all over MA/RI/NH on a daily basis. You pay $20 and get a buffet dinner as well. Usually 40-60 players are at each venue (at least the one's I've been}., First prize is only $100 But you also play for points and there are monthly, regional and annual tourneys that you can win some good money at with those points. I'm not sure how that all works, but it interesting on how they do it and keep it legal

I found it a couple of months ago when I was watching a game at a bar where they were playing a tourney later that evening. For me, its great competition, and given they give you about $12 meal, its not at all expensive. I play about twice a week at bars that within 10 minutes of my house. Its pretty cool, if you like poker

They have a site easternpokertour.com

 

[patfanken]

The problem in my opinion is that our guys up front are not suited to be able to tie up blockers, shed blocks themselves, or get any leverage on the opposition's line.

That in turn, allows the offensive line players to get to the next level and then take on the ILB's that you are speaking of. Unfortunately, they don't seem to be doing too well either, but I honestly think that the problem lies more in the front line players of Vellano/Jones who regularly get tossed aside as if they were in junior high by the supreme talent of the NFL. I find that as more of the problem myself, but you may feel differently.

It was interesting to see Doug Kyed's opinion on much of the same in his breakdown:

Linebackers should be given some slack

"I see so many complaints about Hightower that it’s almost hard to track them all. He certainly has not been Jerod Mayo 2.0, but consider that Mayo never had to deal with life without Vince Wilfork. For most snaps, the Patriots don’t have a defensive tackle that can eat up multiple blockers. If Chris Jones and Vellano are getting single teamed, it opens up blockers to move downfield to take on Hightower and Spikes. Mayo was able to roam much freer in years’ past.

It’s concerning that Hightower can’t shed blockers more, but he’s always having to wade through traffic because his defensive tackles are getting treated like rag dolls in the run defense. That’s not to say we should start placing blame on Vellano and Jones. They’re just rookies and neither player is a traditional nose tackle. But Hightower and Spikes should be given some slack because what they’re working with up front."

Read more at: Dont?a Hightower?s Struggles Tied in to Inexperience at Defensive Tackle and Other Takeaways From Patriots-Texans | New England Patriots | NESN.com

Sup, You make your point well (as usual), but in my purely anecdotal and unprofessional observations, it didn't look like the DT's were being blown out as badly as you say. (JMHO). True they might not have been "protecting" the LB's, but in a 3-4 the LB's have to shed as well

The play that is most burnt into my mind was the 20yd TD score. They showed lots of replays. It shows the DL take on the block. He goes down the LOS to the outside and just gets an arm on the RB as he breaks through the hole. The OLB was doubled outside. Spike just ran into the LOS to the inside, and Hightower was no where to be seen in the frame. About 10 yds down field Tate jukes McCourty and goes in untouched.

It didn't look like the DL was being "blown out". Sorry Sup. I played that ILB position for a few years, and no self respecting ILB should EVER be taken on one on one by a G on play to his outside. I can see on a ISO play directly at him, but a LB has to have the agility to avoid and shed single blocks on an outside play. There was no misdirection on this play. It was a simple stretch outside the OT. Christ the off side LB should have been there late, but in enough time to make a tackle after a short gain NEITHER of our guys were even in the freakin picture.

The more I think about it the more I get pissed. If this had happened on the HS level when I was coaching and running a base 3-4 (we called it the 5-2 Okie back then) I would have hit the roof showing it on film. I would have expected better from the my HS LB, let alone professional ones.

Granted this was just one play, but I saw it repeated often on Sunday, and I don't THINK it was an isolated event. I could be wrong. That why I'm asking for a review when the replays come out tomorrow,

Its even more frustrating coming after a game like Carolina where the run defense was outstanding (outside of Newton's scrambles) Purportedly Carolina had a better rushing attack than Houston. I think it would be fascinating to see what we were doing differently in each game.