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Idle thoughts - the morning after....

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by patfanken, Apr 28, 2012.

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  1. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Pro Bowl Player

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    If your so pissed we took Wilson over Iloka then what are your thoughts on trading out of the 5th with Iloka still on the board?
     
  2. BSR

    BSR In the Starting Line-Up

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    According to some, the above is an indication that 32 scouting departments suck. Nobody ever points out that the draftniks "reach" badly on guys like this all the time.
     
  3. patfanken

    patfanken PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Abby as strange as that may seem, it does make a modicum of sense. I think GB is one of those organizations that the Pats have decent relations with. Its not out of the realm of possibility that this was part of a quid pro quo deal.

    Just maybe, now THEY own US one. ;)
     
  4. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Most welcome sentence in the post... I hope you are finally over yourself when you return. He knows more than you ever did or will, ken. If he ran the team as you would have him it would be an unmitigated disaster. I'll take his decade plus track record over your increasingly idle if not addled thoughts seven days a week and twice on Sunday's or during the draft or FA or post Superbowls...

    Can't threaten to hold the 5th rounder against him anymore, now it's multiple end of the draft picks, perhaps to get a jump on the better UDFA's rather than having to compete for them or if someone else wants some to trade back to 2013. How's about if the day two disasters end up playing significant roles and are still here or are playing elsewhere in the league if we can't retain them in past 4 years you stop posting altogether...

    It's becoming increasingly apparent you don't understand how the money works, what the rules entail or how to build a team to play the game the way it is played at this level. There was no quid pro quo or wink and nod agreement for McDonald. All practice squad players are free to negotiate with any team for a spot on a 53 man roster (where they must remain for at least 3 weeks) and there is nothing the team whose practice squad they were on can do to block that once the player and the acquiring team reach an agreement. Just because you don't understand the rules of this league isn't reason to believe every move a team makes must be due to some under the table wink and nod arrangement...

    The agony of defeat you speak of pales in comparison to the agony of your periodic
    overwrought threads about your personal disappointments suffered as a fan of the team with the best damn performance record in the league for over a decade now...

    These aren't the good old days when the ownership was overwhelmed and the management was incompetent. Try observing and learning from a HOF HC/GM instead of persistently second guessing him. You just might learn something in the process.
     
  5. Fencer

    Fencer Pro Bowl Player

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    Ken,

    I have a simpler theory:

    1. BB had a very low opinion of the "consensus 2nd-round grade" group of players that many draftniks were so high on. He worked hard to trade up into the higher tier. After that, he picked in a lower tier. But the "26-75" rated guys didn't interest him much at all.

    2. He didn't do well in maximized trade-down/trade-out value on the second day. It happens. All negotiating strategies are gambles. This time the second-day strategies didn't play out.

    It's like having a spectacular failure of a play call -- if it happens occasionally, that's life. If it happens regularly, you have a problem.
     
  6. kennyb

    kennyb In the Starting Line-Up

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    The "media" is not the scouting services who are following these kids years ahead of time. They are well aware of all the kids, long before the combine. And he was nowhere on any service as in they knew who he was but had him as UDFA material. Even his own conference didn't award him all conference first team or second team. So sorry, you just don't know what you're talking about.
     
  7. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Pro Bowl Player

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    Wilson. I dont get what all the outrage is about. BB has drafted players we have never heard of before.

    Trading down, was that really bad value? The Pats turned a late 2nd rounder into a 3rd and a 5th. BB got Beqette in the 3rd, a guy who is a flexible DE/OLB tweener with 10 sacks in 10 games. He could be our next mike wright. That sounds like a pretty good pick to me.

    In addition BB parlayed that 5th rounder into a 6th, 7th, and 7th. So he got a 3 for 1 and also got Dennard in those picks. A risky but high ceiling player. The Pats end up with 7 picks overall, and 3 potential first round talents if you believe some of the evaluations of Dennard. So let's not lose sight of the big picture. Overall it was a great draft, just oozing with potential and restocking/rebuilding the Pats defense!
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2012
  8. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I remember your post draft rant last year and it was justified, just as this one is. The FO has a Jeckle and Hyde feel to it. One moment it can make a great selection and or trade the next it makes up for it by making a totally mind numbing bush league move, not unlike Oakland or Cinncy would make. I just don't get it, probably never will. Although i can live with Bequette/Dennard picks
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2012
  9. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    obviously you've spent too much of the past week at J.I., Ken...take a sabbatical, get the green germs eradicated from your bloodstream and recharge your batteries here amongst your fellow tribe...
     
  10. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    BB had appareantly decided there were only a few openings on his roster and wanted a FS desperately, only there few if any good ones in this Draft.

    Having researched this a little, it is becoming obvious that Tavon is a smart, coachable, team leader and captain willing to do what the Coach and Team needed even at the cost of his own reputation.

    He was recruited by a bundle of big time football powers and chose Illinois, which speaks well to his basic athletic ability, and his mental accuity. He was a team leader and captain, which affirms his leadership abilities.

    He readily volunteered to play CB when he isn't a good one, because the Coach and Team needed someone to do it. Scouts saw he wasn't a very good
    CB, and downgraded him. But he appears to be a pretty good FS, when he can play that position. He can also diagnose and set the secondary. Think of him as a better, bigger, faster, James Sanders. Not a superstar, but a fine glue for the secondary.

    Then there were no Bowl invites for a losing Illini team, so little for the Scouts and amateur Draftniks to see. The amateur Draftniks get lots of their info from the Combine and All-Star team invites. He got none, so they never added him to their reports and lists. He simply fell through the cracks, to all but the NFL scouts.

    It is being suggested that like Volmer, there were 6 or 7 other NFL teams interested in him, including the Chargers who took a S shortly thereafter.
    Tavon is not a slot corner, but Arrington is. Notice that in all the discussion of moving people to Safety, Arrington's slot CB was never even considered. They are completely different positions. Coincidently, Alonzo Dennard is a very good slot CB, and will give Arrington plenty of competition.

    I like this potential secondary, when healthy, and its texture even more. the Pats have very good outside CBs in McCourty and Ras-i. They have a pretty fair slot CB in Arrington. They have a good SS in Chung, and now a fair FS in Gregory. Now they have out side depth in Moore and Allen, slot competition in Dennard, SS safety depth in Barrett, and FS depth in Julian Edelman and Tavon Wilson.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2012
  11. livinginthe past

    livinginthe past 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Yes, these 'Idle thoughts' are turning into some type of forum based catharsis....

    You seem like a nice enough guy, but your mistake is to buy so heavily into what all those 'mock drafts' and 'draft guru's' have been selling for the past month or more.

    I love reading mock drafts and picturing certain players in a Patriots uni - but when Bill makes his picks fanstasy goes out the window and reality takes over...or at least it should.

    The reason alot of the 'usual suspects' were so happy with the 1st round was that they felt that they had finally been vindicated - that Belichick was finally learning to do things their way....the right way.

    He was picking players they liked, and even better.... that Kiper et al also liked!

    There have been enough articles relayed to the masses here that demonstrate that, compared to his peers, Bill Belichick is a very good drafter.

    Yet still people question him because they wanted Reyes or whoever Kiper/Mayock etc had in their 'top 100'.

    For your own sanity you do need to get over this fixation with buying into whatever the latest fad is the sports media are pimping.

    For someone to describe an initially mystifying 2nd round draft pick as 'agony' is a strong indication that you need to get some perspective.

    Go be a Bengals/Browns/Bills fan for a year and see how you like it.
     
  12. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Bedard has some not so idle thoughts this AM. I thought he might be a little pissy like Ken after going out on a limb and predicting the Pats would be purely drafting for 2013. In some ways they did. But Greg did what Ken never takes time to do, rationally reflect on what Bill may have been trying to achieve overall and what that has the potential to evolve into.

    Zo was saying much the same yesterday. This defense now has the potential to be a real pain in the ass to diagnose as it can be multiple and disguised simply by virtue of a lot of similar and therefore hard to pidgeonhole for ID purpose moving parts. Lots of guys who can do/be two or three different things lining up all over the place without substitutions to help OC's and QB's diagnose what's coming. And an influx of reportedly heady as well as driven, versatile players with some experience calling the shots - as opposed to in the absence of one or two key players the blind leading the blind...

    People need to (once and for all) wrap their heads around the FACT that it's not about talent collection in the NFL...it's about teambuilding with sufficient talent around a bonefide QB. Then generally speaking the more bonefide that guy is the farther you will go. Bill now has a much better selection of players with talent and/or experience from which to build the defense and ST components of the 2012 team than he did in 2010 or 2011. The offense was already fine and he augmented it sufficiently via FA. A veteran RB might still be a good idea, but there is time and opportunity to address that.




    That word, chameleon is what this defense was back in the early part of the last decade. Due to heady players aging out and an inability to replace them in kind, we lost the ability to be that. With the exception of Seymour and Law who may one day reside in Canton, our defense was never the most talented. It was the smartest and most determined and hardworking and while disciplined more instinctive and chock full of heady playmakers who will probably have to settle for the Hall at Patriots Place, along with the Lombardi's they helped win.

    That is what Bill is looking to recreate. A heady defense where no one or two stars are all you have to game plan against because the whole motley crew is a freakin' OC's nightmare of possibilities that you can't even diagnose even with a whole seasons worth of tape because the permutations are almost endless because of the scheme versatility of the whole lot of them...

    You are about to witness the re-emergence of the genius... Not that what he did for the last 3-4 seasons with chewing gum and string defense backing up a world class offense wasn't fairly impressive...





    As a whole, the parts seem to fit the Patriots - The Boston Globe
     
  13. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter Weekly Picks Winner

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    I like the term Chameleon.. have felt for a while now that BB is moprhing into a defense that defies description, and is flexible dependent on the needs of the situation as it is about situational football.. it will confuse the sports pundits, that is a good thing.

    The less weak links you have, the stronger the defense.. you can go heavy d line, light and fast d line, half and half.. you have DE's that have the capability to back into coverage there are so many possibilities.. you can spell Wilfork without crapping your pants.

    The same with the DB's you have a lot of pretty good bodies, and together with a year of maturity and playing together will only make them better. There are some new moving parts that may prove interesting..

    On paper our ST's have vastly improved... and if one of these guys is a good KR or PR... it could get scary good.
     
  14. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter Weekly Picks Winner

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    I learned years ago that you grade the draft two years after at the earliest. There's no outrage from me about anything. We don't truly know what we have except some nice talent.

    It's about being part IBBIT and part waiting to see what happens.

    I direct people to my sig if you want to see the folly of draft outrage right after the fact.
     
  15. State

    State In the Starting Line-Up

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    I like the free agent pickup Zusevics OT Iowa who suffered the indignity of tearing a pec muscle at the combine during the bench press. He was slated to be a fourth-rounder by McShay but ended up being undrafted.

    He's a player who I think could stick around here.

    And I wouldn't be surprised by mid season to have Dowling and Dennard the starting CBs. The duct tape boys.
     
  16. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Duct tape holds the real world together, that's a fact. Allowing a guy who can get a team with a 31st ranked defense to the superbowl to surrepticiously (because he didn't listen to the media draft gurus advice) replace his chewing gum and string collection with several rolls of it can get down right scary.
     
  17. Pat the Pats Fan

    Pat the Pats Fan Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    :D
    Exactly!:D:D
     
  18. grux

    grux Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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  19. The_Riddler

    The_Riddler 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Right, the pick of Wilson itself, I don't have a problem with. It's where he was taken and the lack of BB maybe trading this pick down to accumulate whether it be a future #2 as they've done in the past and a #3 or #4 where they could have taken Wilson. What made BB feel he had to take the kid at that premium spot ?? This pick itself is fine, but man, they could have gotten so much more and gotten the kid later on. That's the frustrating part.
     
  20. 37Harrison

    37Harrison 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    FWIW, I have been taking a look at the immediate draft grades the media hands out right after the draft and some rate the Pats draft as an A, even with "the agony" of the 2nd round.

    What I didn't like from the 2nd round was the pick of Wilson with their 1st pick. One would assume the Pats could've traded back a round or 2 and still got him. However, I am not sure if that was even possible after seeing what they received in return for their 2nd, 2nd round pick. Nor do we know if other teams were targeting Wilson as well. What I did like is the fact that the Pats went and got the guys they wanted.

    I also love the Bequette pick in the 3rd and think he could pay immediate dividends to this D. The more I see out of him, the more I like. BB has restocked this D with young, playmaking leaders. What's not to love about that?
     
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