Idle thoughts - The "Gronk" edition

[DarrylS]

Welcome back PFK, you were missed so much so there is a thread about missing you. Great analysis as usual..

We have been down this road before, and once again coaching is the difference as BB prepares Pats players for every eventuality.. in SB 49 Malcolm Butler told us fans about how BB practiced that play.. yesterday Rowe and Harmon were ready for the fake spike, they recognized it.

With that being said, the defensive issues are obvious, not because of coaching but because we have a bunch of guys; Roberts, Lee, Reilly etc all of whom should not be starting for this team at best they are role players.. the Steelers controlled the time of possession keeping Brady off of the field.

Brady still looks a little off to me, not sure if it is injuries or lack of confidence in the O Line.. some of this throws were not very good, but better than last week..

Kept looking for TJ Watt, did not see him making much of an impact.. expected the second coming.

The game prior with Rich Gannon is the worse monotone announcer of all time, tries to sound like the smartest guy in the room so much so he does not need to work at it..

Then after the Pats game watching Jimmy G for a few plays was nice.. more and more he seems like the real deal.

 

[Clonamery]

I believe that Ben wanted to spike the ball and go for the tie and OT but was over ruled by the OC who later said we play to win. I also believe the OC called the play.

You're the only one.....even Roethlisberger doesn't believe it.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

Roethlisberger played a good game - until the last play. I'm stunned he threw it. The Steelers only had one guy run a route and that was a slant right into the middle of the D? Can't throw that - ever. As Romo said, if you want to throw, go for a fade to minimize the risk getting picked. But Roethlisberger's throw was just asking to get picked.

Absent the very short field on the Brady INT, the Steelers would not have scored in the second half. The reality is they needed pin point execution in the first half.

Perfect execution can happen.....it's just impossible to maintain for 60 minutes.

Likewise, in a game with fewer possessions.............everything is magnified. It also makes one wonder about 8-9 minute drives with no scoring.

 

[archstanton543]

"The worst example on this came on Bell's TD run, where Roberts shot the gap, and came free into the backfield and failed to make the play,"

Yeah, what the heck was up with that play. He had Bell dead-to-rights and then just ran by him like he didn't even see him. Did his eyes stop working or something during that play? I'd love to see some analysis of it.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

I believe that Ben wanted to spike the ball and go for the tie and OT but was over ruled by the OC who later said we play to win. I also believe the OC called the play.

But th eOC didn't tell him to throw into triple coverage. Usually in those situations, it's an out route or one where only the receiver can catch it or it goes incomplete . Ben has to take some of the blame for getting too cute and getting burned by it....

 

[drewskie]

Agree with those saying we need to tackle better. We had Ben for a big non completion by Lee and he missed. Same by Rowe on the big gain at the end by Smith Schuster.

Also thought the TD celebration actually shows a lack of maturity on their part as they clearly would have done the same hit against Burfict if given the chance.

 

[jah]

Thinking about it some more maybe soft isn't the right word as you say. It's like mixing the "one touch and he goes down" aspect of White with a more laissez faire approach to playing the game. He seems fiery and passionate emotionally, but it doesn't translate into an aggressive "I'm going to impose my will on you" playing style.

He's good, but he's no Steve Smith.

 

[jah]

I actually view the high pressure rate by our DL yesterday as a negative. It's the same **** we've been watching for years that the Patriots win in spite of, not because of: the quarterback, often not even a guy known for his mobility, has anywhere from 2-4 Patriots draped over him.

Somehow escapes, throws third down conversion. **** that ****, I'm so beyond sick of watching that play (and its close cousin which results in the same slow quarterback running 15 yards).

 

[jah]

I don't think the "blueprint" of hoping 4 pass rushers is enough pressure and playing man coverage is at all new. This is how teams have been beating Brady for years and years. Frankly, it's embarrassing that only some teams know this, and that the ones who do know only seem to try this strategy some of the time.

 

[varjao]

I love this Gronk picture on the top of the page, it looks like one of those battle epic pictures, and that was it yesterday, a battle.

It reminds me Captain America, I'm pretty sure I have a CA comic book that he's running like that in the cover.

 

[AtomicDawg]

Since this is the Gronk edition...

BTW- perhaps Gronk's most impressive catch was the low ball Brady threw him that he somehow kept from hitting the ground. his ability to lift that ball up, while his entire momentum was going in the opposite direction was just freakishly athletic.

Absolutely agree. A guy 6'7" should NOT be able to do this. A freak.

 

[PatsFan2]

In a sense he's the offensive Melvin Butler, who is a very GOOD player, but one that doesn't quite play up to the level you want to play a guy as an elite CB. In the same way, Cooks is good, perhaps very good, but NOT Antonio Brown (who is an freak at his size), or a Julio Jones. I'd gladly extend him in the $8-10MM range, but let him walk after 2018 if he wants more.

I will take that to go ken...Gronk or Edelman makes the Pats Offense go round.

 

[NYCPatsFan]

Welcome back Ken.

Sorry to read that your CA trip wasn't on a good note.

Back to your excellent insights, which were sorely missed last week. Thanks for taking the time to write about yesterday's game. What a roller coaster emotions in the last two minutes. Unbelievable!

One request and one note on Butler:

Request - Can you break down what exactly happened for the Steeler's O to have that 70+ yard run in the last minute pls? I was stunned that the Pats D let such a loose running play (not a wild throw to a WR) in the last minute. Thanks.

-I am surprised that you didn't mention Butler's excellent tackling in the last 20 seconds to keep the Steelers' player inbound that made them unable to stop the clock. That IMO was quite crucial because it caused their O to hurry and Ben to decide without having the luxury of time to think it thru.

 

[tasmlab]

Welcome back, Ken! Great write up per usual. My favorite part of Monday. Thanks!

The post game thread is titled something like "crazy game". I thought it was a GREAT game with two really good teams playing great, competitive football.

 

[everlong]

I've been tagging onto your thread on and off for a long time. We always agree on so much but this week you hit on a more of my key points than ever.

1. It was pretty classy of the Steelers to start yelling for help right away. Not that teams don't do it but with RS's injury I think they are freaked out and hypersensitive about major injuries right now, and I don't blame them. It was great to see RS up and about.

2. I could not agree more about the Jags and Rams. The NFL is about matchups and given our pass blocking up the middle those are two teams I don't want to see. Those two teams are so physical on both sides of the ball. The Jags don't have the offense the Rams do.

3. When Cooks was coming out of college I said in the draft forum he would end up being a faster Deion Branch in this offense. I was wrong. Although faster he isn't as tough. Deion got down over the middle but he went in there. The SB against Philly he took over. I cannot see Cooks ever having that game. I hate to say it but he reminds me more of Brandon Llyod than any other Pat's receiver. Some of their sideline catches are eerily similar. I just don't think he's tough enough.

4. I've been more upbeat about Gilmore than most and I still think he's a quality CB but I also question his toughness both physically and mentally. He ole'd on run support a few times and once it was glaring. For all my criticism of Butler's play he would have stuck his nose in there. I wonder if teams will start to run to his side more often?

5. Gronk is the GOAT. People will argue Gonzalez, Gates or Whitten but check all of their playoff numbers and they are crap. None can block in Gronk's league. None of them can freight train an entire defense like he can. It makes me respect Earl Thomas that much more as the only guy who with a clean hit trucked Gronk.

6. The Steelers TD reversal was correct by the rule. There is no controversy. Hate the rule if you're a Steelers fan but their calling it marginal at best is a losers lament. The picking up of the flag on the blocking down field was BS. Decastro blew Harris out of the play 5 yards down field before the pass hit the receivers hands. Yet all the media will talk about today is the overrule.

7. Harmon is a true Patriot. He is the embodiment of what it means when they say the Patriot way. Building a solid middle class of players who love football, are smart and are leaders. Nobody is going to confuse his skill set with Ed Reed but I'll take him every day over more physically gifted guys who don't get it. Nice play by Rowe but what I love about Harmon is he took a knee when 99% of the league runs it out of the end zone. Throw in his half time SB speech and his blasting of the defense on the sidelines in Miami, and they played better after that, and how can you not love this guy? He's a Faulk, Brown, White....type who the numbers will never do justice for.

8. All I want for Christmas is Gronk intact after the Buffalo game. I hope one of them doesn't dive at his knees.

9. Yes the Steelers were down AB and RS. The Patriots were down Edelman their best receiver, Hightower their best and most versatile defender, Branch their best interior lineman, Hogan who killed the Steelers last year in the playoffs, Bennett the best second TE in the league, Mitchell a good 3rd outsider receiver, Ebner one of the best special teams players in the league. Take any one of them away and they might not have won the SB last year. At different times they were so clutch. You could easily make MVP cases for two of them in the SB.

10. I know if affects the Patriots draft position but I cannot help but root for JG. Great comeback.

 

[drewskie]

I've been tagging onto your thread on and off for a long time. We always agree on so much but this week you hit on a more of my key points than ever.

1. It was pretty classy of the Steelers to start yelling for help right away. Not that teams don't do it but with RS's injury I think they are freaked out and hypersensitive about major injuries right now, and I don't blame them. It was great to see RS up and about.

2. I could not agree more about the Jags and Rams. The NFL is about matchups and given our pass blocking up the middle those are two teams I don't want to see. Those two teams are so physical on both sides of the ball. The Jags don't have the offense the Rams do.

3. When Cooks was coming out of college I said in the draft forum he would end up being a faster Deion Branch in this offense. I was wrong. Although faster he isn't as tough. Deion got down over the middle but he went in there. The SB against Philly he took over. I cannot see Cooks ever having that game. I hate to say it but he reminds me more of Brandon Llyod than any other Pat's receiver. Some of their sideline catches are eerily similar. I just don't think he's tough enough.

4. I've been more upbeat about Gilmore than most and I still think he's a quality CB but I also question his toughness both physically and mentally. He ole'd on run support a few times and once it was glaring. For all my criticism of Butler's play he would have stuck his nose in there. I wonder if teams will start to run to his side more often?

5. Gronk is the GOAT. People will argue Gonzalez, Gates or Whitten but check all of their playoff numbers and they are crap. None can block in Gronk's league. None of them can freight train an entire defense like he can. It makes me respect Earl Thomas that much more as the only guy who with a clean hit trucked Gronk.

6. The Steelers TD reversal was correct by the rule. There is no controversy. Hate the rule if you're a Steelers fan but their calling it marginal at best is a losers lament. The picking up of the flag on the blocking down field was BS. Decastro blew Harris out of the play 5 yards down field before the pass hit the receivers hands. Yet all the media will talk about today is the overrule.

7. Harmon is a true Patriot. He is the embodiment of what it means when they say the Patriot way. Building a solid middle class of players who love football, are smart and are leaders. Nobody is going to confuse his skill set with Ed Reed but I'll take him every day over more physically gifted guys who don't get it. Nice play by Rowe but what I love about Harmon is he took a knee when 99% of the league runs it out of the end zone. Throw in his half time SB speech and his blasting of the defense on the sidelines in Miami, and they played better after that, and how can you not love this guy? He's a Faulk, Brown, White....type who the numbers will never do justice for.

8. All I want for Christmas is Gronk intact after the Buffalo game. I hope one of them doesn't dive at his knees.

9. Yes the Steelers were down AB and RS. The Patriots were down Edelman their best receiver, Hightower their best and most versatile defender, Branch their best interior lineman, Hogan who killed the Steelers last year in the playoffs, Bennett the best second TE in the league, Mitchell a good 3rd outsider receiver, Ebner one of the best special teams players in the league. Take any one of them away and they might not have won the SB last year. At different times they were so clutch. You could easily make MVP cases for two of them in the SB.

10. I know if affects the Patriots draft position but I cannot help but root for JG. Great comeback.

Besides the great Earl Thomas, only Eric Berry (another all world FS) has successfully covered Gronk without committing penalties. Guess these two (along with The Tyronn Mathieu from a couple years ago) are the best free safeties in the world for a reason.

Harmon taking a knee after the game winning INT was something most players wouldn't have been smart enough to do.

 

[patfanken]

Welcome back Ken.

Sorry to read that your CA trip wasn't on a good note.

Back to your excellent insights, which were sorely missed last week. Thanks for taking the time to write about yesterday's game. What a roller coaster emotions in the last two minutes. Unbelievable!

One request and one note on Butler:

Request - Can you break down what exactly happened for the Steeler's O to have that 70+ yard run in the last minute pls? I was stunned that the Pats D let such a loose running play (not a wild throw to a WR) in the last minute. Thanks.

-I am surprised that you didn't mention Butler's excellent tackling in the last 20 seconds to keep the Steelers' player inbound that made them unable to stop the clock. That IMO was quite crucial because it caused their O to hurry and Ben to decide without having the luxury of time to think it thru.

Actually, MYC, I was just getting ready to post something on this topic after checking some of the highlights this morning. In my opinion there were 2 main culprits on this play, NEITHER is Eric Rowe.

#1 is Matt Patricia. It was kind of ironic that I blasted the Titan DC his calls on JG's game winning drive with a minute left in the game, and then lauding the way the Pats usually play the same situation. USUALLY is the key word here.

One THIS play, however, Matt had the team in man to man instead of the usual 5 man under shell that would have contained a short completion like the one to a 5-10 yd gain and force a TO. If you look at the play design, Rowe had little chance to stop the reception of a good pass, and iit was a perfect pass hitting Shuster in stride (unfortunately) and when Shuster pulled away from Rowe, and with everyone's back turned to the play, there was no one there to attack him until he got to about 45 of the Pats.

Then came culprit #2 - Jordan Richards, who had a clear shot had Shuster in what SHOULD have been an easy side line tackle, and for some reason just flat out missed. Really no excuse for that play.

Of course there were other less impactful culprits who could have done better jobs, as in most plays, but those 2 were (IMHO) the 2 biggest on that play

 

[upstater1]

Cooks is a downfield threat more than a possession guy. Lloyd nor anyone else had as many big plays downfield with the Patriots since Randy Moss.

I'm hearing that very mediocre WRs around the league are going to make $10m next year, guys like Jordan Matthews. It's going to take more to retain Cooks.

And, if you get rid of him? With him being so young? He's 24?

That's just a sign of bad roster management (you gave up a first rounder).

 

[patfanken]

The other thing I forgot to mention in the OP, was something so important that I almost titled the post with it. It was the DAMNED 3rd down conversion rate for the most of the first 3 quarters.

Now most offensive teams these days are pretty good at making 3rd and under 5 situations, but usually not to THIS degree. At one point the Steelers had made 10 of 12 third down situations. THIS was just horrible execution. BTW compare that to the 3 for 9 conversion rate the Pats managed to accumulate.

Now it ended up a more reasonable, yet still unacceptable 10-14 at the end of the night. Nothing you want to brag about at the end of the day. Granted we were short handed up front, and Ben was VERY good that game (up until the last play, and btw that ball was also right on target too, except Rowe was there to get a hand in. Hopefully this is a key area we NEED to get fixed.

Also I should have added this comment to the original. In the end as bad as the defense seemed last night there is one thing that can easily be overlooked. For the final 30 minutes of the game the Steelers managed only 7 points on that defense, and that was a drive that started on our 23 ydline courtesy of Brady's pick. When you think on it, that's not shabby,, especially on the road.

It also shows up just how important special teams was last night. The Steelers only punted twice all night. They only had ONE 3 and out. So they were moving the ball. The results might have been different if they hadn't had to drive the ball so far each time. Just sayin'

 

[patfanken]

Since this is the Gronk edition...







Absolutely agree. A guy 6'7" should NOT be able to do this. A freak.

View attachment 18869

Yeah, Dog, it is just incredibly impressive to have a 17 yard per catch number, ESPECIALLY as a TE, and one who actually blocks for a living as well.

I remember the thing that always impressed me the most about Stanley Morgan was the fact the guy averaged 20 ypc..... not just for one year or a couple of selected years, but for his CAREER!!!!! It still impresses the hell out of me.