I can't believe how badly the defense was hurt by the lack of confidence BB showed

[makewayhomer]

Re: I can't believe how badly the defense was hurt by the lack of confidence BB showe

So are you saying that you don't think that the defense came out NOTICEABLY more angry than they have this entire season? They were absolutely fired up.

1st half against the Jets in week 2: 3 points allowed by the Pats defense. Jets gained 57 yards in the first half.

1st half against the Jets yesterday: 0 points allowed and 34 total yards. so don't go acting like yesterday the Pats defense came out and were WAY better than they had ever been before. they completed dominated both 1st halves.

and for good measure:

1st half vs Titans: 0 points allowed, 3 turnovers forced, 84 yards allowed.

 

[makewayhomer]

Re: I can't believe how badly the defense was hurt by the lack of confidence BB showe

Please spare us the pop Epistemology. And don't bring something like the Narrative Fallacy into play unless you know what you're talking about. The Narrative Fallacy is a lot more nuanced than your quote (source, BTW?) allows and is more typically used by folks like Taleb to explain how people deal with Black Swan Events. I doubt that the behavior of the Pats D this week qualifies as a Black Swan Event.

To my simple mind, BB called out his D, the D responded and stuffed the Jets.

the point is that all the talk about BB calling out his defense, his having no faith in his defense, etc, is just dumb.

#1: the argument can be made that by leaving them only 29 yards vs the Colts, he voted them MORE confidence than had he punted. some players said as much as last week.

#2: the narrative fallacy absolutely applies here, as it did last week. we make that 1st down and BB is a genius, we don't he is an idiot...forget randomness it's only the result that matters, right? this week if we come out looking good it means BB was a genius for calling the defense out, but if we come out looking bad BB is an idiot for calling the defense out. both of these hard and fast conclusions are wrong but you know people would be saying each of these things. it's making up stories after the fact to fit the results, instead of trying to figure out what really matters or what the evidence says

and here is the source

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: I can't believe how badly the defense was hurt by the lack of confidence BB showe

1st half against the Jets in week 2: 3 points allowed by the Pats defense. Jets gained 57 yards in the first half.

1st half against the Jets yesterday: 0 points allowed and 34 total yards. so don't go acting like yesterday the Pats defense came out and were WAY better than they had ever been before. they completed dominated both 1st halves.

and for good measure:

1st half vs Titans: 0 points allowed, 3 turnovers forced, 84 yards allowed.

In the first half of the first game, the Jets were handicapped on offense and ran the ball roughly 90% of the time. They did not allow Sanchez to air it out the way he did yesterday. Logic will tell you that it's easier to stop a team when they are one-dimensional. I thought you had that, being the "high level intellectual" that you are. Please remind us of what happened in Week 2 when the Jets ceased to be a one-dimensional team? And did you actually use the Tennessee game to make your point?! LMFAO! Pointing out a game in which the opponent clearly quit before the opening whistle! Excellent job at debating!

If you could not see that the defense came out with a different fire in the first half than they did in the game before, or even in the second half, then I don't know what to tell you. Like I said before, maybe you should consider Lasik surgery.

 

[shmessy]

Re: I can't believe how badly the defense was hurt by the lack of confidence BB showe

You can continue to focus on the essentially meaningless games against the colts and saints. I will continue to focus on the division games. To me this game and the two Miami games are much more important than the regular season games with the colts and the saints. Now the post season games with the colts and saints are another matter entirely.

Of course, it is always better to win so the games aren't really totally "meaningless".

When a BB Patriots team actually gets to a SB WITHOUT having a first round playoff bye, then you can call a regular season game "essentially meaningless".

BB era: 4 byes= 4 SB appearances. 0 for 5 in seasons without gaining the first round bye.

Winning the division isn't enough. The bye is a necessity (especially in the case of Messrs. Taylor and Morriss).

Until then, every game has meaning until a bye has been clinched (i.e. the San Franciso game at Gillette in January 2005 was "essentially meaningless").

 

[makewayhomer]

Re: I can't believe how badly the defense was hurt by the lack of confidence BB showe

In the first half of the first game, the Jets were handicapped on offense and ran the ball roughly 90% of the time. They did not allow Sanchez to air it out the way he did yesterday. Logic will tell you that it's easier to stop a team when they are one-dimensional. I thought you had that, being the "high level intellectual" that you are. Please remind us of what happened in Week 2 when the Jets ceased to be a one-dimensional team? And did you actually use the Tennessee game to make your point?! LMFAO! Pointing out a game in which the opponent clearly quit before the opening whistle! Excellent job at debating!

I have no idea what you are talking about. you can talk about handicapping or whatever, but in both cases the Jets did what they thought gave them the best chance to move the ball. if you think you know more about the Jets offense than Rex Ryan, ok.

if the Pats came out "with a different fire in the 1st half" yesterday, it should show up somewhere besides your eyes. in 2 other 1st halves this year the defensive stats looked about as good as they did yesterday including the earlier game against the same team; ergo, I have no reason to believe that there was some special fire this week

If you could not see that the defense came out with a different fire in the first half than they did in the game before, or even in the second half, then I don't know what to tell you. Like I said before, maybe you should consider Lasik surgery.

you can either continue spouting cliches without supporting evidence, or you could, you know, look at facts

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: I can't believe how badly the defense was hurt by the lack of confidence BB showe

I have no idea what you are talking about. you can talk about handicapping or whatever, but in both cases the Jets did what they thought gave them the best chance to move the ball. if you think you know more about the Jets offense than Rex Ryan, ok.

if the Pats came out "with a different fire in the 1st half" yesterday, it should show up somewhere besides your eyes. in 2 other 1st halves this year the defensive stats looked about as good as they did yesterday including the earlier game against the same team; ergo, I have no reason to believe that there was some special fire this week




you can either continue spouting cliches without supporting evidence, or you could, you know, look at facts

You're an idiot, pure and simple. I gave you plenty of evidence. How's this? In the first half yesterday, the Patriots (playing with a very visible fire in their bellies on defense) allowed the Jets as many yards at one point as we had points. How about that? I have no idea why you keep mentioning the Week 2 game and the Titans game. That argument's been all but blown up. The Jets were very one-dimensional in the first half. If you know anything at all about football, you'll know how easy it is to stop a one-dimensional opponent, save for the 2007 Pats. I challenged you before and you conveniently ignored it, so I will say it again: remind us all of what happened in that second half when they stopped being one-dimensional.

As for the Titans game, again... . That team gave up the moment they got off the bus and it turned into the biggest blowout in team history (that's 40 years worth of history). Very terrible example to use. So, if this isn't enough evidence for you, then I don't know what to tell you. Sounds to me like you're arguing just for the sake of arguing, or reading your own posts. Whichever one works for you, chief. I mean, you've already been harpooned by pretty much everyone that's visited this thread, but why stop?

 

[makewayhomer]

Re: I can't believe how badly the defense was hurt by the lack of confidence BB showe

in the Titans game, the Titans quit b/c they were so far out of it, partly b/c...our defense played so well.

so we shouldn't use the defensive effort by the Pats that day b/c they were so good that day.

got it!

 

[makewayhomer]

Re: I can't believe how badly the defense was hurt by the lack of confidence BB showe

fire in the belly!

fire in the hole!

fire in the eyes!

fire fire fire!

you have figured out football man, just keep saying the word fire after we play well

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Re: I can't believe how badly the defense was hurt by the lack of confidence BB showe

the point is that all the talk about BB calling out his defense, his having no faith in his defense, etc, is just dumb.

#1: the argument can be made that by leaving them only 29 yards vs the Colts, he voted them MORE confidence than had he punted. some players said as much as last week.

#2: the narrative fallacy absolutely applies here, as it did last week. we make that 1st down and BB is a genius, we don't he is an idiot...forget randomness it's only the result that matters, right? this week if we come out looking good it means BB was a genius for calling the defense out, but if we come out looking bad BB is an idiot for calling the defense out. both of these hard and fast conclusions are wrong but you know people would be saying each of these things. it's making up stories after the fact to fit the results, instead of trying to figure out what really matters or what the evidence says

and here is the source

Too many unknowns and too much sloppy thinking floating around here.

The only evidence we have is in my sig line; BB said he thought his Offense could get two yards. The rest is interpretation.

So, as is the case in any knowledge event, we either leave reality uninterpreted and take it "like it is" (like a good Empiricist) or we continually structure reality around our perceptions (like a good Rationalist). Or we go with Kant and figure out how to describe it in both ways, which makes a lot of sense but also brings with it another whole can of epistemological worms that Wittgenstein and others tried to sort out centuries later.

The narrative fallacy is something else entirely. It is used as a way of understanding human explanatory behavior when confronted with completely unexpected events, like 911 or the JFK Assassination. Surely, an NFL HC's decision to go for it late in a game when he has confidence in his Offense doesn't rise to that standard. This is a run of the mill knowledge event, nothing more, nothing less.

I went to your source, which provides a pretty watered down version for the layman of Taleb's thinking. From one perspective, the history of Philosophy is the history of trying to make sense of and then reduce the incidence of what is perceived as "random." To make a long story short, Taleb is arguing that there are events that defy traditional explanatory frameworks and that people would benefit greatly from directly addressing this randomness rather than trying to erect erroneous or otherwise inadequate frameworks to deal with them. It is a very good point, but has nothing to do with the completely explainable decision by an NFL HC to go for it on fourth and short when he thinks it gives his team the best chance to win the game.

If, in the final analysis, all you're saying is that people tend to structure their interpretation of reality to fit their perceptions thereof, I'd reply that, in and of itself, that's not an interesting statement as it is tautologous.

 

[makewayhomer]

Re: I can't believe how badly the defense was hurt by the lack of confidence BB showe

Too many unknowns and too much sloppy thinking floating around here.

this I agree with, and was really the main impetus behind me creating this thread.

when I had to read all week about BB "showing no confidence in the defense" and how he "dissed the defense" and how the team has "lost it's swagger", it drove me crazy. people have absolutely no basis to say these things, but again, they make up stories to fit whatever they want to think. those were all useless statements.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: I can't believe how badly the defense was hurt by the lack of confidence BB showe

in the Titans game, the Titans quit b/c they were so far out of it, partly b/c...our defense played so well.

so we shouldn't use the defensive effort by the Pats that day b/c they were so good that day.

got it!

The defense did play well, but not as well as it did yesterday because they didn't need to. The Titans CLEARLY quit right after they got off the bus. They CLEARLY did not want to play in that weather. Do you really think that, if those two teams met tomorrow, the Pats would win 59-0 again? Come on, you're just being obtuse now. You're too big of a thinker to be stupid!

fire in the belly!

fire in the hole!

fire in the eyes!

fire fire fire!

you have figured out football man, just keep saying the word fire after we play well

I would venture to say that I've forgotten more about football than you'll ever know. First of all, nevermind the fact that they were obviously pumped up. Nevermind the fact that they held the opposing team to almost as many yards as we scored in the first half. If that doesn't do it for you, they also held one of the league's top rushing teams to 60 yards under their average and were more aggressive and hard hitting in this game than any game I had seen all season. There was a DISCERNABLE difference of how pumped up they were for this one than there was for any other game. The fact that you have now resorted to grade school antics shows me that you're all but defeated and are now simply arguing for the sake of reading your own posts.

Put the mocha latte' down and leave Starbucks once in a while. You can't really learn anything about the game sitting in there with the rest of "high society".

 

[makewayhomer]

Re: I can't believe how badly the defense was hurt by the lack of confidence BB showe

Do you really think that, if those two teams met tomorrow, the Pats would win 59-0 again?

obviously not

but if we played the Bucs again I don't think we would win again by 28 either