Holt: Patriots need another receiver

[RobertWeathers]

Let's review the third round of the 2009 NFL Draft:

National Football League: NFL Draft History

#83 Brandon Tate, North Carolina - New England Patriots
#84 Mike Wallace, Mississippi - Pittsburgh Steelers

Oh the irony, especially considering which team is playing in the Super Bowl this Sunday.

I don't understand. Up to this point, we know Wallace has had a better NFL career.

In his first year Wallace had 39 catches. Last year he had 60.

Tate had a blown ACL and was on the PUP, came back and got hurt.

Last year he had 24 catches for a 18 ypc average. Not great, but for essentially his first year not terrible.

Are you saying Tate has already hit his ceiling?

 

[jarnhestur]

Tate has had 2 years in the system. While I'm not discounting him , he's not a legitimate #1 or #2 receiver. Perhaps he can improve, but perhaps not. It's naive to think he's a lock for our future WR's.

Other then Welker, we have a lot of "could be" and "has potential." We need another WR or someone HAS to develop into a true starter.

Remember, Brady makes WR's look better then they are. Give Brady a good WR and he'll make him look great. Give Brady a great WR and he'll set records.

 

[Shelterdog]

Tate has had 2 years in the system. While I'm not discounting him , he's not a legitimate #1 or #2 receiver. Perhaps he can improve, but perhaps not. It's naive to think he's a lock for our future WR's.

Other then Welker, we have a lot of "could be" and "has potential." We need another WR or someone HAS to develop into a true starter.

We need another WR or what? They were good enough to be the team that went 14-2, have one of the top scoring teams of NFL history, and beat every team playing in the conference championships.

The WRs could be better, no doubt about it, but they're pretty good.

The question is whether improving the receiver position is the best way to improve the team for both 2011 and the future. I doubt it is-staying good at LG and LT and improving on Connolly, Ninkovich, TBC, the DE opposite T. Warren, and the BJGE alternative are alll going to be a lot more fruitful than adding a wideout.

 

[LasVegasPatsFan]

I guess our WR were good enough for the Pats to win 14 games this year, beating every playoff team (blowing out the Squeelers, Bears and Jets). Brady and the offense played one bad game and now the sky is falling on our WR core. I wouldn't care if this team played next season with the exact same WR. I remember when we let Moss go, everyone said "We are better off without him". THE PATS PUT UP 518 PTS this year, far more than anyone else with a better WR core. Stop this non sense

 

[DW Toys]

I guess our WR were good enough for the Pats to win 14 games this year, beating every playoff team (blowing out the Squeelers, Bears and Jets). Brady and the offense played one bad game and now the sky is falling on our WR core. I wouldn't care if this team played next season with the exact same WR. I remember when we let Moss go, everyone said "We are better off without him". THE PATS PUT UP 518 PTS this year, far more than anyone else with a better WR core. Stop this non sense

The one game that counted Cousin and the smurfs were exposed. Methinks the rest of the league uses the Jets defense to contain the smurfs in 2011.

One high leaping, taller, fast WR is in the cards (how about that word play?). I don't care if he catches no passes in the game with Revis or they go to the concession stand together. Revis is eliminated and they play with ten.
DW Toys

 

[Marqui]

One high leaping, taller, fast WR is in the cards (how about that word play?). I don't care if he catches no passes in the game with Revis or they go to the concession stand together. Revis is eliminated and they play with ten.
DW Toys

What are you basing this on?

 

[ctpatsfan77]

The one game that counted Cousin and the smurfs were exposed. Methinks the rest of the league uses the Jets defense to contain the smurfs in 2011.

One high leaping, taller, fast WR is in the cards (how about that word play?). I don't care if he catches no passes in the game with Revis or they go to the concession stand together. Revis is eliminated and they play with ten.
DW Toys

The JEST defense doesn't even work if the Pats don't shoot themselves in the foot multiple times in the first half.

 

[FCB02062]

Also the patriots wide receivers, tight ends, quarterback, etc only averaged 15.5 ppg in two losses against their main division rival..

 

[RobertWeathers]

Also the patriots wide receivers, tight ends, quarterback, etc only averaged 15.5 ppg in two losses against their main division rival..

They average 38 in their two wins. What is your point?

 

[FCB02062]

They average 38 in their two wins. What is your point?

they played the nyj three times last year. the scored 14 points in week two and 21 in the playoffs. They lost both games. They scored 45 in week 13. Going back to 2009, they only managed 9 points in week two and scored 31 in week 11. to answer your question, the Patriots offensive unit has been pretty poor against the nyj defense more often than not under foot fetish gang b#ng my wife head coach.
The Patriots are now 2-3 against that team. Also, in their three wins under tubby, the NYJ have only committed one turnover. I know it's only a sample of five games, but you can draw some conclusions...the Patriots cannot score alot of points against that team UNLESS the NYJ turn it over a bunch (8turnovers in their two losses) and they have a very hard time moving the ball 70 or 80 yards on the nyj defense...
I just hope something changes with the Pats offense (scheme or personnel) insofar as their ability to beat the NYJ. In two games last year they looked completely befuddled...

 

[jarnhestur]

We need another WR or what? They were good enough to be the team that went 14-2, have one of the top scoring teams of NFL history, and beat every team playing in the conference championships.

Or? Or there's a very good likelihood that we get to the playoffs and lose immediately. Again.

Don't tell me what we did in the regular season. Tell me what we did in the playoffs. Again.

The WRs could be better, no doubt about it, but they're pretty good.

The question is whether improving the receiver position is the best way to improve the team for both 2011 and the future. I doubt it is-staying good at LG and LT and improving on Connolly, Ninkovich, TBC, the DE opposite T. Warren, and the BJGE alternative are alll going to be a lot more fruitful than adding a wideout.

Is it the most important? No. But that wasn't the question, though. We do need a WR, whether we want to admit it or not. Sure, we need a pass rusher more and if our offensive line breaks up, we need to shore that up as well. However, a real WR would do wonders for avoiding another playoffs loss.

Again.

 

[RobertWeathers]

under foot fetish gang b#ng my wife head coach.
The Patriots are now 2-3 against that team. Also, in their three wins under tubby, the NYJ have only committed one turnover. I know it's only a sample of five games, but you can draw some conclusions...the Patriots cannot score alot of points against that team UNLESS the NYJ turn it over a bunch (8turnovers in their two losses) and they have a very hard time moving the ball 70 or 80 yards on the nyj defense...
I just hope something changes with the Pats offense (scheme or personnel) insofar as their ability to beat the NYJ. In two games last year they looked completely befuddled...

IMO you need to look this NE vs NYJ match-up differently.

The Jets have a good defense. Good defenses slow down good offenses sometimes. 1st game was w/o Welker. 2nd game the offense scored 24 points and had 27 first downs. 3rd game the offense had 14 first 1/2 points and the defense fell apart in the 2nd 1/2 by allowing 19 points and losing ToP by 2:1 margin b/c they couldn't stop the run or the pass. 4th game was 45-3 and the playoff game was the Jets had an excellent gameplan and the defense couldn't stop the Jets in key moments. Overall, the teams are pretty darn even.

My point is that it's a different game when facing a division opponents. Each team knows the other so well it's raw talent that takes over sometimes. Look at all the Pats/NYJ games from 2000-2010. All but a handful were grinders and the Pats won a majority of them because they had more talent on defense. That is no longer the case which is why from 2008 the NYJ are 4-3 vs the Pats and from 2003 to 2007 the Pats were 10-1. If you look at those games, there were plenty of 16-3, 13-7, 20-10, 17-16 type games. There were some blowouts for sure, but by a wide majority a couple of plays here and there decided them.

More talent on defense = more wins vs the NYJ.

 

[FCB02062]

IMO you need to look this NE vs NYJ match-up differently.

The Jets have a good defense. Good defenses slow down good offenses sometimes. 1st game was w/o Welker. 2nd game the offense scored 24 points and had 27 first downs. 3rd game the offense had 14 first 1/2 points and the defense fell apart in the 2nd 1/2 by allowing 19 points and losing ToP by 2:1 margin b/c they couldn't stop the run or the pass. 4th game was 45-3 and the playoff game was the Jets had an excellent gameplan and the defense couldn't stop the Jets in key moments. Overall, the teams are pretty darn even.

My point is that it's a different game when facing a division opponents. Each team knows the other so well it's raw talent that takes over sometimes. Look at all the Pats/NYJ games from 2000-2010. All but a handful were grinders and the Pats won a majority of them because they had more talent on defense. That is no longer the case which is why from 2008 the NYJ are 4-3 vs the Pats and from 2003 to 2007 the Pats were 10-1. If you look at those games, there were plenty of 16-3, 13-7, 20-10, 17-16 type games. There were some blowouts for sure, but by a wide majority a couple of plays here and there decided them.

More talent on defense = more wins vs the NYJ.

Yes, but you are forgetting two words that figured into the Patriots dominance during the time you mention - Herm Edwards (in 03, 04, and 05)....

 

[RobertWeathers]

Yes, but you are forgetting two words that figured into the Patriots dominance during the time you mention - Herm Edwards (in 03, 04, and 05)....

Not sure I follow. My assumption is that you are saying that talent-wise, the Pats and Jets were even and BB as the coach was the delta? Maybe so but by that argument means that Ryan is a better coach than BB. I don't buy that either.

Look at the Jets' drafts from 2001-2005- Horrible. With the exception of the Gholston pick, Mangini did a good job with talent evaluation and the draft.

Tannenbaum is a horrible drafter.

 

[DW Toys]

The JEST defense doesn't even work if the Pats don't shoot themselves in the foot multiple times in the first half.

That is a fair assessment as well.....but, however I ask you as the defendant, would you have liked to have one Randy Gene Moss for the second half of that game?

If your answer is...."well I guess so" you would then be of the camp that perhaps...and just perhaps...the Pats could use a bigger body perhaps stronger presence to annoy Revis in a playoff game and get his attention. He is a good CB. He can be beat though. Branch did not do the job. We have seen Moss have some decent days against Revis.

It was the scheme (even Kraft said so) to take away the middle of the field by beat up our little guys and knocking them off their routes in the second half that hurt TB. He got sacked only really one time by a CB and the others were more coverage.

Look at it this way, Hines Ward, Calvin Johnson, Fitzgerald, Johnson, Boldin are all tough to knock off routes. Moss had his moments as well. We had a guy here Givens who wasn't the tallest, but he was physical. He became that type of WR. Welker is physical as he can be but he can be pushed around when some CBs have 25-30lbs on him like Cromartie. Let's face it, Branch is not a physical WR, nor is Tate or Edleman (Price?). It's not inches and lbs, it's toughness. That boat sailed on a difference maker when the Pats F.O. absolutely (not twisting or sugar coating needed please) had "intimate relations with the pooch" on that deal. A major wiff of Chad Jackson proportions.

They have blundered into a few lately. Boldin was major "What the...."? Why is it they have not figured out it would have cost them less money to sign Wilfork, Samuel, Seymour or now Logan Mankins, if they signed them to extensions. They were all Pro Bowlers. It was not a gamble. Look at the Seymour gaff. O.K. a 17th pick is not end of world criteria, but I say his value this year would have made a difference in just that one game.

One poster so eloquently put up the notion that it has taken Drafting 4 other CBs and signing countless FAs to fill his shoes and Samuel still plays at a high level. How much money has it cost Mr. Kraft extra rather that perhaps the million and a half that the resign of Samuel would have cost him?

DW Toys