Have opinions of Phillip Dorsett changed?

[upstater1]

He should have caught it, but that was not an "easy" catch by any means. Back shoulder bullets you have to leave your feet for are probably the hardest "ordinary" catches a wideout has to make.

Not to mention, I only noticed it with the clip you posted with this camera angle, do you see what the DB did to break up that pass? Dorsett only lost contact with the ball after the DB made contact. If the DB hadn't grabbed Dorsett's left arm, he would have had that catch. That was a pass broken up by the Dolphins secondary, not a "drop" as such.

I'm struggling to understand what you are seeing. That is a perfect throw.

It is not back shoulder. In fact, Dorsett isn't even running his hardest, so any attempt to jump at the last moment is his fault for not being able to track the ball in the first place.

I've said this awhile, but until we grabbed Brandin Cooks, we hadn't had a receiver with ball skills in New England since Randy Moss. Sure, we had great route runners, speedy guys, even sure handed guys, and guys with guts to go over the middle, but we didn't have a guy who could track a ball down and adjust, like Cooks could do.

Here you see a prime example of a guy who is not able to track the ball properly.

It was a perfect throw.

Back shoulder throw? How could a 50 yard throw be back shoulder?

 

[Hyped]

My opinion has remained the same....a good receiver, but let's not make a bust for Canton just yet....

The dude has speed and can make plays. I think he just has trouble when tightly covered due to his small frame....I can't believe he is actually 5'10"...looks like 5'6" to me...

 

[Deus Irae]

Nah. He had a good game and made some clutch catches but he’s still best used as a WR4 which is the role he’ll slide into this coming week with Edelman returning and Gordon seeing more time.

He's been succeeding more as a WR2 than Hogan has as a WR1. I'm not sure how that's supposed to mean he's a WR4. It seems pretty clear that, at least when paired with Brady, he's reached the point of being a starter level (Wr1-3) receiver. I don't pretend to know for certain how the WR lineup will shake out with Gordon and Edelman back and healthy, but I don't expect Dorsett to be relegated to a pure WR4 who's rarely seeing the field.

Now, whether that's another instance of the Brady-Caldwell effect, or a completely legitimate improvement, I leave to others to argue over.

 

[iapatsfan]

My read on that drop is that Brady overthrew him. Dorsett did well to even get his hands on that ball.

It was a perfect pass and should been caught, but the defender did make a decent play on Doresett's arms to make it tougher. Still should have been caught.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

I'm surprised nobody is hammering on Hogan- he's been an abysmal 8 for 15.

Sounds like you've been missing about 15 pages of the Josh Gordon thread. Although...

 

[Kontradiction]

He's been succeeding more as a WR2 than Hogan has as a WR1. I'm not sure how that's supposed to mean he's a WR4. It seems pretty clear that, at least when paired with Brady, he's reached the point of being a starter level (Wr1-3) receiver. I don't pretend to know for certain how the WR lineup will shake out with Gordon and Edelman back and healthy, but I don't expect Dorsett to be relegated to a pure WR4 who's rarely seeing the field.

Now, whether that's another instance of the Brady-Caldwell effect, or a completely legitimate improvement, I leave to others to argue over.

I think/predict it's going to go back to Edelman, Gordon, Hogan, Dorsett. I wouldn't rule out Dorsett taking over for Hogan if Hogan's play continues to suck, though.

 

[Nunchucks]

Dorsett has been fine. He seems a bit more dialed in than Hogan right now. I would say my feelings on him are about the same. I though the would be good for 60+ balls and a 5+ Tds.

Once Jules come back, I would expect to see him, Jules, and Hogan on the field. Gordon will rotate in and might take Hogan's spot...Hogan has been unimpressive, overall.

 

[The Brandon Five]

you are right, dorsett did leave his feet, although i'm not sure he had to. it still hit him in both hands, though, and solidly (not a fingertip catch). he should have caught it:

It's also pretty clear that the DB made a good play and knocked the ball out.

 

[maineman209]

I'm struggling to understand what you are seeing. That is a perfect throw.

It is not back shoulder. In fact, Dorsett isn't even running his hardest, so any attempt to jump at the last moment is his fault for not being able to track the ball in the first place.

I've said this awhile, but until we grabbed Brandin Cooks, we hadn't had a receiver with ball skills in New England since Randy Moss. Sure, we had great route runners, speedy guys, even sure handed guys, and guys with guts to go over the middle, but we didn't have a guy who could track a ball down and adjust, like Cooks could do.

Here you see a prime example of a guy who is not able to track the ball properly.

It was a perfect throw.

Back shoulder throw? How could a 50 yard throw be back shoulder?

Have you watched the tape?

Dorsett is bracketed by two defenders and running while looking over his right shoulder. He slows down for a step or two in order to get around the DB to his right, tracking the ball the entire way.

Then he speeds up again and jumps a little at the last second, so he may not have been entirely confident about his own relative position, but that's not what caused him to bobble it.

It was a "perfect throw" in the sense that it was the right distance and placed where only Dosett could reasonably get to it - which was a yard or so to the right of the DB who was pacing Dorsett on his right flank.

Dorsett still had to make an adjustment to get to where the ball was actually going, and he did a very good job on that part.

 

[maineman209]

I think/predict it's going to go back to Edelman, Gordon, Hogan, Dorsett. I wouldn't rule out Dorsett taking over for Hogan if Hogan's play continues to suck, though.

Seems to me that the order is at least somewhat likely to evolve over the course of the rest of the season. Based on what we've seen so far, it might be Edelman, Dorsett/Gordon, then Hogan for a couple games, unless Hogan starts getting wide open due to coverages accounting for Edelman.

Also, Edelman isn't likely to be 100% of Edelman-2016 at first, and maybe not even for the rest of this season.

It may take a few games for everything to get sorted out.

 

[Kdo5]

He should have caught it, but that was not an "easy" catch by any means. Back shoulder bullets you have to leave your feet for are probably the hardest "ordinary" catches a wideout has to make.

Not to mention, I only noticed it with the clip you posted with this camera angle, do you see what the DB did to break up that pass? Dorsett only lost contact with the ball after the DB made contact. If the DB hadn't grabbed Dorsett's left arm, he would have had that catch. That was a pass broken up by the Dolphins secondary, not a "drop" as such.

I'm not going to hammer PD for it. It happens, receivers drop balls even the great ones.

That said he is an NFL wide receiver, that's a catch he should absolutely make. Can we stop pretending otherwise?

 

[Angelpats]

I'm struggling to understand what you are seeing. That is a perfect throw.

It is not back shoulder. In fact, Dorsett isn't even running his hardest, so any attempt to jump at the last moment is his fault for not being able to track the ball in the first place.

I've said this awhile, but until we grabbed Brandin Cooks, we hadn't had a receiver with ball skills in New England since Randy Moss. Sure, we had great route runners, speedy guys, even sure handed guys, and guys with guts to go over the middle, but we didn't have a guy who could track a ball down and adjust, like Cooks could do.

Here you see a prime example of a guy who is not able to track the ball properly.

It was a perfect throw.

Back shoulder throw? How could a 50 yard throw be back shoulder?

That was a perfect throw. An nfl receiver has to catch that.

 

[RobertWeathers]

It's also pretty clear that the DB made a good play and knocked the ball out.

PD never tucked it away. He was juggling it when the DB got his hand in there.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

PD never tucked it away. He was juggling it when the DB got his hand in there.

Didn't he make an exceptional TD catch yesterday?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Didn't he make an exceptional TD catch yesterday?

Yes.

The discussion is the dropped bomb from Tom.

 

[maineman209]

I'm not going to hammer PD for it. It happens, receivers drop balls even the great ones.

That said he is an NFL wide receiver, that's a catch he should absolutely make. Can we stop pretending otherwise?

I'm good with that, as long as other folks stop pretending that it was a pure "drop".

 

[Simpelton]

PD never tucked it away. He was juggling it when the DB got his hand in there.

He didn't even have a full second to tuck it away. He would have had to have caught it perfectly to have a chance to protect it from the DB. And the fact that he had to leave his feet to go get the ball pretty much rendered that not an option.

In order to fit the ball into that miniscule window where it was catchable, Brady had to throw the ball so hard that that all by itself made it harder to catch. Dorsett had trouble with the ball because he was trying to make a soft-hands catch and the ball went halfway through his hands and by the time he tried to cradle it the DB was already wrenching his arm away. If Brady had thrown a rainbow, that's an easy catch, but he had to throw a bullet because Dorsett was in tight coverage, and I don't think Dorsett had enough margin of error to make it work.

That is one of the hardest throws and catches a QB-WR connection is asked to do on a regular basis, and the defender played it reasonably well. I'll say that Tom Brady's throw was 95% perfect but needed to be at least 98% perfect to give Dorsett a real chance to make that catch in that situation.

If I had to isolate one mistake Dorsett made on that play, it was not turning around and securing the ball against his chest with a leaping catch. He tried to grab and go and beat the defender for a touchdown -- which could have worked -- and I think he was looking beyond the catch to the touchdown just a bit -- just enough.

But that still wasn't a gimme catch by any means, and I really think people need to give a lot more credit to the defender for the play he made to break up the catch. The Miami DB played almost perfectly (in fact if Dorsett hadn't left his feet, that might have been ruled a forced fumble).

 

[maineman209]

That was a perfect throw. An nfl receiver has to catch that.

It was well-thrown, but it's not as if Brady put it on Dorsett's hands. Dorsett still had to adjust to the ball in the air and go after it.

 

[RobertWeathers]

He didn't even have a full second to tuck it away. He would have had to have caught it perfectly to have a chance to protect it from the DB. And the fact that he had to leave his feet to go get the ball pretty much rendered that not an option.

In order to fit the ball into that miniscule window where it was catchable, Brady had to throw the ball so hard that that all by itself made it harder to catch. Dorsett had trouble with the ball because he was trying to make a soft-hands catch and the ball went halfway through his hands and by the time he tried to cradle it the DB was already wrenching his arm away. If Brady had thrown a rainbow, that's an easy catch, but he had to throw a bullet because Dorsett was in tight coverage, and I don't think Dorsett had enough margin of error to make it work.

That is one of the hardest throws and catches a QB-WR connection is asked to do on a regular basis, and the defender played it reasonably well. I'll say that Tom Brady's throw was 95% perfect but needed to be at least 98% perfect to give Dorsett a real chance to make that catch in that situation.

If I had to isolate one mistake Dorsett made on that play, it was not turning around and securing the ball against his chest with a leaping catch. He tried to grab and go and beat the defender for a touchdown -- which could have worked -- and I think he was looking beyond the catch to the touchdown just a bit -- just enough.

But that still wasn't a gimme catch by any means, and I really think people need to give a lot more credit to the defender for the play he made to break up the catch. The Miami DB played almost perfectly (in fact if Dorsett hadn't left his feet, that might have been ruled a forced fumble).

Appreciate the thoughtful PoV and no one is saying it was a piece of cake but that is a catch an NFL WR needs to make.

 

[Angelpats]

It was well-thrown, but it's not as if Brady put it on Dorsett's hands. Dorsett still had to adjust to the ball in the air and go after it.

It is just semantics now. Football is a fast moving game, so for a moving target thats about as perfect a pass as you can make. Hits him in stride with both hands on the ball. If he secured it and didn’t juggle it then he would have caught it. It was really the best deep ball Brady has thrown all year. Still didn’t matter in the end since we won comfortably. It speaks volumes though that Dorsett seems to have gained Brady’s trust. They really should try Patterson and eventually Gordon on these deep balls, there is more room for error.