Groh not Wolf led the 2021 draft

[TheRainMaker]

Maybe Kraft intervened or maybe there was a palace revolt.

He clearly intervened as he told the media their approach to the draft was going to change after the disastrous 2020 season.

 

[50-yard-line]

Just a note: I saw a chart on where 1st round picks were taken as compared to the consensus draft position.

N'Keal Harry was taken TWO picks ahead of where projected - again, in the consensus. Only TWO.

Michel was 5 picks ahead.

 

[captain stone]

Andrew Callahan in the Herald today said this:



So if we are to believe Michael Holley, Andrew Callahan, and PatsPulpit, many of the disastrous recent picks by the Patriots happened when Belichick/McDaniels overruled the scouts. One of the changes last year may have have been putting more weight on the scouting evaluations and less on BB/McD. Maybe Kraft intervened or maybe there was a palace revolt. I did hear a rumor that a scout quit after the Harry pick. We will probably never know what really happened.

Matt Groh also received negative reviews at the Senior Bowl & scouting combine, for the same reason.

I hope Jonathan is paying attention...

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Matt Groh also received negative reviews at the Senior Bowl & scouting combine, for the same reason.

I hope Jonathan is paying attention...

Jonathan is hoping for a happy ending to this draft weekend, just like dad used to have!

Hopefully not in Jupiter Florida!

 

[Ring 6]

Andrew Callahan in the Herald today said this:



So if we are to believe Michael Holley, Andrew Callahan, and PatsPulpit, many of the disastrous recent picks by the Patriots happened when Belichick/McDaniels overruled the scouts. One of the changes last year may have have been putting more weight on the scouting evaluations and less on BB/McD. Maybe Kraft intervened or maybe there was a palace revolt. I did hear a rumor that a scout quit after the Harry pick. We will probably never know what really happened.

This is a crock of shlt.
How does the guy who the scouts report to and is responsible for decisions “defy the scouts”. This is a total lack of understanding of how it works.

 

[Ring 6]

Matt Groh also received negative reviews at the Senior Bowl & scouting combine, for the same reason.

I hope Jonathan is paying attention...

Who gave Groh “negative reviews”?

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Just a note: I saw a chart on where 1st round picks were taken as compared to the consensus draft position.

N'Keal Harry was taken TWO picks ahead of where projected - again, in the consensus. Only TWO.

Michel was 5 picks ahead.

Projected by whom? You have to remember that these mock drafts, the ones we see, are not created by professional scouts; they are done by amateur draftnics, typically in a proverbial basement and then cloned and cloned and cloned with a little tweak here and there. No professional scout would have had Harry as a first rounder...or he would not be a scout for long.

I suspect that someone upstairs at Patriots Place overruled the scouts on Harry.

As far as the success for the Patriots UDFA selections, I have to wonder if these guys are picked mostly because of their scouting evaluation with little input from further up the food chain.,,,maybe that is why they have been so successful.

 

[moosekill]

Yep, anyone here who would choose Mac over Trevor Lawrence is a ****ing Idiot.

Haven’t we learned anything from
Brady? It isn’t always the player with the best athletic ability, of course that is part of it, however to really succeed at this level it is their drive, determination and what is between their ears that makes some succeed and some fail. So far it seems Mac has that, looking in from the outside, last years results coupled with a few interviews with Lawrence, might lead some to question if he really does.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

This is a crock of shlt.
How does the guy who the scouts report to and is responsible for decisions “defy the scouts”. This is a total lack of understanding of how it works.

Your response would suggests that you have an inside line at Patriots HQ, but the vulgarity suggests otherwise...although I suspect that BB and others at HQ get really annoyed by the media and fan forums so maybe Ring 6 is an outlet for their venting. So my crackpot theory is that Ring 6 works for the Patriots organization in some capacity and is a loyal BB fan. Nothing wrong with that...we all love BB, it is just that his drafting is a, ah, a bit off.

I know that Felger was here (named Spanky-something or other) after we started picking on him. When I pointed out tha Spanky was probably Felger himself, he dropped off the map.

 

[borg]

This is a crock of shlt.
How does the guy who the scouts report to and is responsible for decisions “defy the scouts”. This is a total lack of understanding of how it works.

You're too hung up on the inflammatory word "defy".
Tabloids always opt for sensationalism and "defy" is far more provocative than "ignore" or ""dismiss"

Getting past semantics, the point remains clear: Bill's autocratic style negatively affected drafting.

 

[Sciz]

Projected by whom? You have to remember that these mock drafts, the ones we see, are not created by professional scouts; they are done by amateur draftnics, typically in a proverbial basement and then cloned and cloned and cloned with a little tweak here and there. No professional scout would have had Harry as a first rounder...or he would not be a scout for long.

I suspect that someone upstairs at Patriots Place overruled the scouts on Harry.

As far as the success for the Patriots UDFA selections, I have to wonder if these guys are picked mostly because of their scouting evaluation with little input from further up the food chain.,,,maybe that is why they have been so successful.

There was a report that Caserio was also on board with taking Harry, and he got a big promotion from the Texans a couple years later anyway. We also don't know that the scouts graded Harry poorly, just (reportedly) that he wasn't their favorite WR available.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

There was a report that Caserio was also on board with taking Harry, and he got a big promotion from the Texans a couple years later anyway. We also don't know that the scouts graded Harry poorly, just (reportedly) that he wasn't their favorite WR available.

I suspect that Deebo, at least, was graded higher. When you consider that the Patriots could have had Deebo AND AJ Brown/Hardman/Metcalf/Diontae Johnson and the fact that one of the biggest factors in losing Brady was the lack of WRs, and that the Patrist had to fritter (mostly) away a ton of FA money to try to correct the problem (leaving them with very little cap room for years to come) then you can make a good case for 2019 being the worst Patriots draft ever...of course there were a ton of appalling bad draft before Parcells and between Parcells and BB.

 

[Hawaiianpatsfan2]

Here's hoping Perkins and McGrone add to the value of that draft class

Don’t forget Wade, who I believe could be a surprise breakout player. It wouldn’t shock me if he played significant snaps at an above average level in 22. Full year in the system, and fully healthy for the first time in over two years.

He has all the tools, was a first year DB (which often struggle) and was still recovering from a collage injury and a weird COVID season/draft process overall. He lost two close family members leading up to the draft, and another after he was traded to the patriots (ruff). Needless to say I still have my hopes up for him to be a starter on the team. Hopefully somehow Mcduffie falls to us. That would put in place all the pieces for a fisty zone defense.

 

[TheRainMaker]

There was a report that Caserio was also on board with taking Harry, and he got a big promotion from the Texans a couple years later anyway. We also don't know that the scouts graded Harry poorly, just (reportedly) that he wasn't their favorite WR available.

I suspect that Deebo, at least, was graded higher. When you consider that the Patriots could have had Deebo AND AJ Brown/Hardman/Metcalf/Diontae Johnson and the fact that one of the biggest factors in losing Brady was the lack of WRs, and that the Patrist had to fritter (mostly) away a ton of FA money to try to correct the problem (leaving them with very little cap room for years to come) then you can make a good case for 2019 being the worst Patriots draft ever...of course there were a ton of appalling bad draft before Parcells and between Parcells and BB.

This is what I consistently saw prior to the draft:

Tier 1: Hollywood Brown and Metcalf
Tier 2: Samuel and AJ Brown
Tier 3: Harry

All were projected 1st rounders. However, I heard the day of the draft Harry was rising draft boards.

 

[Ring 6]

You're too hung up on the inflammatory word "defy".
Tabloids always opt for sensationalism and "defy" is far more provocative than "ignore" or ""dismiss"

Getting past semantics, the point remains clear: Bill's autocratic style negatively affected drafting.

Defy describes the point being made. A different word gives totally different meaning.
Belichick has done a very good job drafting, so his style would seem to help matters.

 

[Ring 6]

Your response would suggests that you have an inside line at Patriots HQ, but the vulgarity suggests otherwise...although I suspect that BB and others at HQ get really annoyed by the media and fan forums so maybe Ring 6 is an outlet for their venting. So my crackpot theory is that Ring 6 works for the Patriots organization in some capacity and is a loyal BB fan. Nothing wrong with that...we all love BB, it is just that his drafting is a, ah, a bit off.

I know that Felger was here (named Spanky-something or other) after we started picking on him. When I pointed out tha Spanky was probably Felger himself, he dropped off the map.

No I just understand that the way things work is not that scouts have a meeting and choose a pick and get gm either makes it or defies them.
You don’t have to be inside the room to possess common sense.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

No I just understand that the way things work is not that scouts have a meeting and choose a pick and get gm either makes it or defies them.
You don’t have to be inside the room to possess common sense.

The scouts must rank each prospect for each position. Then at some point before the draft all the positions are combined into a a Big Board, and that is where it must get really hairy since how to you say, order WRs against, say, OGs? And then you must look at the needs and trends for other teams so you can try to predict who they will pick in order to decide if you should move up or down. Those needs may shift as the draft progresses.

 

[Ring 6]

The scouts must rank each prospect for each position. Then at some point before the draft all the positions are combined into a a Big Board, and that is where it must get really hairy since how to you say, order WRs against, say, OGs? And then you must look at the needs and trends for other teams so you can try to predict who they will pick in order to decide if you should move up or down. Those needs may shift as the draft progresses.

The scouts give evaluations of players. Scout don’t make picks. Scouts don’t tell the decision maker who to draft and get defied.
A scouts job is to evaluate a player and give insight to the person making the decision which that person evaluates alongside other information.

 

[captain stone]

Who gave Groh “negative reviews”?

Everyone who was there.

 

[Ring 6]

Everyone who was there.

So you made it up?