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[BaconGrundleCandy]

@BaconGrundleCandy

Don't know if you managed to follow our DL discussion here but one position i feel most certain atm they will Draft is DT.

Since Godchaux is paid to play for 2y & Anderson cheap as you go i feel they might go for 1-5T rather than big nose in early rounds.
Maybe a flyer on one of the big noses in 7th, UDFA.

Have you thought already about this?

Watched a bit of Togiai they met with and he could be there in the 3rd range, maybe eve later?
He could fit well & complement well with what they have on the roster..
Id still prefer Nixon, McNeill but #46 might be reserved for DB again

Togiai or Wilson or somebody else for you in the 3rd? Osa?


btw - do you think Adams can turn it around here?

I have and honestly they would be going the multiple route > NT, at least early on. 3rd Round I'm hoping to see Bobby Brown, Tufele, Togiai, Shelvin, Tuipulotu, McNeill roughly in that order. Switch McNeill & Tuipulotu. Then I'm picking off that list. Talent/Value. I'm thinking 3 or 4 might be there, hopefully.

I mean I loved him coming out. Underwhelming for sure but he's been injured as well. I definitely think this is a great spot for him. Honestly not sure if he'll make the roster we know how this goes lol. But I do think this is a great fit. On & off the field. At least imo he's a fit mentally, off the field here which is like 90% of the battle

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Or maybe one of your WFT DTs comes here after all @BaconGrundleCandy

Maybe not Allen or Payne but Settle for Harry could be in play..




Showed up in front of BB..

Harry & a 5th for Settle, 3rd for Payne or 2nd for Allen and our team gets a lot better instantly if secondary stays intact. Draft for draft or value on defense. Get some speed on offense and OL depth if we're not going QB.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Harry & a 5th for Settle, 3rd for Payne or 2nd for Allen and our team gets a lot better instantly if secondary stays intact. Draft for draft or value on defense. Get some speed on offense and OL depth if we're not going QB.

If we are not going QB early and the blue chip player are likely gone, we gotta trade down maybe even acquire 2022 draft ammu to get a QB there. Trade down with Cleveland/Baltimore and get a first next year if that's possible from trade chart value.

 

[Mack Herron]

 

[50-yard-line]

Harry & a 5th for Settle, 3rd for Payne or 2nd for Allen and our team gets a lot better instantly if secondary stays intact. Draft for draft or value on defense. Get some speed on offense and OL depth if we're not going QB.

If the Pats want to move around in the draft, what are the possibilities of younger players they may trade?

Keane or Asiasi, for example. Seems like they've added so many vets, some of the last three draft classes might be leaving.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Well I guess the Harry with a Pick to WFT for Payne/Allen is off the table now. What do you think?

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

If the Pats want to move around in the draft, what are the possibilities of younger players they may trade?

Keane or Asiasi, for example. Seems like they've added so many vets, some of the last three draft classes might be leaving.

I don't see many tbh. Harry & Keene (unless he really craves out a role I don't many reps or targets) are obvious ones. I wouldn't be surprised to see one go.

 

[long distance]

With White and Guy coming home and two position we speculated about being addressed id guess this concludes FA part 1.
The core of the 2021 roster is set - so much so that Draft becomes almost an afterthought (esp. for those not obsessed with QB)

As @micronin127 already mentioned, the rest of the way to mini-camp will be about churning the bottom of the roster, finding some minimum vet depth pieces that could work well in TC and possibly further enhance competition that already looks to be fierce.

Pats will enter this second phase with Cap Space still above 10M (Guy&White incl). They are still in the top half of the league with by far most players signed - 79. (ATL f.e. only have 49). That is before any restructures, extensions or significant cuts.

While most of the FA work is done - they are still sitting pretty to jump at any opportunity that presents itself

 

[The Brandon Five]

With White and Guy coming home and two position we speculated about being addresses id guess this concludes FA part 1.
The core of the 2021 roster is set - so much so that Draft becomes almost an afterthought (esp. for those not obsessed with QB)

As @micronin127 already mentioned, the rest of the way to mini-camp will be about churning the bottom of the roster, finding some minimum vet depth pieces that could work well in TC and possibly further enhance competition that already looks to be fierce.

Pats will enter this second phase with Cap Space still above 10M (Guy&White incl). They are still sitting pretty in the top half of the league with by far most players signed - 79. (ATL f.e. only have 49). That is before any restructures, extensions or significant cuts.

While most of the FA work is done - they are still sitting pretty to jump at any opportunity that presents itself

Alright, just need to get it down to $8.9 milion by training camp and championship!

 

[luuked]

As @micronin127 already mentioned, the rest of the way to mini-camp will be about churning the bottom of the roster, finding some minimum vet depth pieces that could work well in TC and possibly further enhance competition that already looks to be fierce.

This might end up being one of the most competitive camps -- and 53 men rosters -- we have experienced in the BB era. From a big picture view I don't see how FA could have gone any better.

 

[long distance]

79 players on the roster.
Looking at position depths and number of players Pats usually carry to TC we can expect some next moves.

There are 10 DTs on the roster 7 usually make it to TC - so id expect at least 3 of Barnett, Thurman, Murray and Spence to be released shortly.
Releasing Spence would create c. 0.4M cap space.

There are 2 undermanned positions where new additions before the Draft are likely - IOL and CB.
Id expect addition of one IOL and one CB (vet min territory) to solidify depth before Draft.

Looking at IOL remaining still some solid experienced depth options: Shatley, Ifedi, Schofield, Reed, Larsen, Haeg, Easton, Lamp.
Bringing back Eluemunor would make a lot of sense, Fleming still hanging out there as well.

@CB/DB still plenty of options out there. Pats reportedly re-opened talks with JMC. Plenty of options still out there.
Nothing would please me more at this point that taking a flyer on Malik Hooker though. Harmon still out there too.


______________________________________________________________________________

QB (3-4) - 1Newton (32, 2021, $5.4), 4Stidham (25, 2022, $0.8), 8Dolegala (24,futures)

RB (6-7) - 26Michel* (26, 2021+1, $3), 37D.Harris (24, 2022, $1), 28White (29,2021,$2.5), 42JJ.Taylor (23, 2022, $0,8), 38Bolden* (31, 2021, $2),

FB (2) - 47Johnson* (26, ERFA, +1-*international), #Vitale (27, 2021, $1,3)

WR (9-11) - Agholor (28,2022,$7), 11Edelman* (35,2021,$6.1), Bourne, (26,2023,$3.1), 15Harry (23, 2022+1, $2,8), 16Meyers (24, 2021, $0,9),
80Olszewski* (24, 2021, $0,9), 19Zuber (24, futures), 13D.Smith (29, futures), 17Wilkerson (24, futures)

TE (6-7) - Smith (26,2024,$5.7), Henry (26,2023,$6.8), 86Asiasi (24,2023,$1), 44Keene (22,2023,$1), 83LaCosse* (29,2021,1.5$)

OT (6) - 76Wynn (25,2021,$3.6), Brown (28,2021,$7.6), 75Herron (25,2023,$0,8), 77Cajuste (25,2022,$1), 74Cunningham (26,2021,$0,9)
OG (6) - 69Mason (28,2023,$9.8), 71Onwenu™ (23,2023,$0,8), 68Toran (G,25,2021,$0,8), 64Reynolds (G,25,futures)
OC (3) - 60Andrews (29,2024, $), Karras (29, 2021, $), 68M.Martin (C/LG,27,2021,$0.9)


DL (7) - Godchaux (27,2022,$4), 93Guy (31, $4.3), Anderson, (30,2022,$2,7), 98C.Davis (29,2022,$1.9), 99Cowart (25,2022,$0,9), Adams (26,2021, $)
52Spence (29,2021,$1.2), 76M.Barnett (24,2022,$0,8) 92Thurman (26,futures), 97Murray (24,futures)

ED (7) - Judon (29,2024,6.4), 50Winovich* (26,2022,$1.1), 53Uche* (23,2023,$1.2), 91Wise* (27,2024,$3.3), 96Bower (26,2021,$0,9), 43Berry (24,2021,$0.8),

LB (7) - 54Hightower (31,2021,$12.5/10), 53Van Noy (30,2022,$4.4), 51Bentley* (25,2021,$1), 58Jennings* (24,2023,$1), McMillan (24 )
59Hall (24,2021,$0.8)

S (7) - 32D.McCourty* (34,2021,$11.2), 21Phillips* (29,2021,$3.5), 35Dugger* (25,2023,$1.9), 23Mills (27,2024,4.6$), 41Bryant* (23,2022,$0.9)

CB (9-11) - 24Gilmore (31,2021,$16.3), 27JC.Jackson (25,2021,RFA), 31J.Jones* (28,2022,$7.1), 33Williams* (23,2022,$1.8), 45M.Jackson (24,2021,$0.8)
38Virgin (27,2021,$0.9), 39Ross (24,futures)

ST - 7Bailey (24,2022,$0.9), 49Cardona (29,2022,$1.1), 6Folk (36, 2021, 1.6$), 9Aguayo (27,futures)
18Slater (WR,36,2021,$3), 36King (LB,28,2021,$1.4), 29Bethel (SS,31,2023, $), 22Cody Davis (FS,32,2022, $), Reynolds (LB,30, )

 

[long distance]

@ ROSTER BALANCE

ROSTER BALANCE

At the moment Pats not only have uncharacteristically many starting positions to fill but glaringly unbalanced roster in terms of age. That is one thing that is generally overlooked but is essential imo; having players in their prime on long term deals = sound roster & cap.

Of 62 players currently under contract only 7 are in their prime (27-30) and only one of them is a starter - Mason + two regulars/rotational (J.Jones, Phillips) (im not including very uncertain players like opt-outs that never played a snap for NE). 8 players are well over 30 and the rest are kids many of them not having even one full year in the process.

This is combination of poor Draft classes over last several yrs & relative cap constraints & some FA misses as well. From 2013-2016 (2nd contract/prime yrs) - only Mason and Cardona are still on the roster. Keeping home grown talent is not always easy but is essential to have it to some extent as important part of the core of your roster. They will probably bring Andrews back, maybe Wise and White but it still wont be the home core you'd like.

Thats another reason why I would expect loading on those medium contracts to bring in as many solid young vets in their prime.
If this is a rebuild - and i think it is more than normally under BB - some larger selection process should be part of it.

You can bring in a lot of solid young vets to compete in this yr and also compete for the future on this team even if you just go down 1 tier.


BTW - I would also expect trading some draft picks away bc they need young veterans much more then 10 new drafted rookies..

At the beginning of this journey i shared a few GM thoughts about importance of roster balance especially in terms of age and home core.

One of the things i was most happy to see is they addressed exactly these two issues. I expected they would address the age balance not only bc of need but the opportunity this low market presented (although i was wondering how many players would be willing to sign long-term deals for the same reason). I was more sceptical about keeping home core mostly bc there was not that much to keep re starting positions. As we can see now, they did took care of this as well by adding former players as FA.

25 total players were added so far - 21 of them are in their prime (or entering)!
14 of them are starters or regular rotational players in rotational positions.
12 are signed on multiple yr deals in a market where some 3/4 of deals are for 1y only.

As mentioned earlier they also managed to solidify and enhance home prime core by returning 11 own FA (UFA+(E)RFA)
and adding 3 former Pats (Brown, KVN, Karras).


This roster went from unhealthy predominant combo of young developing players (1st contract) & old vets (over 30) - that was one of the problems of last season - to a well balanced core of predominantly prime vets in just one week of FA.

And what looked like a new team with tons of new faces in the firs 2 days of FA is now looking as nice balance of home and new core players.

-.-

 

[long distance]

Want to re-live this special FA? Here nice chronology by Reiss with some interesting bits:

How the New England Patriots spent $159.6 million over nine days to overhaul their roster

The Patriots shocked the NFL by throwing big money at big names in free agency. Here's an inside look at how it played out and why they did it.

www.espn.com

The most interesting thing was this.

“After a quiet weekend, it was time for a free-agent barrage unlike any other. Belichick, recently promoted personnel man Dave Ziegler, fellow personnel exec Eliot Wolf and special assistant Matt Patricia essentially formed a four-man blitz, talking with agents and players to split up negotiating, sales pitches and contract responsibilities.“

We learned before that Matty P is signing the contracts which confirmed that his return to the Patriots will be in a different role. Being an essential part of core FA exec team (and id guess Draft as well) confirms his return is to solidify FO after loss of Caserio. (It was originally reported that his role should be in players evaluation field, research).

It is interesting that none of the new FA additions came from DET.
Of the 14 new additions 6 came from LV and MIA (3 each) and one from TEN, LAC, SF, NYJ, GB, BAL, PHI, ATL.

 

[venecol]

We learned before that Matty P is signing the contracts which confirmed that his return to the Patriots will be in a different role. Being an essential part of core FA exec team (and id guess Draft as well) confirms his return is to solidify FO after loss of Caserio. (It was originally reported that his role should be in players evaluation field, research).

It is interesting that none of the new FA additions came from DET.
Of the 14 new additions 6 came from LV and MIA (3 each) and one from TEN, LAC, SF, NYJ, GB, BAL, PHI, ATL.

God damn, this makes perfect sense. Fat Matt treated FAcy like an all you can eat buffet.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

79 players on the roster.
Looking at position depths and number of players Pats usually carry to TC we can expect some next moves.

There are 10 DTs on the roster 7 usually make it to TC - so id expect at least 3 of Barnett, Thurman, Murray and Spence to be released shortly.
Releasing Spence would create c. 0.4M cap space.

There are 2 undermanned positions where new additions before the Draft are likely - IOL and CB.
Id expect addition of one IOL and one CB (vet min territory) to solidify depth before Draft.

Looking at IOL remaining still some solid experienced depth options: Shatley, Ifedi, Schofield, Reed, Larsen, Haeg, Easton, Lamp.
Bringing back Eluemunor would make a lot of sense, Fleming still hanging out there as well.

@CB/DB still plenty of options out there. Pats reportedly re-opened talks with JMC. Plenty of options still out there.
Nothing would please me more at this point that taking a flyer on Malik Hooker though. Harmon still out there too.


______________________________________________________________________________

QB (3-4) - 1Newton (32, 2021, $5.4), 4Stidham (25, 2022, $0.8), 8Dolegala (24,futures)

RB (6-7) - 26Michel* (26, 2021+1, $3), 37D.Harris (24, 2022, $1), 28White (29,2021,$2.5), 42JJ.Taylor (23, 2022, $0,8), 38Bolden* (31, 2021, $2),

FB (2) - 47Johnson* (26, ERFA, +1-*international), #Vitale (27, 2021, $1,3)

WR (9-11) - Agholor (28,2022,$7), 11Edelman* (35,2021,$6.1), Bourne, (26,2023,$3.1), 15Harry (23, 2022+1, $2,8), 16Meyers (24, 2021, $0,9),
80Olszewski* (24, 2021, $0,9), 19Zuber (24, futures), 13D.Smith (29, futures), 17Wilkerson (24, futures)

TE (6-7) - Smith (26,2024,$5.7), Henry (26,2023,$6.8), 86Asiasi (24,2023,$1), 44Keene (22,2023,$1), 83LaCosse* (29,2021,1.5$)

OT (6) - 76Wynn (25,2021,$3.6), Brown (28,2021,$7.6), 75Herron (25,2023,$0,8), 77Cajuste (25,2022,$1), 74Cunningham (26,2021,$0,9)
OG (6) - 69Mason (28,2023,$9.8), 71Onwenu™ (23,2023,$0,8), 68Toran (G,25,2021,$0,8), 64Reynolds (G,25,futures)
OC (3) - 60Andrews (29,2024, $), Karras (29, 2021, $), 68M.Martin (C/LG,27,2021,$0.9)


DL (7) - Godchaux (27,2022,$4), 93Guy (31, $4.3), Anderson, (30,2022,$2,7), 98C.Davis (29,2022,$1.9), 99Cowart (25,2022,$0,9), Adams (26,2021, $)
52Spence (29,2021,$1.2), 76M.Barnett (24,2022,$0,8) 92Thurman (26,futures), 97Murray (24,futures)

ED (7) - Judon (29,2024,6.4), 50Winovich* (26,2022,$1.1), 53Uche* (23,2023,$1.2), 91Wise* (27,2024,$3.3), 96Bower (26,2021,$0,9), 43Berry (24,2021,$0.8),

LB (7) - 54Hightower (31,2021,$12.5/10), 53Van Noy (30,2022,$4.4), 51Bentley* (25,2021,$1), 58Jennings* (24,2023,$1), McMillan (24 )
59Hall (24,2021,$0.8)

S (7) - 32D.McCourty* (34,2021,$11.2), 21Phillips* (29,2021,$3.5), 35Dugger* (25,2023,$1.9), 23Mills (27,2024,4.6$), 41Bryant* (23,2022,$0.9)

CB (9-11) - 24Gilmore (31,2021,$16.3), 27JC.Jackson (25,2021,RFA), 31J.Jones* (28,2022,$7.1), 33Williams* (23,2022,$1.8), 45M.Jackson (24,2021,$0.8)
38Virgin (27,2021,$0.9), 39Ross (24,futures)

ST - 7Bailey (24,2022,$0.9), 49Cardona (29,2022,$1.1), 6Folk (36, 2021, 1.6$), 9Aguayo (27,futures)
18Slater (WR,36,2021,$3), 36King (LB,28,2021,$1.4), 29Bethel (SS,31,2023, $), 22Cody Davis (FS,32,2022, $), Reynolds (LB,30, )

With a Wonderlic of 17 I am not sure BB will take him.

 

[captain stone]

With a Wonderlic of 17 I am not sure BB will take him.

Is a Wonderlic of 17 that low for a CB?

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Is a Wonderlic of 17 that low for a CB?

I think Hooker would be a FS replacement for D Mac. I think BB wants a higher Wonderlic for his defensive MOF players.

 

[micronin127]

Maybe a veteran minimum RB who can catch passes. James Conner is only 26 years old.
Maybe bring back another of our own FAs. Jermaine Eleumunor is also only 26 years old.

Trimming players because we signed better players is an exercise as the 90-man roster limit will get in the way eventually.

Trading players with some value to either improve our draft picks (pick swaps) or to get additional picks is good business leading up to the draft to maximize the amount of draft capital we take into the draft. N'Keal Harry among others who have yet to make a leap in their development could net us something (e.g. a 4th rounder or a pick swap 3rd rounder for a 4th rounder plus Harry).

Eventually teams that are strapped for cash will try to fill holes in the draft. Rookie players usually aren't ready to play right away, so a team with a hole at say OT that uses a 3rd round pick on an OT usually discovers that they still need an OT. Patriots have lots of depth and could use it later this summer to extract some 2022 draft picks out of teams that discover their kids aren't ready to play.

The best kind of depth is deep depth. Let's keep signing valuable veterans.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Deleted - duplicate