Gilmore traded to Carolina

[Pats2000]

He was DPOY in 2019. I think a 1 or 2 was for sure on the table at the start of FA in 2020.

Bill traded Seymour when he was 30 for #1 which turned into Mayo. We really need to him to start GMing that way again. The problem is he has lost his draft hand for some time now.

I'm sure BB knew that Gilmore was going to get that hurt and then in the middle of an injury on the wrong side of 30 start demanding top CB money, without ever seeing him on the field.

 

[Nehalem]

He was DPOY in 2019. I think a 1 or 2 was for sure on the table at the start of FA in 2020.

Bill traded Seymour when he was 30 for #1 which turned into Mayo. We really need to him to start GMing that way again. The problem is he has lost his draft hand for some time now.

In retrospect I think it would be interesting to know WTF BB was thinking during the 2020 offseason.

The franchising of Thuney and not trading Gilmore look really bad at this point. We could have had maybe an additional what $30m in cap space and an extra 1st rounder.

Did he really think that Jarrett Stidham was capable of providing say average QB play in 2020, and so keeping those players would make the Patriots competitive?

 

[50-yard-line]

Let me clarify that I don’t believe Bill Belichick is an idiot, or a fool, or that I know 1/50th as much about football as him. What I’m suggesting, again, is that for some reason the organization has become dysfunctional. I don’t know why. I don’t know how. I’ve suggested that lack of checks/balances and outsiders to challenge the groupthink could be at play. Maybe they’ve adopted a contrarian attitude to common sense decisions or their self-confidence has reached a level of delusion. I don’t know any of this. Maybe it’s many reasons.

But it‘s clear that the organization was dysfunctional from roughly 2017-19 and likely beyond, with power struggles between players (Brady, Gronkowski) and the coach/GM (Belichick.). Guerrero and the training staff. They had a scam artist (Easterby) move up the ranks. They had an internal QB controversy (Brady/Jimmy). They had all the controversy of SB52. They had their company man, Brady, venting in an interview. Their Hall of Fame tight end retiring and opting for WWE over playing for them. Kraft’s scandal. The AB decision, where Bill and Bob appeared to be at odds. There were lots of rumors about why McDaniels reneged with the Colts and what he was promised. The coach’s son, seemingly a moron, has moved way up the ranks, while they’ve lost a lot of coaches: Flores, Judge, Scar, along with Adams and a ton of assistants.

They won the Superbowl played in January, 2017, lost the Superbowl played in 2018, and won the Superbowl played in 2019.

I mean, seriously. So, after that February, 2019 SB, you had a team full of guys who had played more games, longer season, grueling pressure for three straight years. And a team full of guys very likely a bit less hungry, because that's how humans operate. You also, for 3 straight years, had FAs who were going to get ABOVE market, as SB FAs almost always do (EDIT: and coaches!). It also means that for 3 straight years (and really, for 5, rolling in 2014 and 15), you had very deep VETERAN rosters, because that's what SB teams usually have. This also means lower draft picks, round after round (not counting the stolen ones).

Not a lot of rookies start on SB teams.

There's a price to pay for 5 years of that kind of NFL dominance, individually and as a team. Loosen the leash a bit here on BB and the Pats.

2019 fell apart with Gordon, AB, Sanu getting hurt, Brady having clearly had enough. They were still a playoff team, which many cities would kill for. They were trying to squeeze out one last run, but it fell apart - Gronk retiring before the season AFTER any half-decent replacement could be found; Gordon falling apart after 6 games; Antonio Brown bringing his freak show into town and completely screwing up in short order; Sanu getting hurt right after coming here.

2020 was a complete reset, more than typical with the opt-outs. It was all about cash, Yes, I think, in hindsight, that Thuney and Gilmore were errors. BB wanted to keep Thuney, but he broke the bank with a desperate SB favorite. Gilmore is a different story, as I believe BB was hoping to got another deal done with him and would have paid it if he held up to 2018 performance levels and hadn't gotten hurt.

The reset is over. That's why they brought in a new core group, hoping to rebuild that middle class hollowed by the 5-year run. And now have added the new centerpiece, who's a rookie.

If they're under .500 this year, that'll be disappointing. If they can't get to playoff contention next year, then it's time to think about shortening that leash. I think this is a pretty good football team that needs to correct a few things that seem correctable. Which is kind of remarkable given the turnover.

 

[203Pat]

From what I've seen, Herbert has more physical tools, but Mac processes things faster. With that said, Herbert was offensive ROY. Mac has the same chance to become offensive ROY.

Mac may process things well so far but Herbert was already processing things like a veteran QB a handful of games into his NFL career. The Saints game last year he made some ridiculous plays. The video below the first play shows a zero blitz with a free rusher in his face. He handles a bad snap, immediately rolls out and avoids the rusher, and fires a 30 yard laser on the run to Keenan Allen for a TD. That is a ton of processing and Mac is nowhere near that level right now. I like Mac but I would give up anything to get Herbert and wouldn't think twice about kicking Mac to the curb for him.

 

[Kontradiction]

Congrats. My wife and I are halfway where you are with your spouse and we go through the same. But this analogy doesn't work.

The more appropriate analogy would be the mom leaves the dad after all those years for another man, and the kids are mad at the dad for the mom leaving. I see a lot of hurt feelings because of the mom shagging up with another fella with the Brady boys.

 

[203Pat]

Congrats. My wife and I are halfway where you are with your spouse and we go through the same. But this analogy doesn't work.

The more appropriate analogy would be the mom leaves the dad after all those years for another man, and the kids are mad at the dad for the mom leaving. I see a lot of hurt feelings because of the mom shagging up with another fella with the Brady boys.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Mac may process things well so far but Herbert was already processing things like a veteran QB a handful of games into his NFL career. The Saints game last year he made some ridiculous plays. The video below the first play shows a zero blitz with a free rusher in his face. He handles a bad snap, immediately rolls out and avoids the rusher, and fires a 30 yard laser on the run to Keenan Allen for a TD. That is a ton of processing and Mac is nowhere near that level right now. I like Mac but I would give up anything to get Herbert and wouldn't think twice about kicking Mac to the curb for him.

Herbert had better weapons around him last year including Keenan Allen, Guyton, and Ekelar. Herbert will be a great player. I can't help but think that teams like the Lions, Giants, and Dolphins all passed on him when they could have used him.

 

[1960Pats]

It will be interesting to see if he plays again this year and if he sucks or not. So since Judon will become a free agent in three years should we be trading him this year?

No. They should pay him.

 

[amfootball]

In retrospect I think it would be interesting to know WTF BB was thinking during the 2020 offseason.

The franchising of Thuney and not trading Gilmore look really bad at this point. We could have had maybe an additional what $30m in cap space and an extra 1st rounder.

Did he really think that Jarrett Stidham was capable of providing say average QB play in 2020, and so keeping those players would make the Patriots competitive?

I agree. Ice said the same thing a few pages back. It was obvious we were not taking a flying on 2020 when FA began and the draft. We resigned or extended our vets and were rolling with Stidham. He was THE guy until we signed Newton on June 28. That is kind of when everything changed I think internally for the Pats. In terms of the narrative though? Newton was going to get more out of the offense than Brady because he would not freeze out the young WRs and his charming personality would win over the locker room unlike sad Tom. I mean it is funny to go back and look what people were saying. Most everyone had us as a playoff team vying with the Bills for the division.

I think when we lost the Buffalo game to go 2-5, Bill went on with radio with Weiss and said it was a reset year due to the cap and winning all those SBs and Covid. He basically became excuse Bill and the entire narrative was rewritten/recast.

 

[venecol]

Takes a while to dig out from having to put the corpse of Cam Newton out as QB.

To see how fast things can turn around.

Justin Herbert started his career in SD 2-9. Then won the last 4 games last year, and is 3-1 this year.

Didn't LAC change coaches in between? Lol
Look, I'm not saying BB needs to go. IMO this was always a 3 year re-build after 2019, but it just hasn't looked promising (despite Mac looking good) the last two seasons. A lot of head scratching moves, such as signing and re-signing Cam, overpaying for average free agents (except Judon), missing on drafts (despite Mac and a few others), handling of veteran contracts (Thuney, Gilly), etc.
There just seems to be so many mistakes being made on and off the field that are so uncharacteristic of the Patriots. I get that this is a new era, that's why I don't bother comparing anything we do now with the previous era (Pats have come back from 1-3 to win a SB, etc.).

Let's just hope BB can somehow fix the OL issues, which is the main concern I have, and the run defense. It's maddening to think that after all the money they spent that we still can't stop the run (122 ypg) effectively. Maybe Collins helps here?

 

[1960Pats]

Congrats. My wife and I are halfway where you are with your spouse and we go through the same. But this analogy doesn't work.

The more appropriate analogy would be the mom leaves the dad after all those years for another man, and the kids are mad at the dad for the mom leaving. I see a lot of hurt feelings because of the mom shagging up with another fella with the Brady boys.

I can't speak for the Brady Boys, but I can speak for this one. I watch sports to see the players play and I like my teams to have the best players. I'll never get over the dumping of Brady but it doesn't mean I'm not a fan of the team anymore. That's the analogy.

In your example I see it as the mom and dad split up and the kids still love them both but still miss the one who lost custody. Call it Mrs Doubtfan.

 

[1960Pats]

LOL. Wut?

I eventually figured it out.

 

[Ring 6]

From what Bedard said he will not play for more money in Carolina but Carolina are entertaining the possibility of an extension next year if he plays well. And Bill was not entertaining an extension next year and was asking Gilmore to rework his contract to give them flexibility.

he talks about it at the 7:02 mark

There is no extension next year. He will be a free agent.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

There is no extension next year. He will be a free agent.

Not necessarily. There is no extension NOW. However, both sides left open the possibility of a long-term deal before the season ends.

 

[condon84]

I can't speak for the Brady Boys, but I can speak for this one. I watch sports to see the players play and I like my teams to have the best players. I'll never get over the dumping of Brady but it doesn't mean I'm not a fan of the team anymore. That's the analogy.

In your example I see it as the mom and dad split up and the kids still love them both but still miss the one who lost custody. Call it Mrs Doubtfan.

I read a lot of angst from those dudes

I eventually figured it out.

I didn't think it was that hard to follow lol.

 

[1960Pats]

Ty Laws cousin’s barber?

Speaking of Law, the latest I heard is that he's been helping Gilmore on how to handle his situation. It sounds possible but I have no source other than weei.

 

[captain stone]

Last year before season started. We knew last year was a goner with the amount of dead cap hits we had.

I would've been more than fine with dealing him as late as Trade Deadline Day last year... but no later.

 

[1960Pats]

I read a lot of angst from those dudes



I didn't think it was that hard to follow lol.

I have to disagree. I think the most critical fans are those who look at Bill the GM. They have a decent point also.

 

[irishfanatic]

They won the Superbowl played in January, 2017, lost the Superbowl played in 2018, and won the Superbowl played in 2019.

I mean, seriously. So, after that February, 2019 SB, you had a team full of guys who had played more games, longer season, grueling pressure for three straight years. And a team full of guys very likely a bit less hungry, because that's how humans operate. You also, for 3 straight years, had FAs who were going to get ABOVE market, as SB FAs almost always do (EDIT: and coaches!). It also means that for 3 straight years (and really, for 5, rolling in 2014 and 15), you had very deep VETERAN rosters, because that's what SB teams usually have. This also means lower draft picks, round after round (not counting the stolen ones).

Not a lot of rookies start on SB teams.

There's a price to pay for 5 years of that kind of NFL dominance, individually and as a team. Loosen the leash a bit here on BB and the Pats.

2019 fell apart with Gordon, AB, Sanu getting hurt, Brady having clearly had enough. They were still a playoff team, which many cities would kill for. They were trying to squeeze out one last run, but it fell apart - Gronk retiring before the season AFTER any half-decent replacement could be found; Gordon falling apart after 6 games; Antonio Brown bringing his freak show into town and completely screwing up in short order; Sanu getting hurt right after coming here.

2020 was a complete reset, more than typical with the opt-outs. It was all about cash, Yes, I think, in hindsight, that Thuney and Gilmore were errors. BB wanted to keep Thuney, but he broke the bank with a desperate SB favorite. Gilmore is a different story, as I believe BB was hoping to got another deal done with him and would have paid it if he held up to 2018 performance levels and hadn't gotten hurt.

The reset is over. That's why they brought in a new core group, hoping to rebuild that middle class hollowed by the 5-year run. And now have added the new centerpiece, who's a rookie.

If they're under .500 this year, that'll be disappointing. If they can't get to playoff contention next year, then it's time to think about shortening that leash. I think this is a pretty good football team that needs to correct a few things that seem correctable. Which is kind of remarkable given the turnover.

Great Post imo.

 

[Nehalem]

Didn't LAC change coaches in between? Lol
Look, I'm not saying BB needs to go. IMO this was always a 3 year re-build after 2019, but it just hasn't looked promising (despite Mac looking good) the last two seasons. A lot of head scratching moves, such as signing and re-signing Cam, overpaying for average free agents (except Judon), missing on drafts (despite Mac and a few others), handling of veteran contracts (Thuney, Gilly), etc.
There just seems to be so many mistakes being made on and off the field that are so uncharacteristic of the Patriots. I get that this is a new era, that's why I don't bother comparing anything we do now with the previous era (Pats have come back from 1-3 to win a SB, etc.).

Let's just hope BB can somehow fix the OL issues, which is the main concern I have, and the run defense. It's maddening to think that after all the money they spent that we still can't stop the run (122 ypg) effectively. Maybe Collins helps here?

The Chargers first their head coach at the end of the season after winning the last 4 games in 2020