Giardi: Latest on Judon - Two sides remain "far, far, far apart"

[n1997y]

The excuses for not winning are stacking up and its only July.

Jonathan Kraft will taking over in the next 3 - 4 years anyway.

Jonathan has taken over already. This off season has his paw prints all over it.

Unless you meant on the sidelines? As HC? He won’t get his hand dirty like that.

But he’ll dump Mayo in the blink of an eye if he doesn’t deliver another Lombardi before Robert descends into senility.

 

[n1997y]

In that situation, you announce you're letting the player find a trade and bring it back to you. Let Judon see what the market is really like out there for him. I don't know what it really is. I think he's underpaid, but I'm not sure how much another team is willing to give to him.

That’s what they should do.

I’m unconvinced the control freak running the show could swallow giving a player that power.

 

[Triumph]

Jonathan has taken over already. This off season has his paw prints all over it.

Unless you meant on the sidelines? As HC? He won’t get his hand dirty like that.

But he’ll dump Mayo in the blink of an eye if he doesn’t deliver another Lombardi before Robert descends into senility.

Mayo was a Bob Kraft hire.

The penny pinching during FA was all BK. Robyn Glasers transfer from Kraft Inc to the NEP Inc was all on the behest of Bob Kraft. Thunder has been very active since BB left as a little Jerry Jones. Folks in this thread have stated that Mayo wont last if the wins dont come because Thunder Kraft does not like to look bad.

 

[n1997y]

Because of the historical two decade run they gave us I'm willing to be lenient for one decade. They deserve that after all they gave us. They're halfway there.

You can give them a decade. Robert Kraft may not have another decade to do that.

 

[n1997y]

Seems the front office is doing their best to shoot themselves in the foot by not maximizing his trade value, nor negotiating with him at all.

Didn’t they make an offer to him?

Report I saw was that Judon prepared a draft contract as a proposal, presented it to them, and they didn’t respond to it.

Today I saw that the team claims they presented a proposal and Judon claims they’re lying, that they didn’t do what they told reporters they did.

 

[n1997y]

I think we can all agree here on that. I'd love to know what he's been offered as opposed to what he's seeking..

It seems he’s saying what he’s been offered is to play this year on his existing contract and hit free agency next year, when he’s a year older with more mileage on the tires.

 

[borg]

Matthew Judon says Patriots haven't offered him new contract

The Patriots got a deal done with defensive tackle Davon Godchaux on Wednesday, but they still have one defensive player unhappy about his contract situation.

www.nbcsports.com

 

[n1997y]

The Judon situation is pretty typical when players who are at the last part of the career who are still productive on the field. He is underpaid if you only look at this years salary vs. the multi year contract, including bonuses, etc.. Judon signed a market contract that allowed him to get more money sooner, with some lower salary years at the end. From his perspective it makes good sense to try to maximize his last years in the league, I just wish he was a bit more rational in his approach. Starting with hiring an agent to be the bad guy.

Generally agree. A big factor is that Judon’s next contract is likely to his last. He wants to get it done sooner rather than later. The team wants to do it later. Doing it their way takes millions out of his pocket.

 

[n1997y]

an AAV of $20m would put him in that 10-15 rank area for edge players.
most of them are under 30 yrs old.
Mack, Miller and a couple others are over.
if you are willing to get to $20m aav, it could lay out as this years base ($6.5m), + $8m sign bonus ++ incentives ($2m games played/$3m post season awards, sacks, etc)
next season is not guaranteed predicated on Judon getting to said incentives to $15m base and again $5m incentives.
thats an "announced" 2/$40m deal with incentives. the cost to the Pats this year is $8m (spread over 2 seasons) and $5m if Judon is lights out.
I accept that deal if I am the Pats. if Judon is looking for more, I pass and move on from him.

Something like that, maybe add a third year that is totally free to void (except dead cap from pro rata signing bonus). Why not?

 

[Real fan 02]

It seems he’s saying what he’s been offered is to play this year on his existing contract and hit free agency next year, when he’s a year older with more mileage on the tires.

Well. He got a bump last season. So judon may want to be paid among the top 10 pass rushers wich I'd say he is. That's upwards of 20 million. What if he was offered 10 and 10 million guaranteed for this season?.

 

[n1997y]

Well. He got a bump last season. So judon may want to be paid among the top 10 pass rushers wich I'd say he is. That's upwards of 20 million. What if he was offered 10 and 10 million guaranteed for this season?.

I think he’s looking for three years. He’s said he’d like to retire as a Patriot. Seems anything less than three makes that unlikely.

I’d think a deal like that with years two and three being heavy on performance based incentives and conditional guarantees could get it done.

 

[Real fan 02]

I think he’s looking for three years. He’s said he’d like to retire as a Patriot. Seems anything less than three makes that unlikely.

I’d think a deal like that with years two and three being heavy on performance based incentives and conditional guarantees could get it done.

Agree here. I knew something was up when other players accepted contracts before judon did. By him going it alone explains everything. Because the organization has shown they will pay players.

I love judon but it's starting not to look good for him if he doesn't hire an agent. In other news it was good to see Godchaux get extended.. we will need him!

 

[Stu Pidassle]

I think he’s looking for three years. He’s said he’d like to retire as a Patriot. Seems anything less than three makes that unlikely.

I’d think a deal like that with years two and three being heavy on performance based incentives and conditional guarantees could get it done.

The contract you describe makes so much sense that I don't think that Judon is willing to sign that kind of deal. My guess is that he is looking for the guaranteed money the younger players are getting. This is where an agent would help Judon. I am afraid that the situation may be too far gone for him to stay.

 

[ahmed]

Yes, understand. That's a fair assessment. The uniqueness here is Mayo's been Judon's position coach and now he's his HC so the relationship is in place. I believe there is enough respect between these two men. Judon I'm sure regrets it. Judon's been a class across his whole time in NE. I won't hold that against him. Maybe it's time he moves on.. we'll miss him but you have to set a boundary as a head coach.

I am sure the fact Mayo was a player is also part of it. He is probably much more sympathetic to players than the average coach as a result. However, he needs to realize he is the boss and certain lines can never be crossed and expect to maintain team cohesion and discipline.

Judon bringing his contract to the practice field crosses that line in my opinion. Maybe Mayo can salvage the situation and keep Judon without losing at least a part of his authority but it is not worth the risk in my opinion. I was always critical of BB as too hard ass on players but this is one example I would be very supportive of his methods, either trade Judon or cut him. I would not take the risk of keeping him and hoping it won't impact the team.

 

[rkarp1]

I am sure the fact Mayo was a player is also part of it. He is probably much more sympathetic to players than the average coach as a result. However, he needs to realize he is the boss and certain lines can never be crossed and expect to maintain team cohesion and discipline.

Judon bringing his contract to the practice field crosses that line in my opinion. Maybe Mayo can salvage the situation and keep Judon without losing at least a part of his authority but it is not worth the risk in my opinion. I was always critical of BB as too hard ass on players but this is one example I would be very supportive of his methods, either trade Judon or cut him. I would not take the risk of keeping him and hoping it won't impact the team.

cutting Judon saves the team $6.7m in cap space, but that's really cutting off your nose.
he is an asset with value
the team should allow his agent to talk to other teams and find Judon's "real value". if Judon can come to an agreement with another team on the contract, the Pats should try to find common ground in a trade

 

[XLIX]

Judon had some nice plays during his time here but the bottom line is that we sucked with him so I am sure we can figure out a way to suck without him.

He would definitely be an asset on a good team looking to get better such as Detroit, SF or Miami. Just take what we can get and move on.

 

[Kasmir]

I said it much earlier in the offseason. We should’ve traded him. This season is a lost cause especially with Barmore out and now we have our superstar turning into a malcontent, having a hissy fit at training camp.

Great start to a new regime.

What a sh*t show.

Being out of market I've always relied on NFL+ to watch replays of every game. But now it's not even remotely worth $99/year to watch replays of this team losing. Canceled my renewal.

With New England fans so accustomed to victory, I would think this team will bleed fans uncontrollably if the losing continues. It's just not entertaining.

If and when they field a competitive team again I'll reconsider. Might not happen in my lifetime unfortunately -- I'm 71.

 

[TheRainMaker]

In Year 1, Judon was paid 20m which made him the highest paid DE/OLB based on cash paid. He earned it.

Year 2 he was paid $12m which based on his performance, made him certainly underpaid.

He wasn't the highest paid. He was 4th in cash in 2021. It's good, but it takes a nose dive after that. By the way, Trey Flowers got almost $29M in year 1. He averaged $18M per year which was signed 2 year prior when he was the Lions to Judon's $15M so far.

In Year 3 he was overpaid because he only played in 3.5 games and collected $14.2m.

That's the risk you take when signing players. Are you saying any player that gets injured is now overpaid? He was on pace for 17 sacks in 2023. He's been among the leagues best in sacking the QB since coming to NE. $14M is chump change for that type of potential production.

If you are looking purely at prior year performance, because he is pushing 32 and had a soft-tissue injury, Pats are rightfully hedging their bets on shelling out guaranteed money or bonuses.

If Judon is looking for anymore than a 2 year deal, then he's going to have to rethink that strategy.

The question is do you justify the contract based on player performance each year of it's term or over the life of it?

The life of Judon's contract shows that he is severely underpaid compared to his peers.

 

[Sect140]

How many years does he have left on his deal? I ask because last season he was disgruntled with his contract and they adjusted it and he’s disgruntled again.

 

[n1997y]

How many years does he have left on his deal? I ask because last season he was disgruntled with his contract and they adjusted it and he’s disgruntled again.

This season is the last season on his present deal. He will turn 33 early in training camp next season.

His next deal is likely his last chance at a decent contract. If he plays this season on his present contract he’d be a 33 year old free agent. Not a strong negotiating position. Getting an extension this year would be much better for him.